[NF] Am I Bound to Help and Never Be Helped?

[BlackCat]

Yes, it is the Fe doing the giving. Not that all those with Fe dom or aux will give, and Fi dom or aux won't give...

Yeah I see what you mean here.

 

[Oddly Refined]

This is quite true. I think I-- and maybe INFJs in general-- express my ability to work too much, so when I'm called upon to help somebody, it's for work, not a friendly conversation.

Yes. I'm a total workaholic as well. I've worked in the social service sector for several years. I enjoy watching people achieve their goals and helping all sorts of people. Idealism is a wonderful motivator, but you can burn out if you give too much. I'd hate too see you crash from an over load. There is such a thing as too much giving. There are consequences for putting yourself last. You have to remember those in the process. Martyrdom is a bad road and I hope you never have to travel down it.

As for Fe versus Fi. I totally see what you're talking about. It's worth pointing out. I'm still learning the functions and the details. Thanks for the information.

 

[Economica]

I'm no person that goes out into the world and yells, "I can help anyone for free!" but if I see a person in need, I'd feel worthless if I didn't at least offer my assistance. I suppose I'm still radically introverted, as I wouldn't go so far to draw a huge amount of attention to myself just to help someone, yet I still see things and people in the world that could be great, and it kills me to see them stay the way they are. Can't somebody see me the same way?

I believe part (by no means all, but part) of your/INFJs' problem on this score is your tendency to project your own empathy onto others: You assume that others are as cognizant of and attentive to your state and your needs as you are of theirs. When they fail to reciprocate your care and consideration, you then leap to the conclusion that they are unwilling to help you. This need not be the case; it may simply be that your assumption is not met.

Understand that some (if not most) people are to some degree oblivious to the feelings and needs of other people; the fact that someone could use help does not jump out at everyone like it does at you. This does not necessarily mean that they are not generous with their time and resources. Someone might be perfectly willing to help you out with something, but simply fail to realize that you would appreciate their help.

You might protest that no one could misread body language as strong as what you have exhibited on occasions when you really required the help. But here another incidence of projection, this time on the part of the oblivious individual, may come into play: Oblivious people tend to be direct in asking for help (to the point where it may come across to you sensitive soul as demanding) and to assume that others work the same way. When in doubt, they may therefore seek to ascertain the need for their help by asking you directly, and when they do so, they will take the words of your answer at face value. Give a wishy-washy response leaning toward "no, I can do without, thanks" while relying on your body language and tone of voice to communicate "god yes!", and your oblivious would-be helper may proceed on his way, genuinely believing you to prefer to do without.

Therefore: Learn to communicate more directly (to the point where you feel that you are being uncomfortably blunt), and you will uncover the generosity of the oblivious. Which can be considerable - after all, we have all these resources to spare.

Edit: When I first pressed reply, my intention was actually just to post the link to this thread of mine: Too nice for your own good

 

[fill]

"You assume that others are as cognizant of and attentive to your state and your needs as you are of theirs. When they fail to reciprocate your care and consideration, you then leap to the conclusion that they are unwilling to help you. This need not be the case; it may simply be that your assumption is not met."

That's an interesting point. I think what might be a big problem is that I am in fact an introvert; therefore, I prefer to work 'behind the scenes' and I don't exactly let the receiver of my help see what I'm doing. The Fe function is active, but the person I'm helping would notice my 'affection' more if I were to help them right in front of them.

"Learn to communicate more directly (to the point where you feel that you are being uncomfortably blunt), and you will uncover the generosity of the oblivious."

That's a great piece of advice, but do any other INFJs here find absolutely exhausting to do so? If I communicate too directly, I feel as if I'm trying to hard to, well, try. It sort of defeats the purpose for me.

 

[kiddykat]

Fill, I totally understand your concerns.. How I see it? Some people don't have that capacity to? Either due to their own insecurities? Lack of confidence or happiness to put themselves out there? Or maybe that is just their personality? I didn't read through all the replies, but that is what I honestly see..

If we're secure with ourselves, the more likely we are able to express ourselves/help others in the most extraordinary ways. It's when we're bound by 'fear' and 'judgment' when we recoil, and pent up. Unhealthy.

Just be 'you,' and that should be good nuff!

 

[Economica]

That's an interesting point. I think what might be a big problem is that I am in fact an introvert; therefore, I prefer to work 'behind the scenes' and I don't exactly let the receiver of my help see what I'm doing. The Fe function is active, but the person I'm helping would notice my 'affection' more if I were to help them right in front of them.

Let me get this straight; you expect people to reciprocate help they are not even aware that they've been given?

