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[NF] mattering?

Scott N Denver

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A thought just came to me that I thought I'd post and get reactions to from fellow NF's, and potentially others: "Once upon a time I thought that I mattered, but now I don't."

My thoughts: 1) Like plenty of things, I don't feel like this is not 100% true, but 99% maybe???
2) There are like 6 billion+ people in this world.
3) Most people's lives don't have that much of a direct impact on too many others people's lives, and it seems like often those who try to have an impact on a lot of others get killed/assassinated
4) I deal with a lot of T's, many of whom aren't too interested in other people's emotional theatrics.
5) INFP's aren't known for their great socialness or for having large circles of friends or acquiantances
6) "It's not all about you"

Thoughts?
 

SpottingTrains

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Here's how I think of it:

What if everyone in the world thought how you are thinking right now :p ?

Take pride in what you do and everything else will follow.
 

/DG/

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What?! Of course you matter, silly. Here, I think you need one of these :hug:. It looks like you feel small and helpless in this world. Everyone makes a difference in the world. No matter how small, everyone contributes. Yes, even you. :)
 

Scott N Denver

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a largely equivalent phrasing would be: "I used to think that what I do matters, but now I don't"

I think part of it is this NFP-Fi-Ne idealism, and part of it is the reality that there are lots of people out there. I don't know how common of an NFP thing this is, but for me I often feel like at any given moment I could stop what I'm doing and talk to someone I just met about more or less anything and potentially co-create this super-deep-meaningful-inspiring-motivating, maybe even life-changing, conversation but I think most people aren't that open, aren't that interested, are too busy, etc. Not that all conversations would turn out that ?productive?, but...Yup, NFP Fi-Ne idealism for ya.

Related tangent: I wonder how many life coaches are NF's,FP's? Do NFJ's or NFP's comprise a larger percentage of life coaches???
 

Scott N Denver

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I think that when people are younger they often feel like they can help change things, but as you get older you see how limited in scope most the actions of any given individual usually are. Hmmmm, I didn't mean this thread as a disempowering thing, but for me its a "adjusting to reality/seeing things for how they actually are" thing. I think I read somewhere that one of the biggest problems for ENFJ's wanting to affect change is that societal change seems so hard and takes a long time. I also think I read advice for INFP's to the effect of: "things are the way they are for reasons, if you want to change them it will behoove you to first understand WHY they are the way that they are, then you can try to change them to something that you see as better."
 

thisGuy

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I think that when people are younger they often feel like they can help change things, but as you get older you see how limited in scope most the actions of any given individual usually are. Hmmmm, I didn't mean this thread as a disempowering thing, but for me its a "adjusting to reality/seeing things for how they actually are" thing. I think I read somewhere that one of the biggest problems for ENFJ's wanting to affect change is that societal change seems so hard and takes a long time. I also think I read advice for INFP's to the effect of: "things are the way they are for reasons, if you want to change them it will behoove you to first understand WHY they are the way that they are, then you can try to change them to something that you see as better."

thank god gandhi didnt take long to figure that one out...or india would still be under the british rule
 

Scott N Denver

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Coming to terms with the limited extent of one's personal sphere of influence

I should relabel this thread as "Coming to terms with the limited extent of one's personal sphere of influence."

Jack Hoban [American Shihan in Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, i.e. high level instructor in martial arts style I used to study] once talked about how when your younger you think you can help change the world, but as you get older you see that to even maintain things the way that they are [i.e. prevent backsliding] takes a lot of work and is rather an accomplishment.

INFP's aren't known for their realistic assessments of how "the real world" actually is :whistling: , but as I posted above:"things are the way they are for reasons, if you want to change them it will behoove you to first understand WHY they are the way that they are, then you can try to change them to something that you see as better."

I've heard it said that if one wants to be satisfied in life it is important to, amongst other things, have realistic expectations. Which, again, apparently INFP's are generally known for... :whistling: In short, lots of people tend to like us, but we only get to meet so many people!
 

BlackCat

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INFP's aren't known for their realistic assessments of how "the real world" actually is

Not so true of me.

