[MBTI General] Why NFs think that they understand NTs ?

[Lady_X]

First I want to thank everybody for reminding me why I don't socialize more often.

Also I must say that most of you are acting like children in this thread. If you want to lead your private little wars you have visitor massage and PMs and I mean it.
get over yourself dude.



Since I am the only NTJ around I will try to make something out of this thread.

Ok, I will make a new start.
But this time I will make more concrete qestions what should help preventing things from turning into useless arguing.


I am wondering if NF can sense a deficit of empathy in other people even if it is not really obvious. Or do you just have hunches that are sometimes right and sometimes wrong? Do you feel intimidated in te presence of that person even if everything works fine in the communication ?

Feel free to use your experiances.

i don't probe people for a lack of empathy but i do feel like i can pick up on someone's emotional state. even in an unemotional person i can sense frustration with them trying to get their point across or excitement about what they're saying or confidence or lack of in their point or their curiosity about rather i'm understanding them. i don't know what that is...but i do feel like it's usually pretty right...but no...i don't think i know what exactly they are thinking just how they feel about it and no i don't feel intimidated by te presence i feel frustrated conversing with someone with a closed mind who won't listen to another perspective...but not intimidation...no.

and i don't care who is right or wrong...it's just about communicating both points and it's tricky when you're coming from a different place and i don't think it's common for anyone to truly understand another and i don't believe being able to is type related. it's just about communication.

and i'm sorry, if that's not really relevant. just read a few posts in addition to tis one and the op.

 

[Domino]

I'm glad to have shown you the error of your ways, madam! *smacks ruler with dinosaur holograms on desk* *pieces go flying* [dramatic air of gravitas]

[eats Amy with some tasty mustard]

Yes, agree. I think there's an issue that the thinker profile might draw some people who lack empathy to label themselves as thinker, but that doesn't mean that they are necessarily all that in their logic nor that thinkers as a whole lack empathy. Socialized psychopathy does not necessarily equate with thinker.

Good point. That's a major distinction - being "cold/remote/affective" emotionally does NOT mean one is logic-based or even particularly intelligent when held against the general background noise of abnormal IQ test takers coloring in their little ABCD circles. Take one of your favorites, Heart... Saint-John from "Jane Eyre". Is he not Fe but completely disconnected from his emotions?

 

[heart]

Good point. That's a major distinction - being "cold/remote/affective" emotionally does NOT mean one is logic-based or even particularly intelligent when held against the general background noise of abnormal IQ test takers coloring in their little ABCD circles. Take one of your favorites, Heart... Saint-John from "Jane Eyre". Is he not Fe but completely disconnected from his emotions?

That's a great example. And who has greater depth of empathy for the suffering of other souls than Te Edward Rochester ? Even for the animalistic wife who has caused him so much pain.

 

[Amargith]

*covers herself in the strong kind of mustard*
*readies a pitcher of water*

 

[Domino]

That's a great example. And who has greater depth of empathy for the suffering of other souls than Te Edward Rochester ? Even for the animalistic wife who has caused him so much pain.

Indeed! Edward was actually way more emotionally aware (i.e. cued into Jane's feelings, understanding of his own wants) and compassionate (i.e. not wanting his lunatic wife to be injurious to herself or others, not casting her out of the house dishonorably) than someone, a near robot, like Saint-John who I have been swayed to believing is INFJ. His zeal wasn't available to humans, just God, just cosmic unattainable ideals.

*covers herself in the strong kind of mustard*
*readies a pitcher of water*

I love this thread! It has everything!

 

[Litvyak]

I'm moving to Croatia! I like the sound of your hospitality!

This topic was useful after all.

 

[TaylorS]

Indeed - some NT's believe their because their assumptions are based on logic, they are no longer assumptions somehow; they have evolved into factual statements.

I have noticed a tendency of NTs rationalizing repressed irrational sentiment into objective-sounding pabulum.

 

[TaylorS]

I am wondering if NF can sense a deficit of empathy in other people even if it is not really obvious. Or do you just have hunches that are sometimes right and sometimes wrong? Do you feel intimidated in te presence of that person even if everything works fine in the communication ?

Feel free to use your experiances.

I run into this every day at work, I'm constantly reminding a high-functioning autistic ISTJ co-worker to think about the feeling of others. Of course I have Asperger's as well so I guess that makes it easier to get into his head...

