• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] Feelers: What Do You Really Think About Thinkers?

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
The brand of Ts that are invested in ego, drama, being rude, social dominance do not seem that clear thinking to me. There is a kind of fragmented objectivism that can be cohesive and enlightening in certain contexts, but then evaporates once ego is struck.

Thinkers who are divorced from their own feeling will see it in such a negative light that to them, all that they are is their intellect, skill, talent and ability. This is their sole reason for being here and to live their lives. When they may feel they are not as intelligent or able as they feel they must be to be a worthy person, they have nothing else. They stand there stripped to the bone, cut off from their only sense of self or worth as human being. So they must keep ego defenses up and believe deeply in the infalibility of their thinking and logic, as they have nothing else to believe in themselves about. Really it seems like a lot of inhuman pressure to live under and it would never relent as it comes from the self.

The Feeler divorced from thinking is in just as bad a situation.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Thinkers who are divorced from their own feeling will see it in such a negative light that to them, all that they are is their intellect, skill, talent and ability. This is their sole reason for being here and to live their lives. When they may feel they are not as intelligent or able as they feel they must be to be a worthy person, they have nothing else. They stand there stripped to the bone, cut off from their only sense of self or worth as human being. So they must keep ego defenses up and believe deeply in the infalibility of their thinking and logic, as they have nothing else to believe in themselves about. Really it seems like a lot of inhuman pressure to live under and it would never relent as it comes from the self.

The Feeler divorced from thinking is in just as bad a situation.
There are a couple of factors that can contribute to the mindset you described. The first is the Western cultural ideals set in place over the past century, and the second has to do with brain development.

Western culture as it moved into the Industrial Age and beyond explored this kind of extreme Objectivism that compartmentalized the thoughts and emotions in a way that mirrors the compartmentalization of society. There is a lot of literature both in philosophy and fiction that explores this cultural ideal. It helps to study other cultural ideals in order to be able to see how many of our assumptions and ideals are inundated by culture and are not a neutral, objective point of reference.

The emotional hardwiring is present whether or not it is acknowledged or accepted. The brain is just another organ which functions according to natural law. The frontal lobe is the area of the brain that regulates emotion. The individuals I have encountered that reject all emotion tend to be young boys, and occasionally girls, who are still developing their self identities. It is now considered that the frontal lobe does not complete development until around age 25. This can be more of a brain development issue than a personality or temperament issue. This is especially true on forums such as these since there is a rather high representation of individuals younger than 25.

link
Pearson said:
In an ensuing fMRI study directed by Yurgelun-Todd, 16 participants ages 12 to 17 also erred frequently when labeling the emotion on fearful faces. Those less than 14 years old answered incorrectly about half the time and yet showed the most amygdala activity, while older teens made fewer errors and displayed less activity in the amygdala and more in the frontal lobes than the younger participants did.

Previous studies had found that, when given the same task, adults label most fearful expressions correctly and exhibit much more activity in the frontal lobes than in the amygdala.

Edit: One thing should be clarified: in all my comments about compartmentalized vs integrated styles of thinking and the physical component of emotion in the brain, I want to be sure this is not taken to imply an assumption that emotion is equally distributed amongst all people. Compartmentalization does not by nature determine the size or number of emotional compartments so to speak. There are some individuals who could plausibly compartmentalize all emotion into the subconscious so that they don't consciously process any of it. This approach to categories could explain how some people are primarily logical in communication and yet incapable of applying logic in personal situations. It could also explain why some people take personal consequences into account in more scenarios, but still approach the problem solving in a rational manner. It also addresses the underlying confusions when these two approaches encounter.

This little epiphany has helped me understand my own thought processes. I would label myself as a highly integrated thinker who works at applying reason uniformly and whose errors in reason tend to result from including too much or the wrong type of data in a particular instance. My mind and behaviors as a whole are primarily consistent. This is what allows me to address extreme personal pain with more calmness and reason than some more compartmentalized thinkers are able to, and yet they also help correct some of my misapplied logic by helping me manage my data better. There are primarily logical thinkers who are mostly consistent, but there can still be a sense of compartmentalization, where logic is given a significantly sized compartment. There is still a difference if there are clear boundaries on that compartment, even if the resulting behaviors of each are consistent.
 

Tiltyred

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
4,322
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
468
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Ts drive me crazy nitpicking, and it's often without realizing what the discussion is really about, or what is really going on. They get snagged on the surface of some peripheral and won't let go of it.

On the other hand, out-of-balance Fs feel threatening to me because of the irrationality and the tendency to wallow or to need to induce feeling in other people.

Overall, I think Fs make decisions that turn out as well as Ts' decisions, even if they make them for different reasons.

For a mate, I'd rather have a T. For a friend, I'd rather have an F.
 
P

Phantonym

Guest
I don't get them. At all. I don't think I ever will. And I'm trying really hard not to let myself be caught into thinking that I do get them. Too much trouble comes from that.