... You gotta give us a fighting chance!

That's a great piece of advice, but do any other INFJs here find absolutely exhausting to do so? If I communicate too directly, I feel as if I'm trying to hard to, well, try. It sort of defeats the purpose for me.

Heh, I thought about stating my advice in the subjunctive tense in hopeless acknowledgment of the mortification it causes you INFJs to communicate your needs directly, but I opted for neutral/open-ended in order to be less J.

 

[fill]

"Let me get this straight; you expect people to reciprocate help they are not even aware that they've been given? "

No, no, you misunderstand me; that would be ridiculous. I'm saying I don't "perform" my help, I simply do it, preferably alone. I don't want people to acknowledge help that they don't know they have been given, I want people to realize the effect I've had on their lives, which in some cases tends to be a deep one since I get so involved with them.

"Heh, I thought about stating my advice in the subjunctive tense in hopeless acknowledgment of the mortification it causes you INFJs to communicate your needs directly, but I opted for neutral/open-ended in order to be less J. "

Hahaha, I can see where being so indirect can be frustrating to many. But I think that's how us INFJs find the people we become quite attached to: it just works/happens. Hah, it's like we get involved in this idea that we can form a relationship with somebody without really saying anything. I've found I really can connect with people that just "get it" in this way. Maybe we watch too much TV.

Here's an example: my ENFP friend is extremely intuitive and perceiving. I've had classes with him, and if the teacher says something that I would probably contort into a sexual joke, I can literally look at him, and we'll both bust out laughing.

 

[Economica]

No, no, you misunderstand me; that would be ridiculous. I'm saying I don't "perform" my help, I simply do it, preferably alone. I don't want people to acknowledge help that they don't know they have been given, I want people to realize the effect I've had on their lives, which in some cases tends to be a deep one since I get so involved with them.

Okay, I need you to spell out for me what kind of help we're talking about here!

... If it wouldn't be too much trouble, I mean. D)

Oh, and for the record, I do have a close friend who is INFJ (Fisherking)!

 

[fill]

Okay, I need you to spell out for me what kind of help we're talking about here!

Simply said: putting others before yourself.

 

[garbage]

From what might be "the other side" of this issue, my ENFJ friend does all sorts of "favors" that I don't want him to do and seems to expect grandiose reciprocation from me in return. I'm a relatively independent person, and that bothers him. I can't help that he feels that way.

I've got no problem reciprocating favors, but to expect what he does from me is just plain ridiculous.


When one gives in a way that the other party cannot receive, can it really be called giving?

 

[Economica]

Simply said: putting others before yourself.

Could you be more specific?

 

[Hanie713]

Could you be more specific?

How about a specific example? Would that help you?

 

[MonkeyGrass]

I feel like I'm watching a painfully awkward ping pong match...yes, specific examples, please! <giggle> Even a hypothetical one that's similar to your typical reality would be great.

 

[Owl]

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful." (Luke 6:27-36)

"What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written:
"So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge."

But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.

"What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."
"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."
"The poison of vipers is on their lips."
"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."
"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know."
"There is no fear of God before their eyes."

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin."

"But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." (Rom 3:3-30)

 

[Lightyear]

Ah, but I think the big issue here is balance. I find it interesting that I feel as if I would do a great deed for somebody, and something as small as a heartfelt "thank you" would make it totally worth it.

I can totally relate to that. I don't do things for people to manipulate them into having to give back to me one day, I actually try to give with no strings attached but sometimes just a little "Thank you." can mean the world to me. It's all it takes to make it worth it.

 

[velocity]

you have to show others how you'd like to be treated (and that begins by identifying, communicating, and enforcing your needs)

 

[PeaceBaby]

You are bound to help and never be helped only if you make it so.

And oh, I understand your situation, at least in the way you express your initial post. You sense other's difficulties and want to "fix" them. Even people who don't ask for help; you sense their problems, you think you have the answers that they seek and that your contribution will make their lives so much better. If only you could turn them to the "light". And I'm sure you are a super friend, but there are two things you need to remember:

1.) You will always generally sense what other people need but most people will not possess the same skill.

2.) If you think you can save the world but not take care of yourself in a healthy balance, you will burn out.

So you are required to a.) ask for help when you need it and b.) recharge without guilt when you need to.

You are young, and my words will only be words to you, but don't let the world harden your shell too much. Be wise and when you feel the need to recharge, just pay attention.

It's not bad to put other people first; it's bad to neglect yourself. You see the difference? And don't fall into the trap of stroking your ego by being such a great "giver" and don't let a need for "thank-you's" make you over-extend to get noticed.

