[ENFJ] Frustrated ENFJ

[Afkan]

ok, Domino did the right thing in replying to the EIE stuff, so I will follow suit.

EIEs create their moods, more so than some of the other types.

Yes. And No.

Members of each circle will think differently of us, depending, in large part, on how they wish to see us.

Oh yes. I have always been amazed at the “impressions” ppl get of me. In a word, yeah yeah, this is “chameleon-like.” I consciously do some of it on my own, but most of its from others choosing of their own free will…but ppl need someone to idealize, so, whatever.
I remember when I was dating every guy seemed to think I was exactly what they wanted. I HATED this. I was constantly scratching my head, thinking, that is SO not me, if you really got to know me you so wouldn’t feel that way. I fast forward and find out if things would work out, generally speaking, and if its agreeable enough then I let someone get to know me. Otherwise, nope, no way….the “real” me will not be accessible.

Asks many questions, talks whenever the group is silent for too long. Can't handle awkward silence and will say just about anything to end it.

Not really, I love awkward silence, and I take every opportunity to capitalize. Its like a social experiment…you learn a lot of stuff… plus its soooo entertaining, hee hee hee…

However… if I am excited about something or have something to say I will literally jump up n down in my chair trying to contain myself until the silence ends.

And I do ask MANY questions. I tired a close entp gal I grew up w/ all the time with my questions. Rendered her speechless. She politely called me “inquisitive” all the time. She liked it. I think it made her feel useful. I picked apart everything she knew, and she shared all the random facts and oddities that naturally just magnetized to her brain. I loved it bc I could learn endlessly from her, without her become annoyed like most.

This is when they say things that give no information and don't make much sense. But it will serve a purpose as other people will start talking again.

Yes, and its fully intentional on my part.

I think of this as a “service” to the good of mankind and learning.

I would rather look stupid & ditzy than things to turn stale or stagnant.

They can easily make compliments, but those often sound like general impressions of things. "That dress... very cute! " or " Your speech was very... umm... I liked it very much and people were soooo intensely listening.". That's because emotions are often not easy to express with words. Using full sentences is not important to express the emotion. EIEs add emotive phrases, both in real-life conversations and in forum posts and blogs. "Nice!", "...ummm...", "heeeey", "you'know", etc.

Yes.

In a bad or average mood EIEs just look very contemplative and serious. EIEs look a bit sad, because they are. One possible explanation to the sad look is that everything they see is just a fraction of what it could be. Everything could have been better if they had just worked harder on it! Everything that we are doing could already be better if we hadn't made any mistakes during the process. Everything that we have done could have been better and everything that we will do could be better. And if we don't do anything, we're wasting time.

Yeah that’s what I’m talking about, with the achieving full potential…every minute of life is an opportunity, and lack of learning = time lost.

Every bit of info unlocks a door to an entire hierarchy of new learning, knowledge that we will NEVER discover even EXISTs unless...we make the most of every minute. that includes, above all else, personal growth and vigilant self-assessment. This is a source of much enfj anxiety

In addition, EIEs are really good at getting into roles and acting like the ones surrounding them want to act. At times, the EIE themselves will not notice this change and may even find it strange or awkward when it is commented on. If EIEs grow up around very tough-minded or moral individuals, they may play the role chosen for them for a number of years, all the while acting differently when the stern individuals are not present.

Yes. Although our roles are more about balance…in families, sure, roles are assigned but I bet all precocious enfjs decide what role is needed for balance.

Meaning, the stern parents would envoke a role of finding ways to loosen ppl up / out pissing those stern parents off. Or a stern enfj if parents are permissive or laissez-faire.

This may be reflected in parents or old friends constantly telling you that you were an angelic child and look what's become of you.

HA ha, my mom tells me that all the time.

EIEs are also not necessarily outwardly happy or cheery. They can be almost always serious or detached, and may require outward stimuli to relax or loosen up.

Um yeah, that’s why enfjs can hate being alone.

EIEs perceive the world as constantly changing, oftentimes for the worse. Therefore, society needs a mood killer so that people can finally focus on the problems. Regardless, an EIE can be identified by his relationships. EIEs have few truly close friends, with whom they share everything. Their default mood or state most likely reflects their parents ideal of a child. “Few people can handle their full intensity and those with weaker constitutions tend to back away.”

Yeah yeah, but we all learn to deal better. People usually want more of me not less, often to my chagrin.

An EIE can act in many different ways, but are usually willing to sell their soul for a friend to dump their problems on, I mean, share the load with.

Haha, funny. Sure I can relate to this but goll, set some boundaries, fool!
( )

 

[Venom]

awesome; so it sounds like you guys relate to the socionics type at least somewhat.

