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[ENFP] WTF?! ENFPS: Engaging YET ALOOF!

kiddykat

movin melodies
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,111
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4, 7
I think disillusionment can occur on both sides when we take things personally and think, "What did I do? Why's that person mad at me?"

It's usually not about that one particular person when we check out, but it's usually about us, and even I'm guilty of it sometimes.. I guess that's a part of communication/miscommunication. That is why my motto is: "Live and Let Live."

I always think of the bumper sticker in Forest Gump: "Shit Happens." :)
 

Lethe

Obsession.
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
801
MBTI Type
iNtJ
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152
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I've been treated like I'm confusing at times. Let me break it down simply.

People love love love the fact that NF's are warm, and emotional, and loving, and they can't seem to get enough of it. They treat us like we're dispensers, and they can just push a button and get the sweet sweet candy of understanding anytime they want. As if we have unlimited supplies of it, and that we have limitless energy and understanding. They don't understand that we wear out too, that we need to recharge ourselves, that we can't be out in the world all the time. I feel like I need to retreat into my own head for awhile, and regroup. Especially so if there's a particularly intense relationship going on. For me, it's a series of "get close, move back" maneuvers. I have to be able to disconnect from people. And have the confidence that everyone isn't going to fall apart just because I'm retreating for a little while. It's emotional blackmail if anyone tells you that you're "letting them down", or are accusing you of being aloof just because you need some space.

As an INTJ, I have a modest supply of sugary-sweet energy and time for other people. I'm also very clear about to whom and where I use it. (Example: I'm sorry, can we do this another day? I need to focus on my project.") I'll give them a heads up if they investigate on my missing presence. I definitely would not involve myself in social interactions when I need to recharge in solitude.

This ENFP, let's call him K, tends to be unclear and misleading about these peculiar cycles. I might attribute that to K's unawareness from the vague answers I received on my inquiries. K also takes on more than what he's capable of handling. I always ask, "Are you sure?" He quickly then agrees to add an extra load, saying "I can multi-task". :doh: It's not exactly sugary-sweets I'm looking for, it's the thorough, quality responses. I have learned not to take his words at face-value and resorted to relying on his non-verbal replies instead. Recently, K jokingly asked why I didn't bother contacting him for a year. The truth was I felt I was wasting valuable time to meet him when he couldn't hold up his end of the conversation. This happened on numerous occasions beyond my memory. My schedule is packed and the last thing I want to do is drag myself into an unproductive activity. I don't have patience for non-constructive or dull discussions on workdays, let alone socializing. Acknowledging K's sensitivity, I skipped the details and explained my schedule couldn't permit it. I may drop in a line or two in the future. I'm just not sure how.
 

seeker22

New member
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
173
MBTI Type
XNTJ
I've been treated like I'm confusing at times. Let me break it down simply.

People love love love the fact that NF's are warm, and emotional, and loving, and they can't seem to get enough of it. They treat us like we're dispensers, and they can just push a button and get the sweet sweet candy of understanding anytime they want. As if we have unlimited supplies of it, and that we have limitless energy and understanding. They don't understand that we wear out too, that we need to recharge ourselves, that we can't be out in the world all the time. I feel like I need to retreat into my own head for awhile, and regroup. Especially so if there's a particularly intense relationship going on. For me, it's a series of "get close, move back" maneuvers. I have to be able to disconnect from people. And have the confidence that everyone isn't going to fall apart just because I'm retreating for a little while. It's emotional blackmail if anyone tells you that you're "letting them down", or are accusing you of being aloof just because you need some space.

BANG ON!!! PRECISELY!! Love the dispenser analogy - I feel that way A LOT! And the "get close, move back" maneuvering... Soooooo meeeeee... And yes on needing to regroup/recharge!!! (and they thought it was just the introverts lol) Yes we need time to recharge our batteries too! And yes on withdrawing to "process!"
 

seeker22

New member
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
173
MBTI Type
XNTJ
This ENFP, let's call him K, tends to be unclear and misleading about these peculiar cycles. I might attribute that to K's unawareness from the vague answers I received on my inquiries.

