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[MBTI General] Key to winning a woman's heart?

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Only if it's forced in the first place, I'm guessing certain types would find "romance" more natural and long lasting than others.

I'm hoping anyway.

But see men learn to do that, its not something that would normally be done out of instinct, that its a totally natural response, its more out of necessity that that is what works in courtship. its a smokescreen isn't it?

yes some find romance more natural than others, but then, men wouldn't normally go out of their way to romance a women for the sake of romance would they? they do it out of wanting to get laid, because romance works as part of the attraction process. its like dress ups, would a guy be comfortable going to to a fancy dress party or hit the bar next door.
 

BerberElla

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But see men learn to do that, its not something that would normally be done out of instinct, that its a totally natural response, its more out of necessity that that is what works in courtship. its a smokescreen isn't it?

yes some find romance more natural than others, but then, men wouldn't normally go out of their way to romance a women for the sake of romance would they? they do it out of wanting to get laid, because romance works as part of the attraction process. its like dress ups, would a guy be comfortable going to to a fancy dress party or hit the bar next door.

Really, that's a bit too gender biased, when in actual fact people are often different than their stereotypical gender descriptions would have you believe.

The ISTj I was married to had to force romance, the xNFP I dated for a year was romantic as if it was a natural part of him.

The NFP was already getting laid by me, but the romance remained an integral part of him, more so than me.

I just can't say that all men would find romance or chivalry unnatural.
 

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Really, that's a bit too gender biased, when in actual fact people are often different than their stereotypical gender descriptions would have you believe.

The ISTj I was married to had to force romance, the xNFP I dated for a year was romantic as if it was a natural part of him.

The NFP was already getting laid by me, but the romance remained an integral part of him, more so than me.

I just can't say that all men would find romance or chivalry unnatural.

Yeah your right, its biased, this idea got me thinking after seeing The Hangover. My experiences are less than more. But then again a person can still have pretense about them for years, the illusions can stay as long as a person wants them to. Buy yeah I do think that SF/NF have a stronger romance drive or at least more mushy and sentimental in that way. ah okay I'm talking out of my ass now so meh.
 

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Is it persistence in pursuing? Basically just showing her that you'll care for her FOREVER, and won't stop. unless she's married of course.I read everywhere that persistence is key to success to a lot of things. Any mature women who would like to comment on this subject matter, that would be awesome. Give me your insight!!!

the op says it...care but stop unless your married.
the language, the action, the precipitation that happens. then the person changes to the authentic state, the state that stops keeping up appearances. i think romance clouds judgment too, its what works so its done but for the most part its done as a learned response because it creates the imagrey necessary to associate with what might be considered sexy right.

its like what is the most romantic thing to think about, wouldn't that be a wedding, i hear its like the coupe the resistance. yet would a guy really get that exited by the whole idea or just as easily dispense with the whole idea and go do something else like fishing. :coffee:

its the action over the romance. romance books are written that way to elicit the sensuality needed to create the image, to build on the existing ideas. while the actions for that romance are inherently created out of a need for that romance to happen.

its like what is persistence of itself seen as, an initiation of intention when its wanted, as an action of interest, an action of romantic interest that appeals to a woman's idea that she is desired enough for her knight in shining armour in romancing her.
 

Moiety

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But what's unnatural about chivalry?

Isn't it very natural for some people to be that way anyway?

Obeying a set of rules will always make your behavior a bit contrived, in a sense. But this is coming from an ENFP so...I mean people just approach it differently I guess. I'm all about being natural at all times, and "winning someone's heart" ... I know it's just an expression but it kinda hints at that whole "game-y" spin on dating/relationships/whatever...which I'm not particularly a fan of to say the least.
 

simulatedworld

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I know what you mean, I find it much much easier to list the things I don't want, than the things I do.

Perhaps because I have more experience in what hasn't worked, than what has?

I have a sort of rough idea, ie he needs to be nice.......lol how broad and undefined is that? :rolleyes:

Most people don't really have any idea what they want or why they want it.

But they do have an idea of what people will think! if they don't keep parroting the same bullshit about "LOL WELL ALL I NEED IS A GUY WHO'S CARING LOYAL AND HONEST TEE-HEE!"

stfu. Caring, loyalty and honesty are prerequisites for most women, yes, but they don't do a god damn thing without 74 other abstract, frequently negative (hence the denial of liking them/embarrassment at admitting it) and totally arbitrary characteristics that few women will ever even understand enough to articulate what they are or why they like them.

In other words, avoid women who use the above all-caps phrase like the plague--just like meeting someone new who claims to listen to "all music" on the first date.

Avoid like the fucking plague. People like this either don't have any idea what they like or want, or are too embarrassed about it to tell anyone, in which case the lack of confidence makes them even less worth bothering with.

/rant
 

Fidelia

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If you are trying to win a woman's heart, I think most of the work happens before you even meet her.