But anyways in my opinion one of the greater moments of maturing in an NF's life is when they realize how much they don't matter in the world. I really just don't matter in the world... I've never really wanted to matter either. I've wanted to make a difference in people's lives... but never to truly matter. My purpose here is clear cut... to help people. But other than that? I could matter less. I'm one in 6 billion people. I can help a very small fraction of that and I'll be satisfied. I highly doubt I'll make a huge difference. Why should I want to matter? It's not so depressing, I don't see why it would be.
 

sculpting

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If you can make a difference in the day of one person in one place for even one second you have sparked a small amount of joy that would not have been there. If you could convince each person to this the world would be a happier, more wonderful place.

Keep moving and keep trying. But take a lesson from the INFJs and determine where to spend your focused time at. Dont waste it on folks who will not appreciate it.
 

Scott N Denver

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Not so true of me.

So noted. As phrased, I did not say that it did or did not apply to any specific INFP's, but it does seem to be a general trait that is associated with INFP's. I would like to think that it doesn't apply to me either, I guess like many things its a continuum more than a yes or no thing.

But anyways in my opinion one of the greater moments of maturing in an NF's life is when they realize how much they don't matter in the world. I really just don't matter in the world... I've never really wanted to matter either. I've wanted to make a difference in people's lives... but never to truly matter. My purpose here is clear cut... to help people. But other than that? I could matter less. I'm one in 6 billion people. I can help a very small fraction of that and I'll be satisfied. I highly doubt I'll make a huge difference. Why should I want to matter? It's not so depressing, I don't see why it would be.

I see your point about maturing, I'm not sure how I feel about it. You definitely have a point though, which quite possibly is the point that I started this thread about. Hearing [well, reading, really] it feels different than thinking it though.

I remember talking with an ENFP friend about living in a big city and one of the points she mentioned was that she felt freer because people weren't constantly watching her and she felt like she could do what she wanted how she wanted cuz no one else really cared one way or the other. A valid point. The exceedingly vast majority of people, NF and not, will have very little impact beyond a relatively small number of people. That's reality, deal with it. I think for me part of this comes from being a military brat, where there are some military people who do things and make decisions that determine whether people will live or die. Now that's impact! But most jobs are not-at-all that way! Even police and rescue jobs I don't think make life-or-death decisions too frequently.

Let me ask a question: I noticed, I believe it was on your blog, that you have interest in metaphysics. I don't know what kind(s), and I don't know what typical viewpoints are for different ?groups?, but I've come across a number of groups that basically said "you can do whatever you want as long as your willing to accept the consequences", which to me sorta had this "nothing is fundamentally important or driving" tone to it. Maybe spiritual evolution over a lot of lifetimes, but that wasn't stated in the same places as the comments above were. I'm curious if that may be playing into your view on this matter? FWIW, for example the Vajrayana [ie Tibetan Buddhist] has statements such as "There is nothing to do but remain in the view" in relation to Mahamudra and Dzogchen. Also, Zen says things like "our [as in the system of zen practice] purpose is to get people to recognise their original state, what they do afterwords is up to them". So I guess I can't disagree with the viewpoint that it doesn't ultimately matter. And yet, if you look at various Hindu saints for example, or the Buddha, or Lao Tzu, or others who came later, they do/did make a big point of helping others materially and/or "spiritually". Yes, it all might be dream actions by dream people in a dream world to affect dream impacts, but they are still [unattachedly] taking those dream actions!

And now its time to go read some about Mahamudra and Dzogchen! Dude, someone needs to make a "spiritual smiley", I think it should be a content-faced smiley with a halo above its head.
 

Scott N Denver

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There is also the peace corp and the like [americorp, teach for america, teach english in other countries, etc

Anyone have experiences with that, or heard from people who do?
 

Scott N Denver

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For me, the point of this thread as retitled by "Coming to terms with the limited extent of one's personal sphere of influence" relates to a reminder that one only has so much time and can't "do everything". I know this and think about what is important to me and make effort to focus on things. But, for whatever reasons, its like I can't hold onto that [i.e.e I forget it] and then I start getting these ridiculous ideas and then I have to come back to my senses and see those ridiculous thoughts as the ridiculous thoughts that they are. I wonder if this is a side-affect of spending too much time alone in front of a computer at work [I'm sure other people come up with much more bizarre thoughts under such circumstances!], or if I can somehow blame this on those INTJ's and their crazy non-realistic Ni scheming. You know guys, you can't ALL be secretly supreme-overlord-of-the-universe! Seriously though, I find being around lots of Ni rather unsettling/"feeling spacey"-inducing, particularly when its not somehow moderated by Fe.
 

souffle

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I didn't really read most of the thread very thouroughly, but I'm going to add a few thoughts of my own anyway.