But this doesn't stop me from being intrigued, fascinated, puzzled, frustrated and whatnot by them.
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
6,072
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
I think thinkers are awesome. Until they get caught up in being the "only" rational beings on the planet.
 

a24kar

New member
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
22
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
1
I think that there is a place in this world for all types of people. The question that I pose for die-hard Thinkers is this... "What is beauty?"
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Ts drive me crazy nitpicking, and it's often without realizing what the discussion is really about, or what is really going on. They get snagged on the surface of some peripheral and won't let go of it.

On the other hand, out-of-balance Fs feel threatening to me because of the irrationality and the tendency to wallow or to need to induce feeling in other people.

Overall, I think Fs make decisions that turn out as well as Ts' decisions, even if they make them for different reasons.

For a mate, I'd rather have a T. For a friend, I'd rather have an F.

+1

The nitpicking often becomes a hurdle in conversation. I dunno, maybe we're too nonchalant in wording, but sometimes you have to wonder if they do it as a strategy, in order to 'win', by bogging you down, or if they really don't understand what you meant, and totally missed the essence of what you were saying.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
As long as they're balanced, and not one of the Uber-logician type, I have little against them. In fact they can provide for intellectual stimulating discussions, although I'm not able to sustain it as long as they can. Not to mention the bantering they do with each other is absolutely hilarious. Again, I can't keep it up as long as they can. I do envy them on both scores. :blush:

Ts drive me crazy nitpicking, and it's often without realizing what the discussion is really about, or what is really going on. They get snagged on the surface of some peripheral and won't let go of it.
+1 You're not alone in being irritated by this. When nitpicking, they completely miss the point. That or when they just keep it up simply because they want to undermine your belief in your position, rather than actually argue their point.
 

PuddleRiver

It's always something...
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,923
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
5w6
Ts drive me crazy nitpicking, and it's often without realizing what the discussion is really about, or what is really going on. They get snagged on the surface of some peripheral and won't let go of it.


QFT, I tune out when they do this. I live with 2 of them. I've learned to hold my own, though, and give as good as I get. ;)
 

Lexicon

Temporal Mechanic
Staff member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
12,342
MBTI Type
JINX
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I wish we had a Feelers private forum so the SF could reply on this thread but we don't so...

Anyway, what do the folks here in the NF private forum really think about Thinkers?

I can really only offer my thoughts/feelings about intuitive thinkers, as opposed to Thinkers as a whole, because I haven't interacted with many of the STs, not long enough to develop/draw any definitive conclusions..

I tend to appreciate, if not envy, the NT minds. They seem to offer clarity in my own blind spots. I don't always feel like I offer the same, but I find their perspectives, criticisms, and overall analytical processes to be rather helpful, fascinating, & inspiring, in some ways.

I'd say I prefer their company to most Feeling types (no offense). :hug:
 

FinalFrontier89

New member
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
18
MBTI Type
ENFP
I think T's, specifically NT's are very admirable in a lot of ways. They don't let feeling cloud their judgment as we do. However, they also do not have feeling motivating them as much as we do. I think their utilitarian perspective can be a bit cold sometimes, and there are certain elements of the beauty of life they miss out on. However, as a whole, these are all more nitpicks than anything, as I admire T's for the most part, especially NTs.
 

Jonathanthegreat

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
166
MBTI Type
ENFJ
I admire NT's ability to do what they do. But from my experience in life a lot of NT's I meet and messed up in the head. Like just twisted wrong. I also think their mothers didn't hold them and tell them that they love them enough. Instead I picture a father scolding them constantly. Sad but true. A lot of ENTJ's I meet were usually abused physically, sexually, or verbally as a child.
 

FinalFrontier89

New member
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
18
MBTI Type
ENFP
I admire NT's ability to do what they do. But from my experience in life a lot of NT's I meet and messed up in the head. Like just twisted wrong. I also think their mothers didn't hold them and tell them that they love them enough. Instead I picture a father scolding them constantly. Sad but true. A lot of ENTJ's I meet were usually abused physically, sexually, or verbally as a child.

Wow.

Seriously, that's a bit harsh...maybe personal experience indicates that but that's not the case in general.

Honestly I'm a bit of an N elitist in general, so I have a lot of respect for both NFs and NTs, and I think NTs sense of...I guess you could say alienation and disillusionment with the world....is something I share with a lot of them. My type ENFP is supposed to be more of the jovial outgoing people person type, but I only sometimes act that way personally. I can be very brooding and angry a lot of the time.
 

Oddly Refined

New member
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
230
Enneagram
5
Generally, I like NTs. The thought process is useful and helpful. The observations can be used for reflection and evaluation. However, I can become frustrated when my NT friends become nitpicky as a defense mechanism. That can be problematic for communication. No one applies anything uniformly all the time.

On a personal note:
I like logic and strive to apply it consistently across the board as a means for managing my emotions. I've found striving to be objective and rational helps me function more effectively.
 

iwakar

crush the fences
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
4,877
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
It's a mixed bag.