Become an interesting, happy, self-sufficient person who is going somewhere with or without a partner. The destination in life is not finding a partner, it's pursuing what matters. Whether you stay single or find someone is like travelling in one of two different types of vehicles to get to your destination. There are pros and cons to both: If you travel alone in the Corolla, you have the freedom to choose your route, excellent fuel efficiency, lots of space when you want to pull into a parking lot etc. If you pick the SUV, you've got company in the car, you can travel rougher terrain, you can pack more stuff etc. Once you are fine on your own, you become interesting to other people.

Learn to genuinely think of others. You can practice this with anyone from the guy who cuts you off in traffic to the person who needs a door held to someone who needs to talk to you. Then when you meet the girl you like it is not an act. She'll notice that you treat other people consistently and when you get comfortable enough not to be on your best behaviour, there will be no drastic change of behaviour.

Finally, you need to realize that you won't be everyone's cup of tea. It's sort of like you selling red. It's no insult to you if someone else is looking to buy green. Red is still a great color, but it makes them look jaundiced. They might even love how red looks on other people, but they just don't wear it well. Someone else will come along who has been looking for your precise shade of red their whole lives. Or you will find someone who was looking for orange, but have just discovered thanks to you that red becomes them be-yew-tifly.
 

Synarch

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Is it persistence in pursuing? Basically just showing her that you'll care for her FOREVER, and won't stop. unless she's married of course.I read everywhere that persistence is key to success to a lot of things. Any mature women who would like to comment on this subject matter, that would be awesome. Give me your insight!!!

1. They have to be attracted to you.
2. Make your interest known.
3. Be yourself.
 

simulatedworld

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If you are trying to win a woman's heart, I think most of the work happens before you even meet her.

Become an interesting, happy, self-sufficient person who is going somewhere with or without a partner. The destination in life is not finding a partner, it's pursuing what matters. Whether you stay single or find someone is like travelling in one of two different types of vehicles to get to your destination. There are pros and cons to both: If you travel alone in the Corolla, you have the freedom to choose your route, excellent fuel efficiency, lots of space when you want to pull into a parking lot etc. If you pick the SUV, you've got company in the car, you can travel rougher terrain, you can pack more stuff etc. Once you are fine on your own, you become interesting to other people.

Learn to genuinely think of others. You can practice this with anyone from the guy who cuts you off in traffic to the person who needs a door held to someone who needs to talk to you. Then when you meet the girl you like it is not an act. She'll notice that you treat other people consistently and when you get comfortable enough not to be on your best behaviour, there will be no drastic change of behaviour.

Finally, you need to realize that you won't be everyone's cup of tea. It's sort of like you selling red. It's no insult to you if someone else is looking to buy green. Red is still a great color, but it makes them look jaundiced. They might even love how red looks on other people, but they just don't wear it well. Someone else will come along who has been looking for your precise shade of red their whole lives. Or you will find someone who was looking for orange, but have just discovered thanks to you that red becomes them be-yew-tifly.

This is pretty good advice. Sometimes I think people who are obsessed with finding a partner are looking for a way to compensate for their depressing/unfulfilling lives. Unfortunately, making one's life fulfilling is something that has to be done before you can really expect a successful relationship of any kind...otherwise it's just a temporary drug that's bound to run out sooner or later.
 

ergophobe

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If you are trying to win a woman's heart, I think most of the work happens before you even meet her.

Become an interesting, happy, self-sufficient person who is going somewhere with or without a partner. The destination in life is not finding a partner, it's pursuing what matters. Whether you stay single or find someone is like travelling in one of two different types of vehicles to get to your destination. There are pros and cons to both: If you travel alone in the Corolla, you have the freedom to choose your route, excellent fuel efficiency, lots of space when you want to pull into a parking lot etc. If you pick the SUV, you've got company in the car, you can travel rougher terrain, you can pack more stuff etc. Once you are fine on your own, you become interesting to other people.

Learn to genuinely think of others. You can practice this with anyone from the guy who cuts you off in traffic to the person who needs a door held to someone who needs to talk to you. Then when you meet the girl you like it is not an act. She'll notice that you treat other people consistently and when you get comfortable enough not to be on your best behaviour, there will be no drastic change of behaviour.

Finally, you need to realize that you won't be everyone's cup of tea. It's sort of like you selling red. It's no insult to you if someone else is looking to buy green. Red is still a great color, but it makes them look jaundiced. They might even love how red looks on other people, but they just don't wear it well. Someone else will come along who has been looking for your precise shade of red their whole lives. Or you will find someone who was looking for orange, but have just discovered thanks to you that red becomes them be-yew-tifly.

:nice:
 

Fidelia

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Lauren Ashley: "What if what matters to the person is finding a partner?"

A partner implies that you are joining forces with someone. How are you going to do that if you don't know what it is you care about doing? If you were going into business with a partner, you'd decide what you want to produce first or what service you are offering. You might be perfectly matched business partners, but you are not actually partners until you are in business together. I think people rarely think about what kind of "business" they would like to go into either alone or with someone. They just don't want to be alone.

The problem with the search for a partner as a main life goal: What happens once they've found the person? That's not enough to keep them busy for life and what happens if the person ever disappoints them? Then their whole purpose in life has been shattered!