 

[Virtual ghost]

I have waited for replies so I guess that it is time to explain some things.


I think that I am quite likely to come as a sociopath or something similar.
Usually this comes form Fs.
Which is because I am quite cold and calculated. Often I just hide how much I calculate since many people find it creepy. Especially since I can just analyse sitation and emotion in the sitations and treat peoples emotions just as varibles in my plans. Even if I suck at deeper understanding of them.


It happened that a person was telling me how his female friend almost got raped last night. But that that did not trigger an emotional response from my side. I mean this kind of things can make me quite socially awkward.
But all of this does not mean that I think that the person should have been raped.

Also have even noticed that people which are beging money have the tendency to just skip me and continue with the person behind me. What suggest that I don't give too good vibes.
I wonder if other INTJs have noticed something like this.


But I know what I am going to during the next 6 months since I always have some kind of a plan or goal. I know that sociopaths are not much of a planners but people see links none the less.
I don't have OCD I am just unspontaneous.


Opinions ?




This entire "I am becoming more social" can actually be described as a victory of my Te over my schizoid nature. Since Te can't be channeled properly anymore with so much introversion going around.

So however you turn it I have a deficit of fluffyness.
On the other hand all of this is exactly why people find me interesting.

 

[Moiety]

On the other hand all of this is exactly why people find me interesting.

Until you kill all of their family with a chainsaw!!







Jk

 

[Virtual ghost]

Until you kill all of their family with a chainsaw!!







Jk

I know it is a joke but I have the tendency to trigger this whetever it is a joke or not. So I am wondering what is going on in peoples heads.

 

[Moiety]

I know it is a joke but I have the tendency to trigger this whetever it is a joke or not. So I am wondering what is going on in peoples heads.

Nothing, man. Not in mine. You're not as rare a person as you might think. I know people "like you", cold and calculated.

I'll admit that I do think those people would gain a lot by balancing that out with some emotional perspective but what do I know? You are who you are.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I think people tend to relate INTP/INTJ to sociopathic behaviour (mostly in jest ofcourse). Even though the two have little to do with one and other. But first appearances seem to have similarities to the average uninformed person.

I sometimes have the same effect on people. Like people saying "You're not going to kill me or something right?".

I can laugh about it mostly. It doesn't bother me.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Nothing, man. Not in mine. You're not as rare a person as you might think. I know people "like you", cold and calculated.

I'll admit that I do think those people would gain a lot by balancing that out with some emotional perspective but what do I know? You are who you are.

That is true. But I am not just cold and calculated.

Here is one old post of mine.

For example I think a lot, sometimes even longer that 8h in one piece and I do it usually after sun set or in darkened room.
Usually that thinking is about complex scientific and philosophical topics.
But when I do this I prefer to do it in darkness to prevent senses from slowing and destroying the process.


But catch is that somebody with time will enter the room. First they take a look in that dark room and then turn the light on. But only then they realize that someone is in the room and that someone is me giving them penetrating look which appeared out of nowhere for them. Because of this they can get a panic attack and they need about 30 seconds to calm down.
If I try to say something before they turn lights on the result will be the same because voice out of that darkness will scare them


Also what is confusing them is that I enjoy eating alone in atmosphere where you can barely see plate and fork. Sometimes if I have to eat in the light I just take my meal and eat it somewhere in the dark.
Probably most people are too S to understand this.

But generally all people dislike my ability to appear out of nowhere and they think that it is sick and totally creepy. Paranoid people have problem with this especially.


I remember that few years ago I scared one woman to death by accident.
I would say she was about 30 and probably some kind of an NF.

It was Christmas and it was night, somewhere around 8.00 PM and I was visiting grandfathers grave at local graveyard. When I was done I realized that weak moonlight and candles on some graves are creating wonderful atmosphere in this labyrinth graveyard so I decided to wonder around.
That was not my first time to do something like this.


Later I set my course towards the exit. But I ran into the probably only person on entire graveyard except me - women who is visiting grave.

I walk really fast (like other INTJs) plus graveyard is like labyrinth so from her perspective I appeared out of nowhere.
When she realized that she is not alone she freaked out and run away screaming.


Entire thing happened near exit so I run into her again when she was catching her breath beneath the street lamp. She said to me “Damn it man you scared the crap out of me and when you did not start to run after me it was such a relief - LOL”


After that we went separate ways.