Have you considered the idea quality over quantity? What's more important- what 'matters' more? Doing something that will have a slight, indirect impact on 1 million people, or being the significant other/parent/best friend to one person and having a huge, life-changing impact?

And anyway, that's one of the only ways you're going matter to/influence other people on your own. Large scale things, like helping to develop and feed third world countries, probably require a collective effort from many people. I guess you could get some personal satisfaction from simply having been part of the group that helped it happen- but being soley responsible for an event that changes millions of people's lives I'm thinking is impossible. Yes, it might be true that one person in a leadership position inspired a thousand others to take action, meaning without that person it wouldn't have happened- but then, without the 1000 people being inspired and taking action it also wouldn't have happened.

So.. how can one deal with this? I dunno, do what you can I s'pose, aim to have a positive effect on others, and knowing that you've done your best should matter to one person in particular- YOU! :)

There. I tried to make an interesting contribution. I hope I'm not out of my depth..
 

phoenity

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For me, the point of this thread as retitled by "Coming to terms with the limited extent of one's personal sphere of influence" relates to a reminder that one only has so much time and can't "do everything". I know this and think about what is important to me and make effort to focus on things. But, for whatever reasons, its like I can't hold onto that [i.e.e I forget it] and then I start getting these ridiculous ideas and then I have to come back to my senses and see those ridiculous thoughts as the ridiculous thoughts that they are. I wonder if this is a side-affect of spending too much time alone in front of a computer at work [I'm sure other people come up with much more bizarre thoughts under such circumstances!], or if I can somehow blame this on those INTJ's and their crazy non-realistic Ni scheming. You know guys, you can't ALL be secretly supreme-overlord-of-the-universe! Seriously though, I find being around lots of Ni rather unsettling/"feeling spacey"-inducing, particularly when its not somehow moderated by Fe.


In my opinion, it is a result of spending too much time in your head. The same happens to me when I spend too much time in my "mind".

Your first post shows that you are conscious of the difference between the reality created by your mind, and the reality lived by billions of other people.

I believe the key is finding balance between the two.

If you really have an innate need to matter, live in the real world, recognize the people and things that need you, and use your mind to figure out ways to make a difference.

This type of thinking is just a result of too much thinking and not enough doing.

Key to being conscious and happy is realizing that in the grand scheme of life, YOU don't matter to anyone else but you. Then with that mindset, all the things that you do to help others is then completely selfless.

But if you do those things with your goal being to "matter", then you're doing it for your own ego, not for others.
 

PeaceBaby

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I believe you make as much difference as you believe you can.

If you chew right to the granular centre of things, if you believe that there is a point to our existence, then your very existence proves you matter somehow in the whole grand mathematical equation of the cosmos.

Therefore, there's no such thing as not making a difference. Without you, the math changes. Different formula, different outcome.
 

Galusha

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What?! Of course you matter, silly. Here, I think you need one of these :hug:. It looks like you feel small and helpless in this world. Everyone makes a difference in the world. No matter how small, everyone contributes. Yes, even you. :)
just to pour a bucket of water on this thread, yes, everyone has and influence, because s/he exists to others. however, that's not the same as mattering. if you kill one ant out of a colony, the colony still survives. it's up to the individual to make him/herself matter, if that's what s/he wants.

oh, and just to include everyone, some people contribute by making the world a worse place. unfortunately, in day-to-day life, those are the ones who contribute the most.
 

Scott N Denver

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Warning: Ne brainstorming activated! Oh brother here we go :cheese:

My brainstorming on this matter has changed, again. This time onto more group/social areas. I think that we INF's can do really awesome with people one on one, but in groups its very hit or miss, and if we don't know a lot of people in the group the odds of a miss are much higher. Sometimes you hear the phrase "its like the rooms lights up when [person] walks in!" and I'm like "man, why can't I do that!!!" Maybe I can, but I'm pretty sure it hasn't happened yet. I think as INF's we are much better at having a group of people together and getting them to feel relaxed and comfortable than all revved and excited. I think its both important to see our current strengths, and to continue to learn and develop and grow. When I see people that are really good at something, I can definitely have a desire to emulate their skills. For me, when I see E_F_'s I often wish I could emulate their social enthusiasm and charm. At the same time, I've had those same E_F_'s tell me they wish they were better at some of my social/people skills. So its not like either group is lacking, but can't we have both???
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, as that saying goes. I'm not aiming for imitation, more like emulation.