My point is that there is nothing wrong with wanting to share your life with someone. However, making it your mission and feeling that you've missed out on life if you didn't find them might set you up for disappointment once you do, and also prevents you from achieving that very goal. You also waste valuable years of your life in the meantime that could be fulfilling and happy ones. I have seen men wish for a girlfriend, more than for a specific girl and they truly believe that all will be well once they find someone to fill that slot. A man who wants someone but does not need them to prop him up is much more attractive to women and will much more quickly achieve the goal of finding someone. (Yes, it is initially flattering to be needed, but then you find you can't depend on him when you need a little propping.) I don't mean that you shouldn't be able to be interdependent. Just that you should think what you are bringing to the table as well as what you will get in return.
 

Lauren Ashley

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What happens once they've found the person?
They live happily ever after :)
That's not enough to keep them busy for life
You'd be surprised.

what happens if the person ever disappoints them?
:ninja:

You also waste valuable years of your life in the meantime that could be fulfilling and happy ones.
Assuming that they haven't been living their life in the meantime.

A man who wants someone but does not need them to prop him up is much more attractive to women and will much more quickly achieve the goal of finding someone.
What if a man wants someone (and that is their goal), but they do not need them?

Just that you should think what you are bringing to the table as well as what you will get in return.
Assuming this hasn't been thought through...

Not trying to be difficult, fidelia. Just curious as to why a goal of reaching the Moon or curing cancer, for example, is considered more worthy than the goal of finding a partner. They may be slightly less mundane, but I fail to see why they are more worthy.
 

Unique

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I think I can contribute to this thread

I loved someone for 5yrs and despite being in a relationship for 6 months of those, deep down wasn't entirely happy

I was extremely persistent, often ignoring other girls that were interested in me, or not putting my energy into keeping relationships alive

There was an insane amount of flirting from her but because I wasn't her "ideal" guy any time I'd try and take things to the next level it wouldn't work

It was pretty sad, we had such a great connection and she absolutely thought I was amazing but she just couldn't bring herself to take it further

Was hard to get over her but if there is something to be learnt here is if she is not interested do yourself a favor and let it go, no amount of cute things you do for her, no amount of time spent with her, no amount of "right" moments for kissing her will change anything
 

Thessaly

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Some of the responses in this thread don't seem to really address the question properly. This thread is about winning someone's heart. Getting a date and obtaining sincere interest entails many of the prerequisites everyone is mentioning. Getting someone to let down their guard and fall for you requires something more penetrating.
 

Fidelia

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Thank you for questioning, Lauren Ashley. You always make me think.

I don't see anything wrong with pursuing a partner as one of your goals. I'm just saying there should be more goals than only that. There's no need to cure cancer or go to the moon to be a worthy goal, but maybe building other interpersonal relationships (which people often ignore in favour of filling this void), developing skills that will be useful for the future, involving yourself with people from the next generation, building strong character or finding work that is meaningful to you could be valuable as well and serve an important purpose in your life whether married or single.

But perhaps that depends on whether you believe this is all there is and then we die, or if you have some other worldview. It also depends I guess on whether you believe we were created by Someone for a purpose, so we have an obligation to get on with it (or use whatever we've been given, or leave some kind of legacy after we die, or do some good in the world or or or), or whether we are here to make ourselves happy as well as we can without harming anyone else in the process. (And in saying that, I am not saying that those without a faith in anything aren't moral or resourceful people who want to contribute to the world). That's a whole different discussion, I guess.

Quite aside from that though, I know a lot of couples of different ages and have observed two large sides of my extended family closely (whom I might have more access to information about). From what I've seen, choosing a partner to not be alone results in unhappiness. Marrying someone who just doesn't want to be alone usually also results in unhappiness. Marrying before you've had a chance to happily experience being alone often means you are missing some key information that may help you successfully find a good partner.

Most marriages I've seen have not been enough to meet both people's needs completely, especially as they've gotten older and faced the things that never will change or never be dealt with that need to be. Those minor differences when people are younger become major differences when people are older if they never get resolved.

What I have written previously does not refer to a person who is healthy and would like to share their life with someone and is already happily using the time they have. I'm talking about those who think their life will suddenly start when they meet someone.
 

Fidelia

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Good point Thessaly.

Do you think getting people to let down their guard and fall for you has more to do with figuring them and their personality out to know what will really make them happy, or with their past experiences that could come between you or ?????
 

jenocyde

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Is it persistence in pursuing? Basically just showing her that you'll care for her FOREVER, and won't stop. unless she's married of course.I read everywhere that persistence is key to success to a lot of things. Any mature women who would like to comment on this subject matter, that would be awesome. Give me your insight!!!

I hate pushy people. For me, if I'm interested, you will know.
If I haven't noticed you yet, make yourself visible and let your interest be known but don't be pushy (or persistent). I really can't stand that.
Try taking a relaxed approach, or cunnilingus. Works (almost) every time. :yes:
 

Fidelia

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A Schnitzel: "Don't let her push you around like that. You don't have to do anything you don't want to"

You are a schnitzel! Besides, I make exceptions for Lauren Ashley cause I respect her.
 
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