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[MBTI General] The INFJ Facial Expression/Disposition?

FC3S

New member
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
371
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
666
I've found the word I'm looking for.

'Phantasm'

[Edit] INFJs suddenly scare me.
 

Skyward

Badoom~
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
1,084
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
9w1
Hah 4.0 here. ;p Also, I argue in class all the time!

AND your name is a great way to describe an INFJ. In general, we're awkward in social situations but still carry ourselves like everything we do is on purpose. ENJs are still much better at it than us, either way.

So in other words what an INTJ does to the realm of academics (oh god), an INFJ does in the realm of philosophy?

That sounds right.

Were INTJs have masterminds like the Joker or the surgeon-sadist in Saw, INFJs have saviors like Ghandi and Jesus. It's not that INTJs are evil, its that they view themselves separate from humanity (IME), and with T tend to experiment, while INFJs, who also feel apart from humanity, use their perceived distance to learn about people and try and improve them. That's the Te/Fe difference.

INTJs have been the stereotype of many supervillains. They have some weird motive (the Joker wants to play against the rules just to see what happens and the Saw guy wants to see how far people will go to preserve their life) and have the tactical genius to string along the hero(s) for a long time.
 

FC3S

New member
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Messages
371
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AND your name is a great way to describe an INFJ. In general, we're awkward in social situations but still carry ourselves like everything we do is on purpose. ENJs are still much better at it than us, either way.



That sounds right.

Were INTJs have masterminds like the Joker or the surgeon-sadist in Saw, INFJs have saviors like Ghandi and Jesus. It's not that INTJs are evil, its that they view themselves separate from humanity (IME), and with T tend to experiment, while INFJs, who also feel apart from humanity, use their perceived distance to learn about people and try and improve them. That's the Te/Fe difference.

INTJs have been the stereotype of many supervillains. They have some weird motive (the Joker wants to play against the rules just to see what happens and the Saw guy wants to see how far people will go to preserve their life) and have the tactical genius to string along the hero(s) for a long time.
If the world is against INFJs, how do you maintain that disposition without it leading to trauma?
 

Skyward

Badoom~
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
1,084
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
9w1
If the world is against INFJs, how do you maintain that disposition without it leading to trauma?

I'm too awesome to get traumatized by another person's opinion. :D

^ THAT is how I maintain the disposition. The INFJ I know does too.

And how is the world against INFJs? Most people ignore us or hide from us because we can easily find their faults. The rest don't know about us or are themselves.

I've found the word I'm looking for.

'Phantasm'

[Edit] INFJs suddenly scare me.

Perfect! I feel like that a lot too. Explains why I listen to cult metal like Therion a lot.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
5,585
MBTI Type
INfj
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451
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I get that a lot too. People want to help me, a lot. They think I'm all "fragile" or something or secretive, silent. They say my face says it all. It's true, I usually make a face instead of saying anything.:cheese:

i find i'm the opposite.

actually, it's hard for me to make faces. seriously. i feel weird talking about myself this much, but people seem so freakin fascinated :) by infjs that, well, it's gotten me to think about my facial expression, my voice, and my eyes. like i said, efficiency is a major trait of mine and as such i realize i don't even like putting energy into facial expressions. i basically carry the deadpan 'yesteryear' stare when i am at my most comfortable. even smiling can be taxing, unless it's for a camera photo (ugghhh!) or to a stranger so i don't come off like a royal b____. i am extremely full of mirth and vim and vigor, and can laugh a lot, but i rarely waste energy in smiling or making faces of any sort, to my family or friends. i'd rather just put it in words and be direct about it, whatever i need to convey.

like my expression, my voice too can be just deadpan. to record a cp message on my phone i have to try really really hard to pep up my voice so i don't literally sound mad, or totally depressed; basically without affect. even then, after trying my hardest i just sound normal, not very peppy! i think it's the same thing with the voice--just don't wanna waste energy on it or something. it's subconscious.

finally, i always wondered why i could not look people in the eyes very easily. all my life (until discovering i'm infj) i've felt slightly guilty or weird about this. i've tried to force myself, and do force myself with strangers or friends, etc., but overall prefer to keep my eyes downcast and not make eye contact even within my family. my pics on type c illustrate this! it just takes too much time and energy to look people in the eye all the time. i think this isn't good with my kids or husband, so i'm trying to make more effort in this regard, but it's not what i'd naturally do. as far as making eye contact with lovers, that's what's really difficult. almost impossible. i guess because it's just too revealing for me. my take on it is that i'm so open and pure raw intuition and feeling, that to bare my soul through my eyes feels like exposing a newborn's skin to burning hot sunshine. when i make love with my husband after all this time, i still have to gradually get comfortable with him and in the zone before i look into his eyes, and then not very long, because i feel very vulnerable, even with the person i trust the most in my life.
 