And on another related note, INFP's are often referred to or described as "delightful." I remember when I was younger I could see that the things that I did and how I did them would bring smiles to peoples faces and joy to that moment of their lives. How NF right? I felt like I had a "social impact" that was clear and immediate. It didn't change the world or anything, but that little "bubble" of the world was apparently much happier! Maybe those were just a lot of FJ's and NFP's. Now I'm largely around other types of people, who are generally harder to impress and less emotionally expressive. So maybe I just feel like my efforts are rebuffed, ok no maybe there. But when I get around some other types of people again, all of the sudden those people are laughing and smiling and liking my funny jokes and stuff. :yay:

So maybe the overall lesson for me on this "social dynamics" aspect of this topic is: quit looking for positive emotional feedback from people who generally don't give out that. But the people who do, well they make this INFP feel 'delightful!' :blush:

Hmm, all this blabbing feels almost like a blog or something "Deep inner thoughts, by an INFP"

For all of those who have ever wondered what its like to be an INFP or what we are like on the inside, we'll I'd say its kinda like this thread. We have an observation/thought/reaction/whatever. It might be something we observe in the outer world via Ne, or it might just be internal rumination. Then we sort through our feelings and values on it [Fi]. Then we say "what can I do with this" or "how can I give external expression to this" at which point its all about Ne. For me, I can take negative things, mull them around with Fi, transmute them into something positive [Fi], and then "release it into the world" [Ne]. Sometimes people see that Ne expression and surmise that there is some negative thoughts/feelings that somehow lay behind it, and not to that there aren't but I processed those negative thoughts into something else and then tried to make something positive with it. A not particularly great example: I see some guy treating his girlfriend like crap. I'm all like "that's such a crappy way to treat people! [Fi] You don't make better relationships that way! [Fi and or Ne?] Okay, I can't change his behavior, but I can do my little part to make sure it doesn't spread. I won't treat women like crap! [Fi] Okay, now let me go be nice to these women over here [Ne]" INFP's, making warm feelings out of crap! :hug: Dude, that should be like our catchphrase or something! Maybe I should PC it a bit: INFP's taking junk and transforming it into personal warm fuzzies???

Other INFP's, does that process in the above paragraph seem familiar/right to you?
 

Asterion

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why does it matter if you affect the lives of those countless billions out there or not? They all have their own minds, they can all organize themselves, they don't need someone to rush in and change it for them. The main goal should be to change your experience of the world, to affect your own mind. In doing that, you're probably going to end up affecting others in the process, and like what has been said, you can't do the impossible.

I guess you're just trying to get the big picture in a good old intuitive fashion and maybe over extending it to encompass the entire world, when you're younger you might not do this because you're less aware of the entire world out there, you'd do it on a smaller scale, ie. how can I affect this group of people? Once you have that big picture, you can then try to see the individual, which you are doing now. But what's the point in seeing such a wide view when it's just going to overwhelm you?
 

lamp

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6) "It's not all about you"
I think it's the opposite: It's all about you (or us, maybe). Now, I see no real purpose to existence, and see life as an unintentional byproduct of DNA's quest to replicate. I see this as an opportunity then to do whatever you want. If you want to sit there and think of yourself as a turd conversion machine of sorts, do that. That matters and is meaningful.
 

Scott N Denver

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Another angle on this is "social clout" if you will, people reacting to your presence and/or what you do. I'll bet all the IN__'s feel like they have relatively little social clout/impact. Think about it, some hot ES__ women tells a story about a stapler not working and everyone finds it funny and interesting. An IN tells that same story and its total eye-rolling and the like. An IN friend told me about that situation happening to him actually. People talk about how "when she/he walks in the room its like the whole palce just lights up!" I'm pretty sure IN__ don't get told that very often, if ever.
 
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