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[ENFJ] Help! INFP problems with ENFJ

thejames

New member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
17
MBTI Type
INFP
This is going to be kind of lengthy, but please read through it if you can.

I could definitely use some helpful advice.



It is supposedly natural for the ENFJ - INFP relationship to flourish (according to personalitypage.com, these relationship types are even best for marriage).


Now,

Being an INFP, I sometimes have difficulty verbalizing my thoughts in a concise, organized manner. I'm much better with some ink in my hand and a sheet of paper underneath.

Simply put, we INFPs spend a considerable amount of time inwardly managing our intense, dreamy thoughts -- so in social situations, surfacing such monstrosities takes a great deal of effort if we are to do so concisely.


Concisely -- the way Js like information handed to them.


So with my ENFJ friends, I often get cut off and judged too quickly, before I even get a chance to explain my complete thoughts. The INFP cannot be accurately judged or figured out too quickly, yet the ENFJ does this and then follows up like they're suddenly best friends with you.

This aggravates me, and I almost suspect ENFJs of being fakes.

They seem to go around making quick judgments of everyone based upon strong extroverted feelings, and even confront the people they bitch about with the same "best friend" attitude. How do I know they aren't bitching behind my back when they aren't acting like my best friend? Do ENFJs just feel that they need to be liked by everyone they meet? If so, that seems really shallow.


I care about my ENFJ friends, but on the flipside, the "me" they care about probably doesn't even exist. The "me" they know is just a scapegoat they created to leach good feelings off. Frustrating to no end.

And now, I'm falling for an ENFJ girl, and I have no idea why. I'm so attracted yet so frustrated at the same time.



If anyone has any insight, please share.

Especially ENFJs and INFPs who have had relationships with ENFJs.
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
1,858
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
54
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
enfjs believe in getting people do favors, adhere to manners, and looking good while doing 1 and 2. The problem is that I want to be in control, but can't truly have it with them around. Lose-lose.

Myself has been a pretty solid match for me in my 23 years so far. At least I know he's the same zodiac animal.
 

file cabinet

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Apr 23, 2007
Messages
411
> How do I know they aren't bitching behind my back when they aren't acting like my best friend?
if you get in an enfj's inner circle, probably not a problem. in my case, i feel it is necessary that i accept their behavior for what it is. it doesn't need to be construed as a bad thing and you shouldn't base your understanding on them through reading type descriptions.

a few years ago, i had a close female enfj friend and her behavior would make me feel jealous and perhaps resentful that she would give similar 'treatment' to everybody else. eventually i could and did accept her for who she was and looked at my own jealous feelings as something that were harmful to me and the relationship/friendship/whatever.

> Do ENFJs just feel that they need to be liked by everyone they meet?
they like to maintain a kind of general harmoniousness in social settings and are often likable people. their goal isn't to be "liked" by everyone.

> I care about my ENFJ friends, but on the flipside, the "me" they care about probably doesn't even exist.
i feel like that's an unfair leap against your your enfj friends.
 

Jonathanthegreat

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Apr 30, 2009
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166
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ENFJ
Just be patient and stick to your values. Also be sure to state them clearly, in a non-arrogant way and STICK to them. Because if you do, she'll admire you. Because you're a man of your word. Also, never fear a girl you like it will only do you harm. Enfj girls are awesome but can be a little crazy. GREAT lovers though, very caring/nuturing. IF they aren't already screwed up. haha
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
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Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
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1w2
I agree with you FC. These threads about people not being able to deal with Fe-dominants or not understanding how they communicate are quite curious to me. For the simple reason that so many people into typology believe that all Fe amounts to is social obligation and harmony it seems like it's a simple set of "rules" to follow to get along with a ENFJ or ESFJ. But it seems not to be the case. Could it be Fe is more than what people think it is? I can honestly say I come into contact with dozens of FJs on a weekly basis and I don't often have these problems people have. I totally have experienced the nightmare Fe stories, but they haven't occurred in greater frequency than any other function, if we want to single it out like that. Of course, I'm an FJ myself so they're not doing anything weird to me. I think it's because I recognize this aspect of Fe:

> How do I know they aren't bitching behind my back when they aren't acting like my best friend?
if you get in an enfj's inner circle, probably not a problem. in my case, i feel it is necessary that i accept their behavior for what it is. it doesn't need to be construed as a bad thing and you shouldn't base your understanding on them through reading type descriptions.

as exactly what it appears to be without accusing it of being fake. I really shouldn't let what people say on this forum affect how I interact with people in my real life, but sometimes I've become self-conscious just joking or engaging in friendly banter with people for fear of thinking I'm misleading them somehow. I feel like engaging with people who I only want to get deep down in it is such an insular existence. I don't personally go around thinking just cause someone is consistently friendly with me that they're my friend or we're anything more than acquaintances.

