[INFP] INFP 4's and 9's

[OrangeAppled]

Yep, good stuff

 

[Thalassa]

Yay! I looooove the Cure!

 

[phthalocyanine]

what INFP doesnt. ha!

if this enneagram business is such a bad conversation topic, maybe we should change it to an INFP music thread.

 

[BlackCat]

There are plenty of those. People just haven't been responding in an enneagram fashion... I'd actually appreciate the discussion.

 

[MacGuffin]

I don't associate Type 9 with INFP. Type 9s are more Fe than Fi.

"However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity."

9 - Enneagram Type Nine: The Peacemaker

 

[phthalocyanine]

sauce

 

[Udog]

I don't associate Type 9 with INFP. Type 9s are more Fe than Fi.

"However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity."

9 - Enneagram Type Nine: The Peacemaker

It's a strange thing, but I assure you it happens. Just because I might be very self aware to my emotions doesn't mean I have always listened to them. What happens when my emotions and needs go against the group? While the 4 might say "screw society", I had found it easier to bury those thoughts for sake of group harmony. Do that long enough, and it's easy to lose that sense of self.

 

[MacGuffin]

It's a strange thing, but I assure you it happens. Just because I might be very self aware to my emotions doesn't mean I have always listened to them. What happens when my emotions and needs go against the group? While the 4 might say "screw society", I had found it easier to bury those thoughts for sake of group harmony. Do that long enough, and it's easy to lose that sense of self.

That's the point though, Type 9 isn't aware of their emotions.

 

[heart]

Whenever I've read the type Nine descriptions, it just grates on me and I feel a total repugnance towards it, a need to fiercely reject it.

 

[phthalocyanine]

i know an infp 9 and its love/hate

 

[Udog]

That's the point though, Type 9 isn't aware of their emotions.

I've always thought that it was a lack of acknowledging their needs, and to 'numb out' their emotions. Numbing out emotions isn't quite the same as not being aware of them - it's just refusal to feel them.

 

[Salomé]

According to PTypes.com, INFs are 4s, 9s are xSTJs...

 

[BlackCat]

According to PTypes.com, INFs are 4s, 9s are xSTJs...

There's no real correlation. Any MBTI type can be any enneagram type, however there are more common types for some MBTI types. Most STJs I know are type 1 or 8, there are some ISTJ 5s too.

 

[wolfy]

4 and 9 are common. Type correlations

Nines are aware of their emotions. They simply strive to block them so as to control them.

 

[phthalocyanine]

According to PTypes.com, INFs are 4s, 9s are xSTJs...

i see.. and according to that site INFPs are associated with the sign of Leo.. whether astrology is valid or not, the leo archetype certainly does not represent an introverted (much less indecisive P) character..

i don't think i am the only person to question that site's correlations.

besides, i based my thread topic both on research and experience. i have known INFP 4s and 9s in real life. the STJs i have known have been 8s, 1s, and 6s.

 

[Salomé]

There's no real correlation.

I disagree. Some of the types are strongly correlated (although not necessarily as presented by ptypes - I knew that would be controversial ).

Essentially, both models are measuring similar attributes, so if there were no correlation, one would have to question the validity of one or both models.

 

[Udog]

i know an infp 9 and its love/hate

In what ways? I'm really curious how the INFP 9 vs INFP 4 interaction can look from the 4 side of things.

There's no real correlation.

We've talked about this before, so I know that you believe that INFPs are most likely to be E4s. That's what is meant by correlation. I don't know how accurate it is, but I've read there's about 1 INFP E9 for every 6 INFP E4s out there.

 

[ragashree]

besides, i based my thread topic both on research and experience. i have known INFP 4s and 9s in real life. the STJs i have known have been 8s, 1s, and 6s.

This is interesting. I'm far from being convinced by a lot of the Enneagram stuff, particularly the underpinning psychological explanations. That's another topic however, and as far as the personality descriptions apply I've decided on careful reflection that I'm a fairly definite type 1, if I'm anything. And I really don't think I'm going through life in the grip of my shadow either Any ideas on this?

 

[phthalocyanine]

^ ragashree, whats your MBTI type? INFP's integration point is 1.