Yup. We can be vague. We are not typically "detail people." We are "big picture." Don't count on us to read the fine print. Also being vague allows us to "keep our options open" on some level. We don't like feeling like "we HAVE to." We need to feel like the choice is ours. Being vague facilitates this.

K also takes on more than what he's capable of handling.

Yup. We have the "vision" but we often times bite off more than we can chew. And yes, we can multi-task, but then we usually start just spinning our wheels. No progress. Sometimes we're not always great on the "follow through" element of materializing "the vision." (or "the task.")
 

Skyward

Badoom~
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
1,084
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
9w1
I was always afraid I did something to offend my ENFP friend when he did things like this. I'm thankful this is just an ENFP characteristic, so no apologizing, just waiting for him to spring back out of his mind-cave. :yes:
 

Lethe

Obsession.
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
801
MBTI Type
iNtJ
Enneagram
152
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Yup. We can be vague. We are not typically "detail people." We are "big picture." Don't count on us to read the fine print. Also being vague allows us to "keep our options open" on some level. We don't like feeling like "we HAVE to." We need to feel like the choice is ours. Being vague facilitates this.

I see the point from the ENXP's view. However, I personally see this as flimsy decision making. I think the other party at least deserves to hear a clear answer - negative or positive - when someone else's energy is concerned. Time doesn't wait forever regarding choices and eventually it will decide for them. Hence, missed deadlines.

Yup. We have the "vision" but we often times bite off more than we can chew. And yes, we can multi-task, but then we usually start just spinning our wheels. No progress. Sometimes we're not always great on the "follow through" element of materializing "the vision." (or "the task.")

Anyway, I'll try to work around their weaknesses because I think they're worth the effort. I was going a vacation with an ENFP, C, and right when she said, "Let's do it later", I knew everything would collapse unless I took matters into my own hands a.s.a.p. I booked early plane tickets, hotel rooms, researched possible sight-sees, printed out/memorized the metropolitan bus maps, saved extra money for emergencies, and read as much as I could about our destination. On the day we had to leave, I came a few hours before the flight to help with the packing that was supposed to be finished last night.

And holy Jebus, we made it on time! :D :yes: I was also careful to make sure we had enough room for her to jump around from place to place.

Imagine what would have happened if I didn't think ahead. :rolleyes:

(R & T, two other ENFP companions, are way better at planning and being decisive. This is more of C's story, who technically has zero J traits in her.)
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
Pah! I say, pah!

The rights and obligations of freedom from constraint are something I know a little about. You want freedom from constraint? Live the life of an INTJ.

Dipping in and out of people's lives is letting them down unless they're independent enough to take it. Don't ya think so?
 

valolson

New member
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
1
MBTI Type
ENFP
New to the site so don't have my avatar uploaded. I have a wide range of engagement - when a subject having to do with ideas, concepts, creativity, passion, human potential are being discussed I'm totally in. I think I'm warm and engaging, but even though I'm an extravert, I've had others say that it takes time to get to know me, as new facets of my complex personality, and surprises gradually unfold.
 

Tiny Army

New member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
679
MBTI Type
EN?P
Enneagram
7
Pah! I say, pah!

The rights and obligations of freedom from constraint are something I know a little about. You want freedom from constraint? Live the life of an INTJ.

Dipping in and out of people's lives is letting them down unless they're independent enough to take it. Don't ya think so?

Well WE are usually independent enough to take it and (misguidedly) tend to assume other people will be able to as well.

I get along excellently with INTJs because I'm good at the planning but not on the follow through and they can provide the push I need to finish a project. Once I have planned a thing it slips neatly out of my head because, hell I've already planned it, what's to worry about? This is where INTJs come in. ENFPs have vision and INTJs have discipline I could never even imagine having. I work especially well when I'm in a room with other people.

Working with an INTJ on a project has been one of the best experiences of my life because we will schedule it so that all the work I have to do takes place while he's in the room (relaxing, smoking a bowl usually) and once I've finished my bit for the day I leave and let him get his introvert work cycle on. I don't think I've ever been more productive.