And sometimes I think that people who expect that, who have the attitude "I thought you were being gregarious with me because we had something" are unreasonable and selfish people. Who the eff are you? Do you have a bridge in Brooklyn you're trying to sell? Maybe I'm an attention whore, not in the sense that I want a lot of attention but in the sense that I give a lot of attention to people. *shrug*

I think that if you're special or different to an ENFJ they will make a clear distinction between you and everyone else. There will be a little extra oomph to the transactions between you and them. But the thing is, people interpret this differentness-- the fact they they do like you a little bit more as clinginess and neediness. In my mind, the more I go to you IS a signal that you're not like everyone else, that you HAVE become incorporated in my little constellation of stars. If you receive little IMs or texts from me it's my way of relating to you, that I don't do this to everyone else, this is how you're different. I think instead of concentrating on the ENFJ does this with everyone else, look for things that occur between the two of you that don't occur with everyone else.

And I'm saying this from a general Fe-dom perspective and not specifically ENFJ.

Do ENFJs just feel that they need to be liked by everyone they meet? If so, that seems really shallow.

Once again, from a general Fe-dom perspective, I don't realistically expect to be loved and admired by all. Maybe it appears that way to others? I know that generally I like to have casual/comfy/informal relationships with my colleagues at work and that's something I actively do because I value my professional image and I don't want my character and work efforts to be tarnished by bad professional relationships. I've asked people to do stuff for me that got done within 15 minutes while others have made the same request and it's taken weeks. I don't want to be actively disliked either. Ideal preference is for most people not to draw a blank when they hear my name and the general reaction to be "Oh, OK I know her! :)" I don't want to be unknown or ignored; I at least want people to know who I am. I make the effort to open a pathway between me and another person so that effort may come across as needing to be liked.

So perhaps that does come across as needing to be liked by everyone, but internally I don't feel like that's a goal of mine, it's a matter of being efficient in my dealings with people.
 

prplchknz

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yupp
\\


So with my ENFJ friends, I often get cut off and judged too quickly, before I even get a chance to explain my complete thoughts. The INFP cannot be accurately judged or figured out too quickly, yet the ENFJ does this and then follows up like they're suddenly best friends with you.

My room mate does this, and I try to provide an alternate possibility, it's preposterous. Like everyone has the same motives as her, and I'm like you can't know this much about the other person, as much as you think you do, you can't.
 

Amargith

Hotel California
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Nov 5, 2008
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ENFP
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4dw
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sx/so
I agree with Proteanmix on this, however, I would like to add that I've got an INFP male in my social circle and although he is generally well loved and thought of, he has trouble phrasing his words and thoughts in a smooth way, causing others to finish his sentences for him and teasing him a bit with this. I can tell he's sensitive to this, but he's...sorta accepted it, though occasionally you can see it still gets to him. We do not have ENFJS in the group however. So maybe this is just somethign that INFPs are...susceptible to in a group? I catch myself even doing this every now and again with him, though I usually really try and give him the time he needs to formulate his thoughts (it does take forever however). I can totally understand that you guys do get frustrated when someone a) finishes your sentence but maybe not as accurately as they think and then b) judge you for the answer 'they' gave and c) go on like nothing happened.
 

BlackCat

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And sometimes I think that people who expect that, who have the attitude "I thought you were being gregarious with me because we had something" are unreasonable and selfish people. Who the eff are you? Do you have a bridge in Brooklyn you're trying to sell? Maybe I'm an attention whore, not in the sense that I want a lot of attention but in the sense that I give a lot of attention to people. *shrug*

See, the thing is is that FPs are generally like that (or maybe IFPs). When we are actually bothering to open up emotionally to someone we really care. This is misleading to us when someone isn't doing this. I will honestly only open up to people I like, as for acquaintances they get my "surface face", meaning that they aren't really exposed to certain things that people that I want to connect to are exposed to. We seek to connect to people, and when someone is seemingly doing this by being nice, yeah. You can see where this is going.

