[Fi] Are Fi and selfishness related?

[Lightyear]

I have an INFP friend and though I really like her as a person she is quite a bad friend for the simple reason that she is very selfish. I am wondering if that is related to her having Fi as a dominant function and her using it in an unhealthy way.

I'll try to put her behaviour into words. My friend often goes by how she feels about things on the inside, for example if she feels like she needs to be around people she will be happy to spend time with you, if she wants her own space she will make it clear to you and not spend time with you even if you as a friend might need her company. I in contrast would spend time with a friend in need whatever my mood is simply because this person is my friend and I believe in sometimes sacrificing your own needs for someone else. My friend doesn't seem to get the concept of sacrifice at all, her own wellbeing and "inner feeling compass" determine how she acts, other people's feelings don't really become part of the equation.

She also doesn't seem to get simple rules of friendship that are to me clear as day. For example I broke my foot last year and had to spend a lot of time at home and though I told her about my accident via email pretty soon and she lived just twenty minutes walk from my flat it didn't occur to her at all to pay me a visit during these weeks. I know that if my good friend had an accident and was homebound I would be over there in a flash to cheer her up. And I think it's much to easy to blame it on me being an extroverted feeler and her being an introverted feeler, I do think a lot of IxFPs would visit a sick person too, is her use of Fi just very unhealthy? (And no, her behaviour has nothing to do with her not liking me or trying to avoid me, the simple self-sacrificial rules of friendship just don't seem to occur to her.) She is also the kind of person that I wouldn't ask for help if I really needed it because I would be too scared that she "just wouldn't feel like helping me", hiding that sentiment rather badly underneath a thin coat of superficial empathy to quieten her conscience.

Any thoughts on that? (And if anyone wonders (since I am an INFJ) I haven't doorslammed her yet (she probably wouldn't even notice since I haven't heard from her since I moved away from my home country seven months ago and I am just tired of always making the first step), she used to be one of my best friends at high school so I am more cautious about just cutting every contact completely off but she is working her way straight into the "I just couldn't be arsed to spend any more time and effort on you, you are invisible to me." INFJ zone)

 

[PeaceBaby]

No.

 

[PeaceBaby]

LOL, I can't be that blunt. Fi does not equate to selfishness. The internal values of the Fi oriented individual can be as outwardly focussed and "people friendly" as any Fe, so I don't know exactly what is going on with your friend, but the generalization you make above is unfortunately not an explanation.

I would ask for what you need from this person. We NF's in general expect everyone to intuit our emotional needs, when in reality we need to find our voice and articulate our requirements.

 

[Lightyear]

LOL, I can't be that blunt. Fi does not equate to selfishness. The internal values of the Fi oriented individual can be as outwardly focussed and "people friendly" as any Fe, so I don't know exactly what is going on with your friend, but the generalization you make above is not an explanation.

But I am wondering if an Fi user might be more prone to displaying this "I just don't feel like it on the inside." type of selfishness that my friend displays (while Fe users probably have their own sets of selfish behaviours but wouldn't have such warped "It just doesn't feel right to me at the moment." reasoning, using emotions and values to explain away pretty obvious selfish behaviour.)

 

[garbage]

I have a ENFJ friend who has killed people. Does Fe explain that?

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I have a ENFJ friend who has killed people. Does Fe explain that?

Sheesh. Talk about a counterargument.

Greed, have you and Hitler been chumming it up?

 

[PeaceBaby]

But I am wondering if an Fi user might be more prone to displaying this "I just don't feel like it on the inside." type of selfishness that my friend displays (while Fe users probably have their own sets of selfish behaviours but wouldn't have such warped "It just doesn't feel right to me at the moment." reasoning, using emotions and values to explain away pretty obvious selfish behaviour.)

What is interesting to me is your interpretation. You call her selfish because she does not do what you want her to do? What you "expect" a friend to do?

 

[Lightyear]

I have a ENFJ friend who has killed people. Does Fe explain that?

I am talking about the unhealthy use of Fi here so your reaction is very much over the top. I am quite aware that Fe can be used in very unhealty ways too (and of course that Fi can also be used in very positive and healthy ways > I am not slagging off the function I am just wondering how it expresses itself when used in an unhealthy way)

 

[Lauren Ashley]

The internal values of the Fi oriented individual can be as outwardly focussed and "people friendly" as any Fe...

I would agree with this. It depends on the values that the Fi has. Which you can never know what these are, because they are individually based, not adapting to external circumstances.

 

[Lightyear]

What is interesting to me is your interpretation. You call her selfish because she does not do what you want her to do? What you "expect" a friend to do?

Okay, let's say we have been good friends since high school shouldn't there be some basic things I can expect from the other person? Like that I don't always have to initiate contact, that it shouldn't take the other person six months to visit me even if they just live twenty minutes walk from me, that they actually reply to text messages? I mean if such basic things like just simply staying in contact are not given can I even call this relationship a friendship or is it just a joke or some empty carcass?

 

[Lauren Ashley]

What is interesting to me is your interpretation. You call her selfish because she does not do what you want her to do? What you "expect" a friend to do?