Js have a natural drive to complete things which I lack. If I know for certain that I am being depended on for a thing ("I need your end of the project by tonight or else I am in the shitter.") I will give it my all because I hate letting people down but I do need to see solid evidence for how I am letting them down. "I was having a bad day and you wouldn't answer my phone calls and now I feel betrayed" is NOT a good enough reason for me. Get a shrink. My time is my own.

If it's an emotional dependence, I'm out of there like a shot. If how a person feels on a given day is dependent on my support I am likely to see that as pathetic and I will withdraw from them completely because honestly, who needs that kind of responsibility? I manage my own goddamn feelings and I simply cannot comprehend how anyone could expose themselves like that.
 

seeker22

New member
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
173
MBTI Type
XNTJ
If how a person feels on a given day is dependent on my support I am likely to see that as pathetic and I will withdraw from them completely because honestly, who needs that kind of responsibility?

Amen. Nothing makes me want to flee faster.

I want to give on my own terms so to speak - not for it to be EXPECTED. By the same token, I INVITE others, but do not EXPECT it.

I also have a huge need for autonomy and independence. I hate it when someone tries to "tell me what to do" or control me. I will rebel!
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Actually, that's something I will gladly do for them, as long as it does not become a routine and they start relying on it. And even then, I'll go out of my way to accomodate them, as long as I see progress (aka it helps to talk and they slowely get back on their feet). Just, they cannot blame me for it if I am in fact not available when they didn't give me a heads up, as I consider that guilttripping and that gets you a time-out.

Agreed on the INTJ team-up. It's awesome. My SO plans around me too as he knows what I'll do, aka procrastinate. On subjects that aren't important he'll let it slide and yes, we will be 15 minutes late, or we will not have packed that one handy thing but I'll improvize something when we're there that works just as well (usually it's justg a bit onortodox though, which makes it even more amusing), or sometimes I'll have a brilliant incling in the moment and shift things around and make them into something completely different and more fun. Either way, the world doesn't fall apart just coz he doesn't pick up my slack, I just readjust it a little. When it's important to him and more conventional and other people depend on it, which means I cannot do my 'in the moment' bit, I let him handle it, coz otherwise my eyes just glaze over before I've even started it.

Like said before, I too can finish something if it's important to someone, just like I *can* be on time if it's really that important to you. Plz though, realize what you're asking of me. It's a huge thing. It means that I cannot be in my own little world for an entire day coz I have to constantly keep track of time. It sucks the fun out of life for me and stresses me to death, especially if I still have to do other stuff that day. But I'll gladly do it. For you. Anytime. As long as you appreciate it :)
 

hokie912

New member
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
271
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
When I am present, I will make you feel like you are the only person in the room, because I truly will be fascinated with you, yet I can be tough to pin down.

Extraverted NFs seem to do this kind of thing a lot. How can someone be the most interesting person in the room at one moment and yet there's no interest in pursuing that further? It seems so fickle. I guess it's hard for me to understand, because I am more reserved in crowds and only really open up in small groups or one-on-one. If I find someone interesting in a group, my first reaction is to want to get to know them more intimately to gauge whether it's a potential friendship. I have an ENFP friend who is all smiles and engagement when I see her, but extremely difficult to get in touch with to plan getting together. If we ever do see one another, it's on her schedule, as if she woke up one day and randomly thought, "Oh, hey, I haven't seen so-and-so in a while!" It's tough to know whether to take it personally.
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
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4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Actually, you described us perfectly. If you call us on a moment that we're not in the middle of something and no one has pinned us down yet that day, you're on. But the whole scheduling thing is a gruesome feeling. We like to go with what we feel like doing in the moment. Don't get me wrong, we love to see you, and get together with you and have fun, but that doesn't mean that that's going to be what we feel like doing at the time that we've agreed on a week ago. Clearly, we know this isn't practical, but ideally, I for one just prefer doing things in the moment. (speaking for other ENFPs again, but I'm sure they'll let ya know if they disagree)

Just now, I met up with a fellow ENFP. We always take at least a week, if not a month to finally get together, coz we always end up deciding this spontaneously as plans never get anywhere. And chances are, we have obligations, or we just don't feel it at that point. We don't blame each other, it'll happen, at some point. There's no deadline on it. Now today, I had to go give her something that needs to be taken care of, and my SO is nowhere to be seen. I also like her SO and it had been a while since I went shopping, and it's always fun with her. She from her side, felt like procrastinating a bit as she's supposed to put together some exams (she's a teacher) so much preferred me distracting her with all kinds of shops she's crazy about too, over putting together those annoying exams :D
 

seeker22

New member
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
173
MBTI Type
XNTJ
the whole scheduling thing is a gruesome feeling. We like to go with what we feel like doing in the moment. Don't get me wrong, we love to see you, and get together with you and have fun, but that doesn't mean that that's going to be what we feel like doing at the time that we've agreed on a week ago.

