[MBTI General] INFJ 6's and ENTP 3's

[entropie]

Who is with me ?

Enneagram Type Three (the Achiever)
with
Enneagram Type Six (the Loyalist)
What Each Type Brings to the Relationship
Surprisingly, this is not a common pairing, although these two types can work very well as a team. On the positive side, Threes bring hard work, optimism, energy, a desire to communicate and to connect with people, and a feeling of unlimited potential both personally and in the relationship itself. Threes can bring an enormous sense of self-confidence and the hope of success that is assured—that this relationship is a winning team or that this couple is the best ever! Common goals bring them together—they are both practical and want to achieve tangible things in the world. Sixes bring grounding, industrious hard work, perseverance in difficult times and personal loyalty to the Three. Sixes provide warmth, support, and a great deal of practical good sense. Sixes can also bring a compassion for the downtrodden or the less fortunate in life. Threes can pick up on this compassionate quality in Sixes and learn to open their own hearts more deeply to the underprivileged and the unfortunate.

Both believe in applying elbow grease toward goals, whether toward financial security or developing personal talents. In short, they are both doers. They foster equality and mutual respect for the different talents each brings and the shared interests they invest in. Threes help bolster the Six's confidence and develop their self-esteem. Sixes offer support to Threes without Threes feeling smothered. Sixes also help Threes to become part of something bigger than themselves-a church, a service organization, a political or spiritual group. Both become stronger individually and as a team by "finding themselves" through service and humble hard work. Respect for each other can grow as each continues to discover the other's good qualities. This can be a very enduring and a successful couple as long as heart-centered values and deeper principles keeps them both grounded.

 

[chris1207]

So.... who's the girl?

 

[entropie]

I tried to lure her to mbti a several of times, she is registered as Yvette but she never posts. Its because her english sucks, she always ignored that lesson in school, cause she is from France and they sound to funny when speaking english.

Got pictured here tho only:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/bonfire/6487-picture-time-current-345.html#post685212

I was hoping for some understanding, but I see that seems to be a personal thing, which shouldnt be open for the public

 

[Matrik]

Who is with me ?

ENTP 3w2 (Achiever,Charmer).

According with this theory I am one-half of the equation. Yep I'm with you. Just need an INFJ Enneagram 6 now. Hehe.

 

[Ruthie]

Ok, I'll play along, I'm an INxJ 6. Guess I should have been looking for an ENTP 3 all this time...

 

[garbage]

ENFP 3 with an INFP 6. It's kind of like the same thing.

 

[the state i am in]

i've yet to meet any infj 6s but i know some intj 6s who test as infjs bc they have pretty strong Fi. i could see enp 3 and inj 6 working really well. 3s have so much energy, it's a weirdly intense focus on goals (as achieved to enjoyment and appreciation like a 7). 6s would be in loooooove with that directed their way, altho the overall lasting value would be rooted more so in shared values, especially for an inj 6 (vs a sj 6, who would not be so focused on their place in the relationship, who would allow previously established FACTS to still hold just as true today as ten years ago).

inj 6s would be capable of appreciating almost everything, would be very kind and giving deep down, wanting to express these feelings, and enps (3 and 7 especially) ALWAYS make a big splash, are exciting, intense, enthusiastic, etc. i could see it, whereas other inj types might be more focused on an inner agenda/huge fucking suitcase of ideals that could more strongly clash with others especially a 3 or 7 who has not spent serious time prioritizing, organizing values, and figuring out what is ultimately important to them (via introverted processes).

 

[Ruthie]

I think inj 6s can on the surface resemble SJ types. This similarity seems very unlikely for inj 4s or inj 5s. It's probably especially true with infj - the Fe raising awareness of community standards, and the Type 6 personality seeking security through belonging.

It's like all the intuitive envisioning that an inxj uses can be used to imagine something very grounded and safe (SJish). It's definitely different from actual SJ 6s, who, rather than idealizing SJ values, just live them out effortlessly. The 6 seeks a kind of "life anchor." For an actual SJ 6, the anchor exists and is unchangeable. For an INJ 6, the anchor is a worthy ideal and is pursued.

I would guess there's a similar pull in ENxP 3s - the 3 seeking achievement, and the Ne always seeing opportunities. Maybe that's one reason for the entp3/infj6 connection? Both types seek something more concrete than their MBTI is comfortable with?