In what ways? I'm really curious how the INFP 9 vs INFP 4 interaction can look from the 4 side of things.

well, the 'love' part is easy:


- gentle demeanor, pleasant to be around, makes people feel at ease

- thoughtful, giving, and kind-hearted (softly sentimental)

- genuinely appreciates and accepts people as they are

- diplomatic but principled (i think this person is 9w1)

- good sense of humor (makes even the sullen folk laugh)

- light spirit with a deeper consciousness behind it; good conversationalist

- genuine interest and talent in the arts; flair and nuance

- values placed on harmony (it's nice to share values)

- brings an interesting perspective to discussions (when they are bolder and speak up i really admire their insight)

- encourages people to be who they are




the 'hate' bit:

- makes excuses

- backs down when they should not ; weak-willed

- flaky, doesn't always do what they say - prone to making empty claims

- doesnt always express their true wants; afraid to rebel or say 'no' even when they want to, so instead acts on the sly without communication (sometimes makes white lies in order to protect self and others' feelings - this offends me as it says to me that the person expects nobody to understand or respect them - i have much respect and reverence for 'em)

- bases decisions on the people around them over their own feelings and ideas (i perceive some pain in the person as a result of this - why hurt themselves?)

- can't outright say things, so passively try to hint at them instead (example: "what kind of pizza should we get, pepperoni?" - "yeah. or cheese might be good..")

- low self confidence; seeks affirmation of approval when they already have it (it sometimes feels like all the compliments in the world wouldnt help - this just makes me sad more than angry)

- attracts (sometimes pursues) close friendships, then backs away (i think perhaps they fear that once others 'figure out' they are not as sunny and perfect as they seem on the outside that they won't like them anymore - so far from true..)

- avoids dealing with deeper emotions but reaches out for help when they can't continue avoiding (i wish they'd just own up and speak up sooner. i wish they had more confidence in their friends' concern for them)

 

[PeaceBaby]

It's a strange thing, but I assure you it happens. Just because I might be very self aware to my emotions doesn't mean I have always listened to them. What happens when my emotions and needs go against the group? While the 4 might say "screw society", I had found it easier to bury those thoughts for sake of group harmony. Do that long enough, and it's easy to lose that sense of self.

Agreed; INFP here, 9w1 without question. Especially as a mother, I have found this to be of particular challenge over the years. It gets hard to know what one really wants when you sense what everyone else needs and wants and seek to make that come true.

That's the point though, Type 9 isn't aware of their emotions.

Yes we are, and as an INFP, very much so. That's the lovely oxymoron of it all; we know what we need and want, but we also want group harmony, therefore tend to repress our own desires in favor of the group. I do tend to squish my feelings down, but have learned that doing it for too long carries a hefty price tag.

Whenever I've read the type Nine descriptions, it just grates on me and I feel a total repugnance towards it, a need to fiercely reject it.

I feel that way about type 4. The self-absorption in the description seems so selfish, so "all about me, poor little me". I'd rather not be the rain-cloud of the world (even though we all need a little rain sometimes). LOL, song ref there!

Udog's ratio of type 4 / type 9 sounds about right to me. I don't meet "me" very often ...

Nines are aware of their emotions. They simply strive to block them so as to control them.

Yes, there sure is a strong desire to control these perturbing emotions. Other types blithely stroll through the world without having them playing in the foreground all the time, or else they impose that emotional music all over the rest of the world.

I think my childhood experiences and upbringing are a strong reason why I am a type 9.

- doesn't always express their true wants; afraid to rebel or say 'no' even when they want to

- bases decisions on the people around them over their own feelings and ideas

True; but in balance, this tendency is not detrimental. That said, I have found this a challenge area for me. But swing this over to the other extreme, where one is not taking the feelings and needs of others into account, I think one is committing a deeper sin to the world. Sure, YOU are satisfied, but at what cost to those around you?

- can't outright say things, so passively try to hint at them instead (example: "what kind of pizza should we get, pepperoni?" - "yeah. or cheese might be good..")

Isn't that more of a "P" thing?

- low self confidence; seeks affirmation of approval when they already have it

Confidence improves with age (thankfully) and a positive understanding of oneself.

- attracts (sometimes pursues) close friendships, then backs away (i think perhaps they fear that once others 'figure out' they are not as sunny and perfect as they seem on the outside that they won't like them anymore - so far from true..)

This is the sentence of most interest to me. I definitely attract people who want my sunny energy, and when time shows I am not always so (I can't always be the entertainer, the giver, the cheerful happy face they love to see) they are the ones to back away, to protest even - many want to take, rather than to share. True friends are rare indeed, and there are very, very few people indeed who I even allow to scan my inner self. If I sense you are trying to take a read on me, I'll block such probings. One might find that rather ironic for someone who desires deeper friendships, but I need to protect myself against those who seek to exploit rather than understand. Because sadly, those people exist. In my twenties, I was veritably surrounded by "takers" with only a couple of exceptions.