Otherwise, posts pertaining to Fe people are interesting to me, so your post is indeed appreciated I'm sure. I'm seeing a view from "the other side", and even if I can't fully understand it (I can't apply it to myself) I can still acknowledge it. :)
 

proteanmix

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See, the thing is is that FPs are generally like that (or maybe IFPs). When we are actually bothering to open up emotionally to someone we really care. This is misleading to us when someone isn't doing this. I will honestly only open up to people I like, as for acquaintances they get my "surface face", meaning that they aren't really exposed to certain things that people that I want to connect to are exposed to. We seek to connect to people, and when someone is seemingly doing this by being nice, yeah. You can see where this is going.

Otherwise, posts pertaining to Fe people are interesting to me, so your post is indeed appreciated I'm sure. I'm seeing a view from "the other side", and even if I can't fully understand it (I can't apply it to myself) I can still acknowledge it. :)

I understand what you're saying. The difference for me is that I see that "surface face" as the opening move. I guess I realize that while it's not fake, it's not a full representation. That's just the basic assumption I work from just as you work from the opposite assumption. Otherwise, it's like a grace period or when you sign a contract and you have 72 hours to renege. It's not that strict of course, we see if we like each other enough to go any farther and if we're like meh I don't want to do this, it's easy to escape with no hard feelings. I feel like it gives people a way out with the implicit understanding that we were just "being nice." A trial period. Of course, you can fast forward through that. I've really never become close with anyone that way it's always developed over a period of time and then BAM! we just were. I'll typically have a feeling that this person seems like someone I can get to know better. I'm not sure when or how it morphed but it did at some point.

I've met people and I don't know if they're FPs or not who I felt where getting too personal too fast and I had to quickly figure how to orient myself to them. I think that disorientation was the Fe scrambling to navigate socially. In that sense, yes, the Fe was rule bound in that something in the transaction didn't occur sequentially. I noticed with my INFP boss I think she thinks I'm formal with her even though we've worked with each for nearly three years. I probably am because I don't want our relation to each other to shift because I'm not interested. So I keep that slight formality in place. I never just walk into her office, I always knock and wait for her to invite me in, I only talk about my personal life with her when she says something about her personal life. I never asked who the people in her pictures on her desk are, I didn't ask what the significance of the knickknacks in her office. I don't ask any probing questions about how she liked her vacation or stuff like that. When you're dealing with an FJ you have to learn how to interpret their individual use of Fe, not plaster the idea of Fe as a whole onto that person. It always manifests itself individually and customized through each person.

Yet another sign if an ExFJ has taken a personal interest in you, what is the type and quality of interest they pay? If they're asking generic questions that never seem to get any more personal then don't think anything of it. Another thing is they may be waiting to see how much initiative you're going to take. If I think I'm barking up the wrong tree, I'll back off. I feel like this could be a general miscommunication issue though. Maybe I should start a thread about how to interpret Fe-speak?
 

runvardh

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I agree with Proteanmix on this, however, I would like to add that I've got an INFP male in my social circle and although he is generally well loved and thought of, he has trouble phrasing his words and thoughts in a smooth way, causing others to finish his sentences for him and teasing him a bit with this. I can tell he's sensitive to this, but he's...sorta accepted it, though occasionally you can see it still gets to him. We do not have ENFJS in the group however. So maybe this is just somethign that INFPs are...susceptible to in a group? I catch myself even doing this every now and again with him, though I usually really try and give him the time he needs to formulate his thoughts (it does take forever however). I can totally understand that you guys do get frustrated when someone a) finishes your sentence but maybe not as accurately as they think and then b) judge you for the answer 'they' gave and c) go on like nothing happened.

I get this problem with most Es, not just ExFJs. Actually, my grandmother and great aunt both give me time to get it out first before jumping on it and I'm darn sure they're both ExFJs (great aunt seems more N, grandma is just more overall understanding).
 