 

[the state i am in]

^^^ that was really helpful to me. thank you for writing it.

by "life anchor" you mean something extraverted to hold on to? to guide and secure life, that will persist and perdure even when thoughts thoughts thoughts (anxiety!) are up in the air and uncertain?

i'm not sure but so far with my intj 6 i've encountered a huuuuge difference in tertiary Fi vs Ti. she wants something comforting and nostalgic akin to an inner child that too often gets left behind (Te!) and just wants to play. whereas i use it to break things apart, analyze them until i feel i have total mastery over them as a discourse, that my understanding and its corresponding articulation are perfected, that i have perfectly precisely (and somewhat detachedly) synthesized the Fe values present around me, in my awareness and attention, circulating throughout the social game as pertains to my position within it.

i'm wondering how this would work for an infj 6? how the motivations would be processed via cognitive functions and what it would look like?

 

[entropie]

Credits for the above thing by the way go to Rhapsody, who found that on enneagram institute. I didnt write it, hence the quote, but I could have wrote it, that's why I liked it that much.

ENFP 3 with an INFP 6. It's kind of like the same thing.

Yes absolutely.

i've yet to meet any infj 6s but i know some intj 6s who test as infjs bc they have pretty strong Fi. i could see enp 3 and inj 6 working really well. 3s have so much energy, it's a weirdly intense focus on goals (as achieved to enjoyment and appreciation like a 7). 6s would be in loooooove with that directed their way, altho the overall lasting value would be rooted more so in shared values, especially for an inj 6 (vs a sj 6, who would not be so focused on their place in the relationship, who would allow previously established FACTS to still hold just as true today as ten years ago).

inj 6s would be capable of appreciating almost everything, would be very kind and giving deep down, wanting to express these feelings, and enps (3 and 7 especially) ALWAYS make a big splash, are exciting, intense, enthusiastic, etc. i could see it, whereas other inj types might be more focused on an inner agenda/huge fucking suitcase of ideals that could more strongly clash with others especially a 3 or 7 who has not spent serious time prioritizing, organizing values, and figuring out what is ultimately important to them (via introverted processes).

From what I got, especially out of the other thread about 3's; we seem to be in the habit of living after standards. And as cruel as that may sound the 6's high standard concerning loyality can be a standrad the Three adapts to.

I am often faced with the decision that I go with the flow, move with the masses. Not only to keep up an image but because I dont know what I want for myself.

If you heard about the fact for example that some people aint ever happy in a relationship, its absolutely because they dont know what they want.

And for 3s its not that easy, it will never happen. If I would be forced to listen into myself and find out what I want ultimately, I bet I will rather go procrastinating on something and living something else. Joining a forum filled with OG's from the westcoast and mimicking the greatest gangster of em all .

But the 6 has a clear and unegotiable image of herself and feels what she wants (doesnt know it tho). Hence the title "The Loyalist". Of course I am talking in a percet image here, noone is born perfect and for a 6 to be completly convinced that way it of course needs personal growth.

So if I can take on the example of my gf again. I learned her ways. The first year of our relationship we constantly broke off with each other, cause I failed her rules or she hurt me with being to tense. She as a very open minded person and we both being in love for each other, worked for that year like a pendulum. Our spirited and pragmatic souls moved slower and slower and fro.

I have adapted to a complete new sets of standards now. My family notices change in me and reacts with not liking me anymore. My friends are thank got to dumb to notice small change.

The thing so is the 6 gave me a standard to live for. A standard, a set of rules I can use to live a life in which I am oscillating to the resonance of my own feelings. If she hadnt done that, I would have always lived after foreign standards, which would have neber made me happy and which would have had only built up an internal sadness, which would prolly eventually would have let to me blowing my brains out.

(you cant imagine how many different playboys I had as idols when I was a young boy and tried to mimick them to score with the girls. Never happened cause they always noticed I was playing it)

I am not saying I am living in perfect harmony with myself now, you never will learn all in life, but I am happy. And my 6 did that by respecting the person and not changing me, by accepting the things that come with me that are not perfect and showing me that she has fallen in love with them also.

And a form of felt loyality, embrace, feeling of security and acceptance I never have witnessed in my life before and you cant blame anyone for that, cause I am always wearing my mask.

 

[Ruthie]

^^^ that was really helpful to me. thank you for writing it.

by "life anchor" you mean something extraverted to hold on to? to guide and secure life, that will persist and perdure even when thoughts thoughts thoughts (anxiety!) are up in the air and uncertain?

Exactly. For me, it doesn't manifest itself as conscious anxiety - more like a nagging sense of homesickness. And yeah, the "life anchor" can be anything external: a person, a belief, even a holiday (I personally love holidays because they have such set dates and customs: Thanksgiving will ALWAYS be on a Thursday, and people will ALWAYS eat turkey...) It just adds a bit of continuity to an ever-changing environment.

i'm not sure but so far with my intj 6 i've encountered a huuuuge difference in tertiary Fi vs Ti. she wants something comforting and nostalgic akin to an inner child that too often gets left behind (Te!) and just wants to play. whereas i use it to break things apart, analyze them until i feel i have total mastery over them as a discourse, that my understanding and its corresponding articulation are perfected, that i have perfectly precisely (and somewhat detachedly) synthesized the Fe values present around me, in my awareness and attention, circulating throughout the social game as pertains to my position within it.

i'm wondering how this would work for an infj 6? how the motivations would be processed via cognitive functions and what it would look like?

