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[MBTI General] Why NFs think that they understand NTs ?

PeaceBaby

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And in the interest of concisely answering the OP, if indeed it is based on sincerity:

I have had a few close relationships with NT's over the years. I do not claim to know what is bothering an NT, but I can usually tell there is something internally amiss even if they do not yet perceive it themselves. But I can't claim to know WHAT that something is, so in an effort to dig deeper, I sometimes try to put myself in their shoes to see what that could be. This effort would yield an accuracy of perhaps 50-70%, depending on the relationship and on how well I know them.

I am interested in an NT's "thinking side" but they are often dismissive of feelings so this can be off-putting and a barrier to closeness.

In some NT's I have sensed depth yet upon probing found none, or alternatively, none was chosen to be revealed to me. So I have learned to be judicious with assumptions in this regard.

Hope that helps you.
 

Sentura

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LOL @ the NFPs making assumptions about motivations, rather than answering the frigging question!

Prosecution rests. :D

so now you're labeled NFP for making remarks towards certain member's curiosity? excellent argument, daddy-o. :rolli:

i can't answer this question, because i consider myself just as much NT as i do NF.
 

Salomé

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Sigh, I know you don't like me dear, but can you try to look passed that and maybe take a look at what I'm trying to say, instead of getting bogged down in details and what not. I doubt that with your intelligence you're really not getting what I'm trying to say, however flawed my English is in your opinion.. Maybe you and your NT-logic can help me fill in the gaps you so seem to get hung up on. Ya know, put your personal feelings for me aside and help each other out for a change, in order to get somewhere with this topic?

Otherwise, I might have to assume that maybe you enjoy complaining about this supposed flaw in NFs, instead of trying to actually get beyond that and find a solution. And then there's no point in further discussing this, at least imo.

Ha! Classic. I attack your weak reasoning and inability to communicate what you mean and you have to pull out the "sigh, poor little defenceless me, blue doesn't like me" card. Kinda pathetic. Don't engage if you don't want to be challenged and stop trying to make everything personal.

And, just how many assumptions can you squeeze into one post? Impressive!
 

Amargith

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Ok so you're not interested in actually discussing the OP and getting somewhere. Figured as much but it's good to know.
 

Salomé

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Sorry bluemonday, you've just made an inaccurate assumption about the intention of my post.
I made no assumption.
It's the intellectual dishonesty that really sticks in my throat. You can't even see what you are doing when you are doing it. So instead you employ projection. It's hopeless.
Well, it's not entirely hopeless. But it requires a fuck-load of humility. And most of you just don't have that.
 

Salomé

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Ok so you're not interested in actually discussing the OP and getting somewhere. Figured as much but it's good to know.

False assumption. I've contributed a good deal to the discussion. Take your head out of your rear.
 

Athenian200

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LOL @ the NFPs making assumptions about motivations, rather than answering the frigging question!

Prosecution rests. :D

They do that all the time. It's so embarrassing. :doh: They tend to see and judge everything in terms of purity of motivation.

The worst part about it is that they made an implicit moral judgment about how it's acceptable to collect information that other people might not share. Even if he is doing that, it doesn't hurt anyone.

This is why the NTs always win. I tell you, they're holding us back. :dont:

(Yes, I'm generalizing very, very badly. The nature of type tends to require that.) ;)
 

PeaceBaby

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I made no assumption.
It's the intellectual dishonesty that really sticks in my throat. You can't even see what you are doing when you are doing it. So instead you employ projection. It's hopeless.
Well, it's not entirely hopeless. But it requires a fuck-load of humility. And most of you just don't have that.

How vitriolic. Who's emotional now? :rofl1:

Can you not express yourself without descending to name-calling? I have projected nothing on to you and only proposed an alternative hypothesis to get people thinking around here. Why everyone gets sucked into these pedantic diatribes instead of just remaining rational is unclear.
 

PeaceBaby

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They do that all the time. It's so embarrassing. :doh: They tend to see and judge everything in terms of purity of motivation.

The worst part about it is that they made an implicit moral judgment about how it's acceptable to collect information that other people might not share. Even if he is doing that, it doesn't hurt anyone.

