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[MBTI General] Feelers: What Do You Really Think About Thinkers?

Quiet

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Mar 1, 2010
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282
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INFJ
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Thinkers are interesting, and can offer a feeler a whole new perspective on an issue. Also, as a feeler, it's equally important to have a thinker acknowledge our feelings if we express them. It can seem at times, as though thinkers disregard feelings, but that is understandable because it's not their dominant function. Balance is important though.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
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sp/sx
There are some Thinkers I really like, but mostly at arm's length. I have noted that my closest friends are Feelers. Quite honestly, Feelers can seem more reasonable to me in many ways.

I've noticed there is often a devaluing of the Feeler by the Thinker, and I can't be close to someone who likes me as some sort of amusing pet, but doesn't fully respect me as an equal. The condescending, belligerent attitude of the NT gets old fast, as does the condescending, dismissive attitude of the ST.

Of course that is not true of all Thinkers, but it's true enough of many to make me wary. A Thinker has to be very mature, balanced and emotionally healthy for me to want to deal with them in any close manner.

Another annoyance I have with Ts is when they demand an explanation for everything, as if they are the sole judge of what is reasonable in the world. I don't have to prove everything I believe to you, okay Thinkers? That's particularly true of NTs. They assume that unwillingness to explain your view equals no reasonable thought behind it. What it usually means is I don't value their opinion and they are not worth my time and energy to explain why I feel the way I do. In fact, their arrogant assumption tells me a lot about them, and I may be testing them to see how able they are to respect other people's beliefs.

Oh, and stupid Thinkers are the worst! They often can't fathom they are idiots....so they have the unfortunate combo of being stupid & arrogant.

Oh yeah, and someone tell Ts that "emotions" is NOT a dirty word.
 

yvonne

A passer by
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Mar 1, 2010
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INfP
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5w4
yeah... it's pretty hard. i have two sides to me that are sort of battling. the other one is the thinker side and that side is interested in putting things to some kind of an order. it analyzes things so that my world is in an order i can safely go about my business.

that side is crippled, though, without the feeler side. that side is reliable in its realm, but it can make horrible mistakes with people.

my feeler side is hurt. i feel like it's a crippled bird. it could be strong, kind, brave and resilient, but it has gotten such a beating that i don't trust it to fly anymore... i feed it and take care of it and hope it grows stronger.

i am always interested in hearing people's opinions. i'm very wary of people who don't listen... i'm wary of arrogance and i'm wary of people who justify their abuse by... i don't know what. they don't even realize they're abusing others... i don't even know.

some people just seem very shallow to me... like they're resentful, suspicious... and just... that they don't even... realize.

as you can see, i'm in a bad mood.
 
P

Phantonym

Guest
Dealing with thinkers mostly ends up being utterly frustrating. They bring out the evil in me and I'd like to say that it's a learning experience but it's not. :( Maybe some day...
 
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yvonne

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it's like a different language. it's sort of like climbing the same mountain, but taking different routes. i think we need each other... you know, to occasionally throw more rope to the other. wasn't that cryptic? :D i've been loving these metaphors lately.

anyway... i really like balanced thinkers. the ones who are flexible and easy-going enough... but the rigid and overly arrogant ones piss me off, lol.

i can get into this mode to talk to the arrogant ones, too. usually i avoid them, because i can't be bothered... occasionally, if i see that they're a bit lost, i feel for them. they can be very vulnerable and i recognize that.

anyway... i have connected with them, but i need to put all my emotions away, be very articulate and this is important: confident. i might have come to my conclusions using my feelings AND my logic, but i have to present that conclusion to them when it is fully developed and i am certain of what i am talking about. then you have their attention. you have to explain some things to them that are "natural" to you and what you would understand intuitively with your feelings in their language.

i understand this, because i'm not a strong F. i value logic. i sometimes get frustrated when i notice that they falsely rationalize to keep their ego intact, but usually they manage to do it in ways that can make some sense, at least. i like Ts who can admit that they aren't always right, lol.

i dislike the immature and very insensitive ones. there are some pretty narcissistic and elitist Ts out there, but the same goes for Fs, as well. there are some pretty nasty, selfish Fs out there, also.

so it depends on the person... and i recognize that i make mistakes and misevaluations, too.
 