Personally I really like to spend time alone in dark places.
It is the best atmosphere for abstract thinking and I somehow feel at home when I am in dark and quiet place.
Many people because of this say to me that I am total lunatic for doing this and living like this but to me this is one of the key parts of my personality and foundation of my success in life.

What I want to say is, if you have problem with people like me why do you have it?
This is not a joke.

I know, I should adapt to some social standards.
But I know that has almost nothing to do with NFs but people in general.
Actually, NFs have the chance understand this.

I think people tend to relate INTP/INTJ to sociopathic behaviour (mostly in jest ofcourse). Even though the two have little to do with one and other. But first appearances seem to have similarities to the average uninformed person.

I sometimes have the same effect on people. Like people saying "You're not going to kill me or something right?".

I can laugh about it mostly. It doesn't bother me.

I know exactly what you mean.

 

[runvardh]

That long quote of yourself, I do that more often than most people like. Most people can completely miss that I am an F because of this.

 

[TaylorS]

It happened that a person was telling me how his female friend almost got raped last night. But that that did not trigger an emotional response from my side.

Well, that certainly proves that I'm no TJ. When my friend was raped I was so worked up emotionally that I was physically sick.

And your lack of emotional response is extremely disturbing...

 

[INA]

I know it is a joke but I have the tendency to trigger this whetever it is a joke or not. So I am wondering what is going on in peoples heads.

Usually very little. Hence the rush to judgment.

On a few occasions, I've had feeler types brand me incarnate-evil-to-be-avoided just because I found something in a movie to be funny that they thought was horrible. In turn, I find myself having little regard for their powers of analysis, and then chuckle to myself when they start very nasty little skirmishes with people - of the sort I'd have to consider myself very silly to engage in. In general, these sorts of feelers (not all) seem to take a whole lot seriously and personally and are willing to make grand, false assessments based on precious little. They don't get it, but they're sure they do.

 

[CrystalViolet]

Well, that certainly proves that I'm no TJ. When my friend was raped I was so worked up emotionally that I was physically sick.

And your lack of emotional response is extremely disturbing...

Not necessarily....It's a pretty intense piece of information. I know I wouldn't neccesarily react at the time, that said and done, I'd mulling over it, and would probably react quite intensely in private.
My depth of feeling would more likely be shown in more practical measures.(like driving them to the police station, making sure they felt safe, that sort of thing) I can't count how many times friends have screamed at me for not reacting to things straight away....
Not that I'm defending AO, but lack of reaction doesn't equal heartless bastard.
Some bad things you hear about people kinda leave me scratching my head too- I'm mean what are you suppose to do with that (or do about it). It's not that I don't feel bad...but I can't do anything about it either.

And in talking about this, I suddenly think I understand the OP.
AO, do you mean like situations as above?
I may come across like I understand where you (as in NT) are coming from, but I don't really....it's more I identify with the situation.
We're not coming from the same place, but the reaction is similar.

 

[Virtual ghost]

That long quote of yourself, I do that more often than most people like. Most people can completely miss that I am an F because of this.

Would you care to explain this claim in more detail ?

Well, that certainly proves that I'm no TJ. When my friend was raped I was so worked up emotionally that I was physically sick.

And your lack of emotional response is extremely disturbing...

Why is it disturbing ? Ok the person got raped but getting depressed over this is stupid/pointless by my opinion. I am pretty sure that you could not control your feelings but that does not mean that your reaction is right thing to do. (Unless you are helping someone in need. )

I mean this is pretty much lose/lose if you look at it carefully.
I at least have lose/0 . If we presume that the ethic is the right way.



On the other hand imagine the world where people like me don't exist.
Imagine that someone gets raped and everybody start to freak out. What is not unusual scenario.
In the case like that I am exactly the kind of person you need around since I am not efected by this. What means that I remain my head cool and I am see what is going on clearly. While others are freaking out. I was in the kindergarten when I have dicovered that I have this strength and in some sitautions it was quite useful personality trait to have.


Maybe it is disturbing but I don't think that this is a bad trait if you take a look at the big picture.

 

[Salomé]

^True. One needs people who are calm under pressure. But being empathic doesn't require one to run around like a headless chicken. Can you imagine a world without empathy? Maybe that will answer your question about why it horrifies people. Empathy acts as a restraint against our lower impulses.