Skyward

Badoom~
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
1,084
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
9w1
i find i'm the opposite.

actually, it's hard for me to make faces. seriously. i feel weird talking about myself this much, but people seem so freakin fascinated :) by infjs that, well, it's gotten me to think about my facial expression, my voice, and my eyes. like i said, efficiency is a major trait of mine and as such i realize i don't even like putting energy into facial expressions. i basically carry the deadpan 'yesteryear' stare when i am at my most comfortable. even smiling can be taxing, unless it's for a camera photo (ugghhh!) or to a stranger so i don't come off like a royal b____. i am extremely full of mirth and vim and vigor, and can laugh a lot, but i rarely waste energy in smiling or making faces of any sort, to my family or friends. i'd rather just put it in words and be direct about it, whatever i need to convey.

like my expression, my voice too can be just deadpan. to record a cp message on my phone i have to try really really hard to pep up my voice so i don't literally sound mad, or totally depressed; basically without affect. even then, after trying my hardest i just sound normal, not very peppy! i think it's the same thing with the voice--just don't wanna waste energy on it or something. it's subconscious.

finally, i always wondered why i could not look people in the eyes very easily. all my life (until discovering i'm infj) i've felt slightly guilty or weird about this. i've tried to force myself, and do force myself with strangers or friends, etc., but overall prefer to keep my eyes downcast and not make eye contact even within my family. my pics on type c illustrate this! it just takes too much time and energy to look people in the eye all the time. i think this isn't good with my kids or husband, so i'm trying to make more effort in this regard, but it's not what i'd naturally do. as far as making eye contact with lovers, that's what's really difficult. almost impossible. i guess because it's just too revealing for me. my take on it is that i'm so open and pure raw intuition and feeling, that to bare my soul through my eyes feels like exposing a newborn's skin to burning hot sunshine. when i make love with my husband after all this time, i still have to gradually get comfortable with him and in the zone before i look into his eyes, and then not very long, because i feel very vulnerable, even with the person i trust the most in my life.

I think a lot of that is how you express introversion. It's interesting how the same type shows things differently because the functions mix in different ways.

I tend to seem like someone that seems mentally 'uncentered' where I don't have a 'set' type of thinking and act very quirky. I feel like a pseudo-form of ENFP when feeling social, but not quite since I don't have one major obsession, but a few esoteric ones. Like Finland, Eurometal, Languages, Typology, Psychology, and Counterculture.
 

JohnDoe

New member
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
39
MBTI Type
INFJ
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8w7
I'm too awesome to get traumatized by another person's opinion. :D

^ THAT is how I maintain the disposition. The INFJ I know does too.
Seriously, I'm badass, and everyone knows it! :hi:
And how is the world against INFJs? Most people ignore us or hide from us because we can easily find their faults. The rest don't know about us or are themselves.
The world does not like INFJ's because we tend to remind people of what they could do if they tried.
 

Skyward

Badoom~
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
1,084
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infj
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9w1
The world does not like INFJ's because we tend to remind people of what they could do if they tried.

True dat!

Prolly why I fell hard for the INFJ I know even if I didn't feel the 'click.' Thankfully I extricated myself from that bit of nonsense (Yes, she's an INFJ, but our interests and values don't match well at all) and have taken attraction for her INFP sister instead :D
 

Oddly Refined

New member
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May 27, 2009
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230
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5
AND your name is a great way to describe an INFJ. In general, we're awkward in social situations but still carry ourselves like everything we do is on purpose. ENJs are still much better at it than us, either way.



That sounds right.

Were INTJs have masterminds like the Joker or the surgeon-sadist in Saw, INFJs have saviors like Ghandi and Jesus. It's not that INTJs are evil, its that they view themselves separate from humanity (IME), and with T tend to experiment, while INFJs, who also feel apart from humanity, use their perceived distance to learn about people and try and improve them. That's the Te/Fe difference.

INTJs have been the stereotype of many supervillains. They have some weird motive (the Joker wants to play against the rules just to see what happens and the Saw guy wants to see how far people will go to preserve their life) and have the tactical genius to string along the hero(s) for a long time.

I never idolized Ghandi or Jesus. I always found very flawed complex leaders more interesting.
 

Verfremdungseffekt

videodrones; questions
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
866
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INTp
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5w4
Just thought I should point out that on the front page, this topic appears as "The INFJ Facial...".
 

iwakar

crush the fences
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
4,877
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sx/sp
If the world is against INFJs, how do you maintain that disposition without it leading to trauma?

We don't. It is many years and many traumas till we sufficiently callous our tender spots.

I'm too awesome to get traumatized by another person's opinion. :D

Meanwhile FC3S, we use our ESTP shadow to put up a brave front. See above.
 
P

Phantonym

Guest
finally, i always wondered why i could not look people in the eyes very easily. all my life (until discovering i'm infj) i've felt slightly guilty or weird about this. i've tried to force myself, and do force myself with strangers or friends, etc., but overall prefer to keep my eyes downcast and not make eye contact even within my family. my pics on type c illustrate this! it just takes too much time and energy to look people in the eye all the time. i think this isn't good with my kids or husband, so i'm trying to make more effort in this regard, but it's not what i'd naturally do. as far as making eye contact with lovers, that's what's really difficult. almost impossible. i guess because it's just too revealing for me. my take on it is that i'm so open and pure raw intuition and feeling, that to bare my soul through my eyes feels like exposing a newborn's skin to burning hot sunshine.