Ahem. Fe

It is customary that one should visit a bed-ridden friend to show that you value the person and care about their health and happiness.

 

[rainoneventide]

Why is she selfish for being herself? I mean, by your post you already have a clear understanding of her personality. Get new friends that will follow your "simple rules of friendship".

 

[PeaceBaby]

Okay, let's say we have been good friends since high school shouldn't there be some basic things I can expect from the other person? Like that I don't always have to initiate contact, that it shouldn't take the other person six months to visit me even if they just live twenty minutes walk from me, that they actually reply to text messages? I mean if such basic things like just simply staying in contact are not given can I even call this relationship a friendship or is it just a joke or some empty carcass?

So ask her, find out. Then you can invest your time appropriately.

You can do this in a way that is non-confrontational and doesn't jeopardize the relationship just for the asking of the question. Tell her how much you enjoy her company and how much you value her friendship. See how this is reciprocated.

This is a generalization too, but a twenty-something INFP often second-guesses everything they do and say in social interactions, so she just may not be as confident as you or she may even be wrapped up in some internal issue to such an extent that she can't see your genuine need for evenly reciprocated companionship.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Ahem. Fe

It is customary that one should visit a bed-ridden friend to show that you value the person and care about their health and happiness.

LOL, I know.

When I broke my foot I wasn't bed-ridden though. I still walked the kids to school. Just sayin'!

 

[garbage]

Sheesh. Talk about a counterargument.

It's not a counterargument. It's more like an answer of "Is the pope Catholic?" except backwards.

Okay, let's say we have been good friends since high school shouldn't there be some basic things I can expect from the other person? Like that I don't always have to initiate contact, that it shouldn't take the other person six months to visit me even if they just live twenty minutes walk from me, that they actually reply to text messages? I mean if such basic things like just simply staying in contact are not given can I even call this relationship a friendship or is it just a joke or some empty carcass?

Leave this person to her own devices and see what she does. If she doesn't get back to you, she's not bound by your rules and expectations, and you won't have this issue lingering over you. If she does, great; you've got a friend back. Either way, you've got your answer.

But give her the benefit of the doubt if she does get back to you. There might be a lot more going on under the surface than what appears. That can probably be explained by Fi.

It is customary that one should visit a bed-ridden friend to show that you value the person and care about their health and happiness.

Are these concerns ever voiced, or are they just left as a function of custom and things that one "should" know to do?

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Are these concerns ever voiced, or are they just left as a function of custom and things that one "should" know to do?

If pressed, yes, they are voiced. However, INFJs are not the pushy type.

In a way, it is a bit of a catch-22. If you voice your concerns, you are seen to be pushing yourself on the other. If you don't, then the other says "How should I know?"

 

[Lightyear]

Why is she selfish for being herself? I mean, by your post you already have a clear understanding of her personality. Get new friends that will follow your "simple rules of friendship".

That's what I am doing, I am not trying to change her since I can't so I am finding myself new friends. But again I don't get this notion that you shouldn't even expect the most basic things from your friends since you are supposedly hindering them "being themselves", what foundation would such a friendship be built upon? That's what I am wondering about, that Fi introspective navelgazing can become so extreme that it's all about "My feelings. My values. My needs." and the Fi-user doesn't even realize how he builds an invisible wall between himself and people around him and ostracizes them. (Also please correct me if I am understaning Fi wrong, that's just how it comes across to me.)

 

[Glycerine]

That's what I am doing, I am not trying to change her since I can't so I am finding myself new friends. But again I don't get this notion that you shouldn't even expect the most basic things from your friends since you are supposedly hindering them "being themselves", what foundation would such a friendship be built upon? That's what I am wondering about, that Fi introspective navelgazing can become so extreme that it's all about "My feelings. My values. My needs." and the Fi-user doesn't even realize how he builds an invisible wall between himself and people around him and ostracizes them. (Also please correct me if I am understaning Fi wrong, that's just how it comes across to me.)

I get the impression that you feel like she's not giving you much thought and you're not on her list of priorities but on the hand, she probably still cares about you but she does not feel obligated to do customary things for you. She probably thinks all those things are superficial and you know you're going to be friends regardless.

 

[Lightyear]

In a way, it is a bit of a catch-22. If you voice your concerns, you are seen to be pushing yourself on the other. If you don't, then the other says "How should I know?"

Yeah, my thinking is: "Do I really need to tell this person simple things that are to me the 1+1 of friendship? Is it really worth investing time in someone who doesn't even seem to get such elementary things?" I actually just feel stupid and kind of pushy having to point that out to her (for example "If a good friend is sick don't ignore him.") I guess it also depends on what you want out of a friendship, for me it is important that the other person actually cares about me, if you for example just want a mindmate to bounce ideas off you might not have the issues at all that I have with my friend.

 

[heart]

It's not simply Fi or Fe at play here. Any type can be selfish and any type can use their own system of justification for it. It's possible that if she were Fe she would speak your emotional language better and give a better excuse? Not sure.