This is why the NTs always win. I tell you, they're holding us back. :dont:

(Yes, I'm generalizing very, very badly. The nature of type tends to require that.) ;)

Yes you are generalizing. Then why do it?

I made no implicit moral judgement at all. You are assigning it a moral value.

And yes, it is disingenuous to ask one question with no real interest in the answer. It is difficult to believe in the purity of the post when it goes on and on with no real purpose anymore asking the same questions over and over ad nauseum.
 

Sentura

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I made no assumption.
It's the intellectual dishonesty that really sticks in my throat. You can't even see what you are doing when you are doing it. So instead you employ projection. It's hopeless.
Well, it's not entirely hopeless. But it requires a fuck-load of humility. And most of you just don't have that.

assumptions, assumptions, assumptions.

really, stop being a hypocrite.
 

Lady_X

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i wish i could join the discussion but damn 27 pages.
 

Amargith

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i wish i could join the discussion but damn 27 pages.

Don't worry, the discussion kinda turned out to be rather pointless due to communication problems, despite the OP being promising. You didn't miss much.
 

Virtual ghost

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Sorry bluemonday, you've just made an inaccurate assumption about the intention of my post.

:doh:

We NF's tend to accept AS-one's initial post as a genuine desire to understand, yet I am postulating an alternate hypothesis simply in the interest of shaking the tree, exposing the fact that there are likely other factors at play than a "desire to understand". I am not buying that anymore; these continual threads revolving on the topic are just provocative, and I am not seeing any evolution in AS-one's understanding.

My gentle advice to NF's: just don't take the bait. AS-one, you need to get out in the real world rather than the forum to better understand the dynamics you claim to seek.

I wish you every success in this endeavor. :yes:

Well,if you must know I am thinking about stoping.
I have bombarded the topic from all side and got pretty much everything I could and things are starting to run in circles. Plus there is a way too much "politics" in this at the moment.

I know that a few months I have said that I will stop.
But I have made some changes in topic and continued further.
Before it was more about me, now it is more about others.
 

Athenian200

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Yes you are generalizing. Then why do it?

Because I'm an N and I prefer focusing on overall patterns rather than details?

I made no implicit moral judgement at all. You are assigning it a moral value.

That might be valid. You might have just been making fun of him or making a random observation because you perceived that to be his motivation, rather than seriously judging him.
And yes, it is disingenuous to ask one question with no real interest in the answer. It is difficult to believe in the purity of the post when it goes on and on with no real purpose anymore asking the same questions over and over ad nauseum.

Way to completely miss the point. :rolli: In one breath you say I (not you) assigned it a moral value, and in the next you confirm using the value you just denied judging things according to?
 

PeaceBaby

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In one breath you say I assigned it a moral value, and in the next you confirm using the value you just denied judging things according to?

I assigned it the value you did in order to validate your moral compass.

You assigned it a value so I interpreted accordingly.

(Quit editing your posts LOL; I just posted three answers to this and have to amend them based on your amendments.)
 

Haphazard

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Okay, I'm going to go ahead and guess that NTs and their (nonexistent) emotions are kind of like pregnant women.

You never ask the woman anything about being pregnant UNLESS they 1) tell you, or 2) proving it right in front of you, and in the case of #2 they probably won't be giving you much else than screaming, anyway.
 

Athenian200

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I assigned it the value you did in order to validate your moral compass.

But... but I only assumed you were assigning it that value, because you having that value was the only reason I could think of for making the comment you did. I don't actually have that value. I just thought you did.
You assigned it a value so I interpreted accordingly.
Well, if they're not my values, and they're not your values, whose are they? Great, I guess we both read incorrect motivations into one another. The NTs are right. We're all stupid. :doh:
 

Amargith

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Okay, I'm going to go ahead and guess that NTs and their (nonexistent) emotions are kind of like pregnant women.

You never ask the woman anything about being pregnant UNLESS they 1) tell you, or 2) proving it right in front of you, and in the case of #2 they probably won't be giving you much else than screaming, anyway.

:rofl1:

Oh, that's awesome.
 
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