Tiny Army

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Jan 12, 2009
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Aw, OP, you seem to be one of those many INFPs I have seen who ends up squished under an ENFJs thumb. I have noticed among my friends and family member that the right kind of INFP often gets completely emotionally plowed over by the ENFJ in their lives. Dominant Fi and dominant Fe are very different. It can be incredibly hurtful for Fi to feel as though they're not being listened to and Fe can often seem as though it's serving some sort of emotional agenda, but it's not. Fe-Ni doesn't often realise when it's hurting someone. Let your ENFJ friends know how you feel. Cite examples of their behaviour and then (this is what usually does the job) tell them you don't want to see them for a while. Nothing snaps an Fe user to attention better than the threat of being removed from a community.
 

bearette

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Jan 14, 2009
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infp
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4
I have a theory (ENFJ's correct if I'm wrong). ENFJ's are nice to everyone, not because they are "fake" but because they just have a need for harmony. actually, INFP's are not so different. I have been accused of being "too nice". It's really hard for me to be rude or even not nice, even to people I don't know. Is that fake? No, it just means I value repsect for others and don't want to create disharmony. The difference between that and an ENF is that ENF's are extroverts, so they actively seek to be nice to others, as opposed to INF;s, who don't go around with a smiley face all the time, but who are usually nice to everyone on principle.

now, as for how to know "when an ENFJ REALLY likes you", I think the answer is, do they allow themselves to be vulnerable around you? do they talk about their personal feelings and personal history? if so, I think that means they trust you and consider you close to them.
 

ENFJ_Catholic

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May 23, 2009
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Not to speak for all ENFJs (but for most in general), we ENFJs do truly desire harmony. It's something that we need, and we might fly off a handle sometimes when there's a "discordant chord," so to speak, constantly being banged.

Bearette is correct. We actively pursue a route of friendly interaction for growth. That said, we are not always so easy to open, compared to other extraverts. We require some trust and safety before we fully open all of ourselves. It helps if it helps you grow.

Any personality type can use their gifts for ill will though. Just a thought.
 

chris1207

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Apr 11, 2008
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XNXX
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3w2
It really makes me sad that there are so many topics about INFP's not understanding ENFJ's and feeling hurt. I think that INFP's are awesome and are amongst my top 3 faves. It's almost like I feel somewhat responsible for my ENFJ brethren. How old are these ENFJ's btw?

I find that as I mature I've toned down my Fe "blanket" that doesn't say anything that could possibly be construed as something that creates social discord. It's funny really. One of the main reasons why this has occurred is because, for one reason or another, I developed the occasional nervous twitch. I've never had anyone point it out and I've checked in the mirror, but I don't think it's at all noticeable. I can feel it though and as a result began avoiding a lot of the eye contact and thus general responsiveness to people I used to have. This has become something really excellent for me because I feel so much more able to express myself and don't feel suppressed by their presence.
I only really use Fe as defined by this topic with people that I don't know that I have to deal with, now. It's been such a liberating process. I've even begun enjoying being a smart-ass on occasion.

This year has been a major one for me, in terms of emotional growth.
 

ENFJ_Catholic

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May 23, 2009
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I agree. I love INFPs :wubbie:...they're mysterious and just so intriguing. I just wish they'd not hide so much!

We ENFJs DO care!
 

ENFJ_Catholic

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May 23, 2009
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How mysterious could they be if they did that?

Let's see if I can approach this from an NT POV...

Mysterious has an end, just like a mystery book that obviously has an conculsion, a resolution of what was the mystery. If INFPs remain this unsolved mystery...they do become a vainless search for NF wonder.

Not that you would understand these "head-in-the-clouds," "pie-in-the-sky" hopes of having both mystery and comfort all at once.

As an ENFJ, I like constructs, comforts, and having things settled. The INFP helps me be more mysterious...jumping outside the Judging that I might lean on too much. When they use the NF, it usually helps to meet me where I am.

Is that enough justification for my problems with INFPs? It's just role-reversal of what problematic ENFJs have caused INFPs for years.

Relationships weren't build to be easy.
 

Orangey

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Jun 26, 2008
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^^I gotcha ;). I was just kidding around, but I see that you didn't take it as such. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 

The Grand Chameleon

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I care about my ENFJ friends, but on the flipside, the "me" they care about probably doesn't even exist. The "me" they know is just a scapegoat they created to leech good feelings off. Frustrating to no end.

Batman once told me, "it's not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you." Your ENFJ friends are most likely basing their image of you off of how you carry yourself around them. You might feel differently than they see, but it doesn't mean they are wrong about you. You may both be right; in a more intense 1v1 setting that they don't see, the you in your mind may show, while with them the "me" you describe may come on strong.

(Rhetorical, not directed specifically at you) If there is an "infinite" to you that no one seems to get, what are the chances of you understanding infinite as well? It's important to know yourself before telling others how correct they might be in assessing you.
 
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