EXACTLY. I DREAD agreeing to a committment.

Friend: How about Saturday at eight?
Me: <reluctantly> ummmm, yeah... call me...
Friend: So Saturday at eight then right?
Me: <with smile and wink> It's definitely possible!!
Friend: Ok meet me at _____.
Me: Yeah I will call you...

They can't really pin down if I'm concretely saying yes. I like to keep my options open, but also don't like to hurt people's feelings.

I don't like scheduling events because in the present moment, in the "state" I'm in, I may truly feel like going ot the event - but when it actually rolls around a week later - I don't know what my "state" will be and chances are I will very well not feel like going!!

It's best if you let me know I'm invited, but not press me to commit - so that when it does roll around, I feel like I don't *HAVE TO* go but can *CHOOSE* to go if I want. That way we are allowed to reference our present "state" in deciding whether to go - and not guess at what our "state" will be weeks or months from now.

And yes we really do find everyone fascinating, each in their own way.
 

Tiny Army

New member
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Jan 12, 2009
Messages
679
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EN?P
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7
Extraverted NFs seem to do this kind of thing a lot. How can someone be the most interesting person in the room at one moment and yet there's no interest in pursuing that further? It seems so fickle. I guess it's hard for me to understand, because I am more reserved in crowds and only really open up in small groups or one-on-one. If I find someone interesting in a group, my first reaction is to want to get to know them more intimately to gauge whether it's a potential friendship. I have an ENFP friend who is all smiles and engagement when I see her, but extremely difficult to get in touch with to plan getting together. If we ever do see one another, it's on her schedule, as if she woke up one day and randomly thought, "Oh, hey, I haven't seen so-and-so in a while!" It's tough to know whether to take it personally.

We are not Fe users. Nor are we dominant feelers. Our feelings about things are cultivated on our own time, and in private. Our interest is not emotionally motivated. If someone is the most interesting person in the room one minute it's for mostly intellectual reasons. "This is a kind of person I haven't seen before. I wish to know more about it for my database." They're not the most interesting person the next day because we did enough research the last time we met them and have found something new to study somewhere else.

Just because we find someone interesting doesn't mean we are deeply emotionally invested in building a long lasting and meaningful relationship with them. We were just curious. We don't need to take the time to gauge friendship potential because making friends comes easily to us and isn't as big a deal as it is to introvert feelers. A friend is someone whose number is in your phone and who you can call when you want to hang out with them. This could happen twice a week or once every three years. It doesn't make a difference to us.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
Just because we find someone interesting doesn't mean we are deeply emotionally invested in building a long lasting and meaningful relationship with them. We were just curious. We don't need to take the time to gauge friendship potential because making friends comes easily to us and isn't as big a deal as it is to introvert feelers. A friend is someone whose number is in your phone and who you can call when you want to hang out with them. This could happen twice a week or once every three years. It doesn't make a difference to us.

That, ma'am, is going to come back and bite you on the ass one day.
 

hokie912

New member
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
271
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INFJ
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9w1
We are not Fe users. Nor are we dominant feelers. Our feelings about things are cultivated on our own time, and in private. Our interest is not emotionally motivated. If someone is the most interesting person in the room one minute it's for mostly intellectual reasons. "This is a kind of person I haven't seen before. I wish to know more about it for my database." They're not the most interesting person the next day because we did enough research the last time we met them and have found something new to study somewhere else.

Just because we find someone interesting doesn't mean we are deeply emotionally invested in building a long lasting and meaningful relationship with them. We were just curious. We don't need to take the time to gauge friendship potential because making friends comes easily to us and isn't as big a deal as it is to introvert feelers. A friend is someone whose number is in your phone and who you can call when you want to hang out with them. This could happen twice a week or once every three years. It doesn't make a difference to us.