I did this when I was younger. Looking people in the eyes was very awkward and I couldn't stand the intensity. I've tried to put more effort in the eye contact during conversations since then.

I'm fascinated by other people's eyes. The eyes tell a whole story. I've also forced myself to look people in the eyes during coversations and now I just can't look away. It must be with my desire to be in control, to read between the lines and maybe get something more out of the conversation than just plain words. As for myself, I'm always trying to keep the look in my eyes sort of "guarded" or behind this invisible wall so I don't reveal that much about myself.

However, this makes the other person very uncomfortable. I call this the "Conversation deathstare" :laugh:I try not to do it too much.

The eye thing is also why I hate when photographs are taken of me. I always look at people's eyes on the photographs. They're so revealing and I don't want to reveal myself that much.
 

nozflubber

DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,078
MBTI Type
Hype
No one's yet said how a personality type can lead to consistant facial expressions.... which I think is what he's looking for?

I have NFC but it would be an interesting research question. IMO, the only way this could be real is if there is an interaction between the parts of the brain that determine/relate to type, and the part of the motor cortex that controls facial muscle tension. This also makes sense when you realize just how Clumsy INFJS are :p They shouldn't be given driver's licenses IMO!


On a related note, I think I have the "ENTJ female gaze" narrowed down, as well :D


EDIT: on second thought, there may not be a direct neural link, but rather the facial expression they used could be operantly conditioned over time, but that doesn't really explain the consistancy of the INFJ Gaze
 

tibby

New member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
682
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fool
I did this when I was younger. Looking people in the eyes was very awkward and I couldn't stand the intensity. I've tried to put more effort in the eye contact during conversations since then.

I'm fascinated by other people's eyes. The eyes tell a whole story. I've also forced myself to look people in the eyes during coversations and now I just can't look away. It must be with my desire to be in control, to read between the lines and maybe get something more out of the conversation than just plain words. As for myself, I'm always trying to keep the look in my eyes sort of "guarded" or behind this invisible wall so I don't reveal that much about myself.

However, this makes the other person very uncomfortable. I call this the "Conversation deathstare" :laugh:I try not to do it too much.

The eye thing is also why I hate when photographs are taken of me. I always look at people's eyes on the photographs. They're so revealing and I don't want to reveal myself that much.

Get out of my head :laugh:
 

Asterion

Ruler of the Stars
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
2,331
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INTP
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5
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sp/sx
On a related note, I think I have the "ENTJ female gaze" narrowed down, as well :D

I like the idea of an ENTJ gaze... I'll have to look into this, a gaze can mean quite a fair bit to some people :smile:

Are INFPs better drivers than INFJs? I know it's kind of hard to approximate, ability is dependent upon the person and their own experiences, but anyways...
 

FC3S

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ENTJs have a gaze and demeanor which is what I normally use to type them.

I refer to it as forced mental projection
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
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Nov 7, 2008
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sx/so
Were INTJs have masterminds like the Joker or the surgeon-sadist in Saw, INFJs have saviors like Ghandi and Jesus.

Not sure about other incarnations of Batman, but Ledger's Joker is ENTP.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
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Feb 20, 2009
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I think a lot of that is how you express introversion. It's interesting how the same type shows things differently because the functions mix in different ways.

yeah, i thought more about that after my post. that introversion probably has a LOT to do with feeling comfortable with eye contact. and throughout my life i've identified as more or less introverted, depending. interestingly, my friends are surprised to hear i'm introverted cuz around them i'm so engaged and talkative. however, about the eye contact, i feel it's more than the introversion involved in the desire to look away.

and i have different stares too. i have the hard core steely stare when i'm looking at someone speaking and listening to them intently, trying to understand them (this looks like i'm mad), and then i have the dreamy-i'm-not-seeing-anything-outward-and-i-just-might-trip-on-something stare that i get when i'm hiking and my mind is totally somewhere else.
 

Redbud

New member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
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24
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INTP
My good friend is an INFJ woman. I have noticed over the years that I am always looking at her eyelids. She has very dramatic blue eyes and the longest blink time (while speaking) of anyone I have ever met. This is more of her 'social face' though. I think of it as her mask. She has told me before that she hates revealing anything personal about herself to anyone and will use her social skills to re-direct the conversation away from personal questions. She will look coy while speaking but shy at the same time. She typically has a fair amount of animation in her face and she will wear a deprecating half-smile while she speaks. While she is certainly capable of smirks they don't appear with the mask. When she is very comfortable with you or really worked up on a subject you can tell pretty easily because she suddenly targets you with those twin blue lasers and the half-smile entirely disappears from her face. Then you get real emotions. I recently watched a YouTube video of an INFJ woman and noticed very similar habits. Anecdotal I know...but that's my 2 cents.
 
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