That's a really interesting observation and question. This is kind of how I see it:

1. Every Ni is going to imagine Something Better.
2. For most people, Something Better is something obviously more. More education, more money, more travel, more opportunities...
3. With "more," usually comes change (travel means leaving home, money means moving to a bigger house, etc...)
4. Type 6 wants security - not so big on change
5. So, the Something Better that the Ni projects for a Type 6 can actually seem like something less. The mundane is romanticized. Monotony is the end goal, but it never quite exists in the present.

As for the auxiliary function, I think Type 6 and Fe are very compatible: we want to be accepted, so we learn to be socially acceptable.

My tertiary Ti actually sounds a lot like what you describe. I'm very analytical, and every person or situation gets filtered into a web of theories (that I spend an embarrassing amount of time crafting). That mental grid of theories is actually pretty reliable (which can make me come across as cynical from time to time... like I have people "figured out" before I give them a chance), but obviously it's never 100%. Some people surprise me. Some don't fit in with any of the archetypes I've set up. That leads to a kind of push-pull I have: I'm drawn to those surprises, but I'm very reluctant to alter the carefully crafted system (classic Ni vs. Ne, I guess). I think it's exacerbated in Type 6 though because the system itself provides added security.

Sorry for the point-by-point answer (my love of these point-by-point responses is one of the main reasons I haven't closed the door on the possibility I'm an INTJ )

 

[Matrik]

Ok, I'll play along, I'm an INxJ 6. Guess I should have been looking for an ENTP 3 all this time...

Ok Entropie...Here we are! (Talk amongst ourselves?)

 

[entropie]

Ok Entropie...Here we are! (Talk amongst ourselves?)

Well see, I was never the type who needed to write long posts as you prolly can see from my last post .

If you ask tho, why I posted this thread in the first place, you are right, I am not sure myself. I am a pretty evil showoff.

I am just glad to have finally found a form of closeness in my life, I never did before. And I am glad I finally found it.

And thats not only a thing I got only in my 6, no, but because of you dumb people aswell

 

[TaylorS]

I think inj 6s can on the surface resemble SJ types. This similarity seems very unlikely for inj 4s or inj 5s. It's probably especially true with infj - the Fe raising awareness of community standards, and the Type 6 personality seeking security through belonging.

It's like all the intuitive envisioning that an inxj uses can be used to imagine something very grounded and safe (SJish). It's definitely different from actual SJ 6s, who, rather than idealizing SJ values, just live them out effortlessly. The 6 seeks a kind of "life anchor." For an actual SJ 6, the anchor exists and is unchangeable. For an INJ 6, the anchor is a worthy ideal and is pursued.

LOL, that describes me perfectly.

 

[Ruthie]

LOL, that describes me perfectly.

Us inxj 6s are underrepresented, at least on this board: glad to know there's another one out there

 

[the state i am in]

Exactly. For me, it doesn't manifest itself as conscious anxiety - more like a nagging sense of homesickness. And yeah, the "life anchor" can be anything external: a person, a belief, even a holiday (I personally love holidays because they have such set dates and customs: Thanksgiving will ALWAYS be on a Thursday, and people will ALWAYS eat turkey...) It just adds a bit of continuity to an ever-changing environment.

That's a really interesting observation and question. This is kind of how I see it:

1. Every Ni is going to imagine Something Better.
2. For most people, Something Better is something obviously more. More education, more money, more travel, more opportunities...
3. With "more," usually comes change (travel means leaving home, money means moving to a bigger house, etc...)
4. Type 6 wants security - not so big on change
5. So, the Something Better that the Ni projects for a Type 6 can actually seem like something less. The mundane is romanticized. Monotony is the end goal, but it never quite exists in the present.

As for the auxiliary function, I think Type 6 and Fe are very compatible: we want to be accepted, so we learn to be socially acceptable.

My tertiary Ti actually sounds a lot like what you describe. I'm very analytical, and every person or situation gets filtered into a web of theories (that I spend an embarrassing amount of time crafting). That mental grid of theories is actually pretty reliable (which can make me come across as cynical from time to time... like I have people "figured out" before I give them a chance), but obviously it's never 100%. Some people surprise me. Some don't fit in with any of the archetypes I've set up. That leads to a kind of push-pull I have: I'm drawn to those surprises, but I'm very reluctant to alter the carefully crafted system (classic Ni vs. Ne, I guess). I think it's exacerbated in Type 6 though because the system itself provides added security.