I chose to use wikisocion.org because I think its a much better sight than socionics.com. the later makes use of visual cues and other ridiculous stuff (long face, slender body etc ).

Heres the ENFj page ENFj

At the top of the page there are 4 nice links to other ENFj profiles of sort, housed on the site (subtypes/malefemale/domain). I for example built the profile I posted here by taking stuff from the "domain" page (linked at the top of the link above). The domains are pages that each type builds itself on wikisocion, apparently. Domain ... There are also some nice links at the bottom of the ENFj page (long winded russian translations that are fun to read ).

Socionics has some wildly different function definitions and function order theories. So I could understand if people didnt relate to both EIE and ENFJ. For some reason though, extroverted socionics and MBTI types seem to overlap really well (introverted types not as much).

Functions - Wikisocion

Model A - Wikisocion

Fe as a base (1st) function (ESE and EIE)

The individual is always in tune to the emotional flow surrounding him, and responds to it spontaneously and directly. He seeks out and creates activities where people are totally engaged in what they are doing. Something's value is directly tied to how much it arouses his (or another's) passion.
He is highly proactive about steering the emotional flow in the direction he himself considers ideal to a given situation. He may, for example, try to cheer people with jokes if he sees that they are too gloomy or, conversely, to get people to be serious and concentrated if they are too carefree during a crisis situation. Nevertheless, he believes emotions should be expressed as honestly as possible.

Ni as a creative (2nd) function (EIE and LIE)

The individual likes to predict the further development of the situations and topics that he is interested in. The individual applies his highly developed sense of vision not as an end in itself, but as a way of promoting the development of his more central interests and activities.

Se as a mobilizing (6th) function (EIE and LIE)

The individual tends to feel capable of achieving his goals, but hesitates on whether the path he is choosing is the right one. In these cases he needs to feel the support of others in order to be motivated to finally choose.
He likes to be involved in competitive and challenging endeavors and to see his will and personal power develop as he overcomes obstacles together with other people. However, he depends on others to provide the gusto and motivation for these endeavors.

Si as a vulnerable (4th) function (EIE and LIE)

Individuals who possess introverted sensing as a 4th function tend to be negligent to the effects of and have the view that aspects are of less importance than others for achieving their goals. They put a low priority on the physical, short-distance, here-and-now in relation to longer-distance and longer-term considerations. A typical manifestation is a lack of concern for small aesthetic details, since a greater focus is given on the opinion that, in the longer term, taking care of them is a never-ending exercise. This is also manifested in a relative lack of awareness of the immediate surroundings, as in noticing where objects may be if you don't have to deal with them particularly, and of your own physical sensations.
A lack of concern for small aesthetic details is more visible in the LIE; in the case of the EIE, the low focus on is more noticeable as a dislike for low-level practical details, such as filling up forms, signing documents, or filling tax returns.
Due to individuals who possess introverted sensing as a 4th function believing that Si aspects are of less importance, they tend to be thrown off course by unthought of, new or neglected introverted sensing matters.

The EIE is more likely to measure the comfortableness of conversation than other more physiological signs. Still, they are quite attuned to the the physical sensations others are experiencing and use the information to raise and lower the emotional conditions that those individuals are experiencing. In any case however, EIEs are prone to making errors in daily routine. This can include having little or no idea of where they put an object, allowing neglected responsibilities to pile up, or failing to remember important tasks given to them; excessive procrastination is common in EIEs. The EIE has little respect for people who seem to be too concerned with their health and comfort and who avoid straining themselves. The EIE feels that people who focus too much on caring for themselves will have no time to achieve anything worthwhile.
The EIE will feel empty and restless if he is in a situation where he is expected to just chill out and have a good time; he would feel that this undermines his devotion to realizing his abstract visions. He can only enjoy visceral contact with reality if it is accompanied by an active will to initiate such contact, to intentionally engage it. EIEs frequently reflect on experiences with others, both positive and negative, and are always bracing themselves for future problems (which mostly involve other people). This extensive planning of future engagements cause EIEs to often feel restless as they want to implement their goals quickly. In situations where they are forced to remain patient and idle, EIEs can dwell in their stress and neglect real problems.

etc etc. The site goes on forever and gives you seemingly unlimited ways to look at what is supposed to be the same thing (like mulling over a cube in you hand from different perspective angles).

If you get a chance to read the russian translation profiles you wont regret it . They are almost story like and put your type into a mini literary account.