I can respect the T-Dom. way simply because it is another way --not a better way, not a lesser way. This is a multi-dimensional world that requires multi-dimensional problem-solving and as individuals we naturally favor a method of choice, but we should not let it become a crutch when another method would serve. I don't often see this respect reciprocally expressed, but I have a hard time believing it is so one-sided. This thought produces questions: Are T-doms less likely to experience respect for F-doms because their intellectual pursuits do not lead them to a state of mind that recognizes 'alternative' as 'valid' till later in life? Or, do T-doms reach the pinnacle of mutual admiration at the same speed as F-doms, but there is a tendency to not verbalize it? Or is it just in my corner of the universe (read: narrow perspective) that F-doms disproportionately assign value to the T-dom way rather than vice-versa?

I really prefer the terms T-dom. & F-dom. because we are referring to a dominant inclination. Referring to people as Thinkers or Feelers creates a false dichotomy that implies Thinkers do not Feel, and Feelers do not Think. This is especially problematic for newcomers to MBTI psych. because it encourages a polarity that is antithetical to the gaps in communication it was meant to bridge. And unlike the other personality axes, this one seems to produce a disproportionate amount of hostility, resentment, and misunderstanding.

((Warning: INFJ mixed metaphor coming)) We're like insects with our environmental specialization, and sometimes we forget that when we move into new realms, our one "tool" is not sufficient any more. It takes a wise grasshopper to try a cricket's tool and achieve success in a complex, cohabitive environment.

Better together than apart, says I.

A hammer does not always do when a thumb-screw might suffice!

Edit: Nuts! It dawns on senso-tarded me that I can't get T-dom feedback here for my questions. :sadbanana: This calls for post relocating!
 
Last edited:

Jonathanthegreat

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
166
MBTI Type
ENFJ
I can respect the T-Dom. way simply because it is another way --not a better way, not a lesser way. This is a multi-dimensional world that requires multi-dimensional problem-solving and as individuals we naturally favor a method of choice, but we should not let it become a crutch when another method would serve. I don't often see this respect reciprocally expressed, but I have a hard time believing it is so one-sided. This thought produces questions: Are T-doms less likely to experience respect for F-doms because their intellectual pursuits do not lead them to a state of mind that recognizes 'alternative' as 'valid' till later in life? Or, do T-doms reach the pinnacle of mutual admiration at the same speed as F-doms, but there is a tendency to not verbalize it? Or is it just in my corner of the universe (read: narrow perspective) that F-doms disproportionately assign value to the T-dom way rather than vice-versa?

I really prefer the terms T-dom. & F-dom. because we are referring to a dominant inclination. Referring to people as Thinkers or Feelers creates a false dichotomy that implies Thinkers do not Feel, and Feelers do not Think. This is especially problematic for newcomers to MBTI psych. because it encourages a polarity that is antithetical to the gaps in communication it was meant to bridge. And unlike the other personality axes, this one seems to produce a disproportionate amount of hostility, resentment, and misunderstanding.

((Warning: INFJ mixed metaphor coming)) We're like insects with our environmental specialization, and sometimes we forget that when we move into new realms, our one "tool" is not sufficient any more. It takes a wise grasshopper to try a cricket's tool and achieve success in a complex, cohabitive environment.

Better together than apart, says I.

A hammer does not always do when a thumb-screw might suffice!

Edit: Nuts! It dawns on senso-tarded me that I can't get T-dom feedback here for my questions. :sadbanana: This calls for post relocating!

My INFJ friend Patrick says the same thing, very funny. He says : I believe we are all created to do our part.
 

kiddykat

movin melodies
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,111
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4, 7
I'm cool with most T's, especially mature ones. When I worked at a pharmacy, most of the people who worked there were T's and our conversations were pretty enjoyable..

I prefer NT's since we kinda get each other a little more. In fact, at the work place, having a balanced T/F section was great. I felt like the right-brained side of the place- where dealing with customers, pampering them was essential. Whereas the left-brained section- where all the high-risk stuff was taken care of, got taken care of.. Regardless, it was like a firing of the synapses, as we engaged in funny, friendly conversations. Lamooo.

If I had to marry one? I don't think so.. If the person's well-balanced? Then yeah. In terms of friends/acquaintences, I enjoy Ts.
 

Popsicle

New member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
176
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
I really like T's as a rule. I do tend to get along best with NTs, however.
 

silverchris9

New member
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
71
MBTI Type
ENFP
I have a lot of love for Ts. My three closest non-family friends are all Ts, now that I think of it. I appreciate the logical perspective, the frequent no-bs checks, and the efficiency (efficiency is more of an ST thing, though, I think). For NTs in particular, I appreciate how they're inclined to academic/intellectual pursuits; that's cool to me. Also, in my experience at least, thinkers tend to be less attached to some of the unnecessary rules of the world, which is awesomeness, imo.

My only complaint for thinkers would be that occasionally I worry that they miss out on the whole wonder-in-the-world experiences that I think feelers get more often, but I'm sure they get their daily dose of wonder in other ways. even if they don't experience or express it in the way I would.
 
Top