Sorry for the point-by-point answer (my love of these point-by-point responses is one of the main reasons I haven't closed the door on the possibility I'm an INTJ )

that's very interesting. i find introverted perception functions to have a wariness to them, a scanner looking for potential trouble, preparing for the future, viewing the world as changing and potentially hostile bc ultimately they spend a lot of time attending to the arrangement and organization of their own ideas rather than to the world outside of them that continues and is competitive and resistant to their inner desires.

but it's strange when i look at the desires i have for cultivating my Ni and expressing it in opposition to type 6. how much i define myself by my ability to be imaginative or have really fresh interpretations, see/discover creative connections, quirky, etc is really but one of the many potential ways in which Ni can envision itself (4 wing). and how my 5 type just has the constant greed, feeling of being deprived, wanting everything, total Ni omniscience (just because). a desire for unlimited gluttonous spending of time, resources, etc on Ni development/pleasure. prepared for everything and lord/master of all.

inj 6 looking like isj makes sense bc it shares the enneagram type of most isjs (6 and 2?).

anyway, what gives you the most satisfaction in terms of appreciating your cognitive functions or your own unique skills? how do the goals of 6 and infj come together for you? taking care of, helping, defending people? what does these principles or N abstractions that separate you from isfj look like?

LOL, that describes me perfectly.

i was wondering if you and ruthie notice a lot of differences between yourselves and the other infj types on this board?

 

[Ruthie]

that's very interesting. i find introverted perception functions to have a wariness to them, a scanner looking for potential trouble, preparing for the future, viewing the world as changing and potentially hostile bc ultimately they spend a lot of time attending to the arrangement and organization of their own ideas rather than to the world outside of them that continues and is competitive and resistant to their inner desires.

Seems fair. It takes so long to order the environment in a particular way - whether through Si or Ni - that for a lot of us, we just want to shut the door and defend the territory.

but it's strange when i look at the desires i have for cultivating my Ni and expressing it in opposition to type 6. how much i define myself by my ability to be imaginative or have really fresh interpretations, see/discover creative connections, quirky, etc is really but one of the many potential ways in which Ni can envision itself (4 wing). and how my 5 type just has the constant greed, feeling of being deprived, wanting everything, total Ni omniscience (just because). a desire for unlimited gluttonous spending of time, resources, etc on Ni development/pleasure. prepared for everything and lord/master of all.

I think a lot of it has to do with Society and The Individual. A lot of classic INFJ traits are "individual-focused": expression through art, breaking away from traditional norms, identifying with the motives of another individual to the point of near ESP. That fits with type 4 - reverence for the individual and a belief that societal expectations are holding that individual back. Subtract the focus on art, and you get a pretty good description of Type 5 values as well (what was it you said in the other thread? "The hair blowing in the wind, Oh Conquerer!" thing? )

inj 6 looking like isj makes sense bc it shares the enneagram type of most isjs (6 and 2?).

Probably. The motivations of type 2 seem foreign to me, and even though I've read that SJs are often one of those two types, I can't personally imagine how 6s and 2s seem alike at all. The only other enneagram types I can relate to really are 1s and 8s. Apparently, that's not unusual.

anyway, what gives you the most satisfaction in terms of appreciating your cognitive functions or your own unique skills? how do the goals of 6 and infj come together for you? taking care of, helping, defending people? what does these principles or N abstractions that separate you from isfj look like?

I'm a classic 6 in my interest in politics and power dynamics, so I focus a lot of my intuition there. I have kind of a quirky ideology and I love developing it and adding layers, measuring for internal consistency, connecting it with ideas from just about every social realm. I connect the dots in weird ways and I'm pretty good at spotting patterns and making macro-predictions. But all of that happens inside: by the time I verbalize a theory, it's decided. The only real way to confuse INJ 6s and ISJ 6s is to listen to the conclusion and ignore the reasoning. Both types extrovert certainty, both are interested in stability, and both are likely highly attuned to group dynamics. But INJs filter that through a carefully crafted ideology. ISJs probably see that as a colossal waste of time (reinventing the wheel, to them) and adopt an existing framework for interpreting information.

Also, to an ISTJ, history dictates the pattern. That's a tempting idea for us 6s, who tend to obsess about history. But as an INJ 6, I search for historical parallels that fit into my worldview: examples to support theories I've already established.

What about with you? INFJ 5s are probably rarer than INFJ 6s. How does the 5 need for detachment and objectivity fit with being an F?