It makes sense, really. It's just very different from the way I approach things, so it takes some getting used to. I don't automatically want to befriend every person I find interesting, but I do tentatively want to know more about him or her. Though logically, if you can gather enough information to satisfy your curiosity the first time around, that works, too. I'm just not such a social creature!

Maybe some of it is the Ni-Fe combination for INFJs... going for depth rather than breadth of understanding. I can't imagine thinking in terms of databases of people (that's so Ne!)...I'm more likely to zero in on the one or two people in the room I find intriguing and intently try to figure out what makes them tick. Which sometimes requires follow-up. :)
 

Tiny Army

New member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
679
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EN?P
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7
That, ma'am, is going to come back and bite you on the ass one day.

My friends know this about me. I try to make it very clear to people at the very start of a friendship that I am very busy and all over the place and that we will see each other when we see each other. Obviously if someone I care about is in a serious emotional crisis I will be there for them but there's serious business and "My boss was mean bloooo bloooo comfort meeeeee!"

I have a lot of INFJs in my life and I understand their need for one on one time and their need for a depth of understanding but it does make me deeply uncomfortable. I feel exposed and vulnerable and I don't like having my emotions probed too deeply. It results in an almost immediate fight or flight response. My INFJ roomate keeps trying to get me to talk to her about a very traumatic childhood event that I made the mistake of telling her about once (she's looking to be a counselor for people who have similar issues) and my reaction is always to joke about it and then change the topic. I know it frustrates her and I understand that she cares about me and just wants to help but it weirds me right the fuck out.

I think most ENFPs will agree with me when I say that our flakiness doesn't mean that we don't like you. We just like a hundred other people just as much, and we appreciate them all for unique and individual reasons. We have a lot of room in hearts for people, just not enough hours in the day.


(I'm also more emotionally closed off than most of the ENFPs I have observed on the forums. I can be kind of a cold bitch sometimes.)
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
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ENFP
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4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Hokie, I'd like to say that I don't entirely agree with Tiny. Yes, it does work that way in the beginning. But because we meet so many, and not first observe, we can satisfy our curiosity about certain people in one go, while others we find more...interesting I guess, or say feel in sync with, which causes us to come back for more. That doesn't mean we didn't like the first person, it's just that that first person isn't likely to be able to offer us more, and for that matter, we're unlikely to be able to offer them more, I'd say. And that connection that we made, as superficial as it may seem, is still valuable to us, and we might yet come back to it. Every person is unique to us and depending on the 'click' the depth of the connection can differ profoundly.

I guess you could say we select differently than you do. We use Ne to get in the middle of the action and select. Whereas you will observe and pick out those that you find interesting after observation :)
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
My friends know this about me. I try to make it very clear to people at the very start of a friendship that I am very busy and all over the place and that we will see each other when we see each other. Obviously if someone I care about is in a serious emotional crisis I will be there for them but there's serious business and "My boss was mean bloooo bloooo comfort meeeeee!"

I have a lot of INFJs in my life and I understand their need for one on one time and their need for a depth of understanding but it does make me deeply uncomfortable. I feel exposed and vulnerable and I don't like having my emotions probed too deeply. It results in an almost immediate fight or flight response. My INFJ roomate keeps trying to get me to talk to her about a very traumatic childhood event that I made the mistake of telling her about once (she's looking to be a counselor for people who have similar issues) and my reaction is always to joke about it and then change the topic. I know it frustrates her and I understand that she cares about me and just wants to help but it weirds me right the fuck out.

I think most ENFPs will agree with me when I say that our flakiness doesn't mean that we don't like you. We just like a hundred other people just as much, and we appreciate them all for unique and individual reasons. We have a lot of room in hearts for people, just not enough hours in the day.


(I'm also more emotionally closed off than most of the ENFPs I have observed on the forums. I can be kind of a cold bitch sometimes.)


You need a name card.

Hi, I'm Tiny.
I'm busy and I know a lot of people.
I want to get to know you too. Don't take it personally, yo.
 
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