Oh and heres one more I couldnt resist because it flies in the face of how NFJs "should act". I feel vindicated

Id block
7. Introverted ethics
EIEs generally refuse to conform to standards of what is acceptable and nice to say. Instead, they try to express themselves spontaneously — sometimes harshly, sometimes sweetly or kindly — not because that is what other people expect of them, but because that is what they actually feel at the moment.
EIEs understand interpersonal relationships and their own sentiments towards things and people, but they prefer to focus on the external side of these things (what happened, who said what and how they said it, etc.) and not dig around in people's minds or internal motives. They also dislike it when others express a negative evaluation of another; EIEs tend to view them as overly judgmental and closed-minded.
EIEs are usually hesitant about deciding how somebody internally feels about them if they aren't receiving expression from the person. If contact dwindles between themselves and another, EIEs frequently doubt that their relation is positive; if the person matters enough to them, EIEs can become overly consumed in trying to "solve the problem", and as a result tend to be quite overbearing.

 

[Afkan]

If you get a chance to read the russian translation profiles you wont regret it . They are almost story like and put your type into a mini literary account.

Oh I know...
I've read those old Russian translations on wikisocion, and...HILARIOUS. My fave goes something like, "When s(he) is in the mood, everyone is in good spirits. But when s(he) is not in the mood... Wo, Wo unto all."

HAha!!!! ..... WO, Wo unto all!!! That should be our "call", like a birds', when we walk into a room

 

[Domino]

lol Great stuff, BC.

"Wo, wo, unto all" it is then! Granted, it should be "woe", so how is this one pronounced?

Woo? Wuh?

Also, BC, that last bit about "Id block" - I think very well describes what I said about connecting people to their actions and words. The example I used earlier was offensive. The one following is more an art of war than anything.

That used to make me look and sound (and be accused of being) like a hardcase. I can't tolerate discrepancies. By that I mean people trying to be ambiguous or tracking back over themselves to reframe/format in an attempt to confuse others. It's like a little lawyer living in my brain, barking "Intention is ultimately irrelevant! The outcome is the same! Build a prison with their own words and let the incarceration begin!"

Granted, intentions do color the words and actions, but you can never expect to use anything as ephemeral and intangible as intentions in a solid case. You can carry them in your own mind, knowing what they are, and using them as a tool, but I think in the end, words and actions are outcomes of intention, and can be focused on.

I had to deal with someone IRL for that very thing. Words and actions = more than his gerbilling intentions ever amounted to. I was tolerant, hoping what I was seeing was simply confusion and personal emotional retardation, but I was ignoring my internal discrepancy system, and it kept getting triggered, over and over. I sat on it, trying to be "objective" because I get tired of being called a human guillotine, but I know personal salesmanship, manipulation (of facts and people) and smoke screens when I see them. (This is why I have to FLEE these situations because if others insist on making excuses for these types of game players, I have no choice for the sake of my sanity but to leave.)

When things like this are going on, I feel emotionally roiled and I HATE it. It's like Joe Strummer said in "Garageland" - you want to go sit in your garage with your BS detector and never come back out.

 

[jtanSis1]

To any ENFJ I give you this: your frustrated, dark world is truly wonderful to me in that you try so hard and give yourself no rest. How it makes me want to truly save you from it all and give you peace instead. Know that you are appreciated and cared about even in your darkest days.

 

[Koocoomoo]

Some of us have tools and would work on that, but once she's shining and new again she takes off.

Awww! =((
So true.
And SO SAD.

 

[Lily flower]

I was amazed to see an ENFJ desire the attributes of an INFJ. As an INFJ, I have always been totally jealous of ENJF's. While I feel like I stumble in social interactions, I see the ENFJ's I know charming everyone with their amazing personalities. It's like people are butter in their hands. How many times I have wished that I were an ENFJ instead of an INFJ!

As an INFJ, I also feel like I have the same intensity problems with people.

 

[LilyLOL]

I can relate to that. Good to know someone doesn't find this type of passion unnecessary and absurd.


Yay! Jaye is more awesome than awesome. I love spunky ENxPs. I gravitate towards them because we always have fun together.

You guys are awesome!

Honestly, although I have tried to subdue myself, my feeling is that if something it worth my time, it is worth my passion. If I dont feel passionately about it then I just dont really regard it at all. I would love to find more people who value this sort of passion.....

Cheers!

 

[Lily flower]

Well. It just seems to me that I'm constantly getting told that I'm too much even when I'm behaving myself. ESFJs are grounded and fun. INFJs are mysterious and sparkly.

I fall in a bad place between them. The hard parts.

I guess we are never happy with ourselves. I am an INFJ who has always wanted to be an ENFJ. If you feel isoloated, imagine being intense but introverted as well. I just love ENFJ's. To me, they are the most exciting people to know.