 

[Oddly Refined]

2.) If you think you can save the world but not take care of yourself in a healthy balance, you will burn out.

Yes. A thousand times, yes.

 

[rainoneventide]

You are bound to help and never be helped only if you make it so.

And oh, I understand your situation, at least in the way you express your initial post. You sense other's difficulties and want to "fix" them. Even people who don't ask for help; you sense their problems, you think you have the answers that they seek and that your contribution will make their lives so much better. If only you could turn them to the "light". And I'm sure you are a super friend, but there are two things you need to remember:

1.) You will always generally sense what other people need but most people will not possess the same skill.

2.) If you think you can save the world but not take care of yourself in a healthy balance, you will burn out.

So you are required to a.) ask for help when you need it and b.) recharge without guilt when you need to.

You are young, and my words will only be words to you, but don't let the world harden your shell too much. Be wise and when you feel the need to recharge, just pay attention.

It's not bad to put other people first; it's bad to neglect yourself. You see the difference? And don't fall into the trap of stroking your ego by being such a great "giver" and don't let a need for "thank-you's" make you over-extend to get noticed.

So wise! Just so you know, I'm copying and pasting this in Notepad for future reference. (Hopefully that doesn't sound creepy.)

But yeah, I've experienced those same feelings. I don't feel the need to help people so I can get something in return; I just want to. But at the same time, a part of me is hoping that someone as astute as me will offer to lend support without me having to ask.

 

[SilkRoad]

I struggle with this kind of problem a lot…and sometimes I’m not sure I’m any closer to finding resolution.

I’ve read this thread through a few times because I found it so interesting and there were such good insights. If only all the good advice were easier to put into practice!

For me, having this personality type seems to be a rather long slow torturous struggle toward self-knowledge and finding the right balance with caring for yourself and caring for others. I think when I was a bit younger I basically liked everyone, and now I fear I’ve swung too far in the other direction. All it takes is a few people close to you hurting you, or letting you down repeatedly…add in a good dose of being surrounded by people who don’t seem to be genuinely interested in the well-being of others, and who are only really interested in you for the level of fun you can bring into their lives. Since I don’t come across as the kind of person who can bring a high level of fun into another’s life, these people are pretty much totally disinterested in me. I can’t actually figure it out if it’s better/worse for them to be totally uninterested, or if they were trying to “use” me to bring more “fun” into their lives.

As bad as I seem to be at putting this sort of thing into practice – I can say that it does seem to be all about balance, and perspective, and also recognising that a lot (most) of other people don’t see things the way you do. It helps a lot to find a few, just a very few people who really do understand and who reach out in the way that you want and need them to. I guess I’ve been fortunate in that regard – as lonely and misunderstood as I end up feeling a lot of the time, I need to recognise and appreciate that I’ve found a number of these special people. If you do find them you should really treasure and appreciate them, and spend more time thinking about how great it is that they’re in your life, than how much of a let-down other people can often be.

The whole thing of wanting help/appreciation/reciprocation but not wanting to ask for it is a huge problem for me, I think. As much as I tell myself that other people aren’t mind-readers, I keep wanting them to be, and I wonder why they can’t just see…why they assume I’m self-sufficient, that I’m fine and don’t need any help…Though sometimes we just want appreciation or acknowledgement, or thanks, not help. Being assertive enough to ask for this kind of help is very hard for me. Sometimes, telling people what you need from them can backfire, and I guess that scares me too. I was in a relationship a few years ago where I’d been friends with the guy for a while and I felt so comfortable with him…I assumed that if I told him kindly and mildly (and I really really tried to be kind and mild) that I needed him to behave differently with me some way, or that something he’d done had hurt my feelings, it would be ok. It wasn’t. He started telling me that I wanted to change him because he wasn’t “the perfect man.” I ended up being afraid to say pretty much anything of that sort to him (fortunately this relationship wasn’t that lengthy, or I’m sure it would have seriously messed me up.) Maybe that bad experience affected me. On the flip side, I’ve had experiences with a small number of people where I did eventually get the point of being really blunt with them because what I perceived as their uncaring behaviour was hurting my feelings (“being really blunt” = “blew up”), and although I handled the situation in an over-the-top and unhealthy way (would have been better to say it kindly at a much earlier stage), they did come back and try to reciprocate more when I did nice things for them, not ask me for favours so much without giving something back, etc.

I guess it does get easier in some ways. Getting a bit older and acquiring a bit more self-knowledge certainly helps. Then again, I’ve recently turned 30, and I still feel like it’s two steps forward, one step back, at best…