Jon_sparky

New member
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Mar 13, 2010
Messages
34
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
nine
I have trouble with thinker types, at least the smug ones. They are always correcting my grammar... I feel they sometimes tend to be closed minded, and have a very narrow view of the world around them. One good friend, who is a thinker, has a zero belief system in anything that is not face value, intuition is not in his vocabulary. It is ironic, because he meditates, but I think, what could he possible get from it?
Jon
 

ElizaJane

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Mar 21, 2010
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79
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INFJ
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6w5
I enjoy thinkers quite a bit. I feel like they balance me out and keep my perspective on track. (I love the idea of being logical and reasonable, but I can derail if someone gets under my skin.) I also find that they're not easily offended — low drama is always appreciated. But I have to admit that TJs can be a little harsh for me, even though I'm close to one myself.

But who do I call when I'm really down and need help? My F friends.
 

yvonne

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^ yeah... there's something about Fs that can put your mind at ease... maybe more correctly, put your emotions at ease.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
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I feel they sometimes tend to be closed minded, and have a very narrow view of the world around them.

I see this also...I call it the "logic blinders". It's like they see in black and white and Feelers see an array of color.
 

yvonne

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it's just their way. i understand it and appreciate it. sometimes i think they concentrate too much on the details, though... but we both have it hard. thinkers have to understand things logically and feelings don't make sense to them...

sometimes i think feelers have it harder, though... when you feel things, but can't always explain them, but still think they're important... you know?
 

Snuggletron

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Sep 25, 2009
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not sure what I think about thinkers, seeing as how they're about 50% of the population, that's a lot of people I have to make a grouped judgment about who I don't even know.
 

yvonne

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yeah, all of this is just... not to be taken too seriously.
 

OrangeAppled

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not sure what I think about thinkers, seeing as how they're about 50% of the population, that's a lot of people I have to make a grouped judgment about who I don't even know.

It's generalizations based on patterns of experience, which is why most have noted there are many exceptions to the feelings they express.

I have certainly known Thinkers who are not arrogant and can acknowledge the validity of emotions and feeling-reasoning. Unfortunately, I have not come across as many of those as the less-than-reasonable kinds....
 

Heart&Brain

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Mar 29, 2009
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I've known a few Thinkers who seem to lack emotional generosity even though they claim to be 'close' to you. They may observe that you are sad or hurt and need comfort or reassurance. You may tell them straight out that you need it. But it seems that (many) Ts still don't bother to move a finger for you emotionally if they can't see a guaranteed rational benefit of it to themselves.


The idealist in me has always kept believing that if I gave enough warmth myself, they would eventually be able to / dare to / care to give warmth back at some point.

The realist in me found out the hard way that if it's not there to begin with, it's unlikely it'll ever happen.

So I divorced my ISTP-husband :static:. Oh, the incredible, life-saving relief of finding an SF boyfriend for a period after that! Like coming out of icy waters and being hugged and cuddled in front on a fireplace, swept in a warm blanket and served hot cocoa. :wubbie:

After a year or so, I missed objective intellectual exchange badly though.

Being with an INFJ sometimes later has been the best combination of emotional and logical intelligence I've experienced yet. Still, something was missing.

I wonder if this other need is answered by the NTs: A calming toughness, an insistence, a clear sight without the fears that keep clouding mine?

Or if these experiences simply mean that I'm doomed to be eternally oscillating, unsatisfied or only partly and temporarily satisfied?


Waitwaitwait.... or... Any NF-women have good experiences with polyandry? :cheese:
 
P

Phantonym

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The idealist in me has always kept believing that if I gave enough warmth myself, they would eventually be able to / dare to / care to give warmth back at some point.

The realist in me found out the hard way that if it's not there to begin with, it's unlikely it'll ever happen.

:sadbanana: Oh, this does not give me hope.

Or if these experiences simply mean that I'm doomed to be eternally oscillating, unsatisfied or only partly and temporarily satisfied?

I think it's the doom of the entire humankind. There will always be something missing. I don't mean to be such a downer, but as yourself, my relationships with both thinkers and feelers have shown that yes, there is only temporary satisfaction as something is, indeed, missing.
 

Heart&Brain

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Do other Feelers have experiences with the emotional generosity - or lack thereof - in Thinkers?

Are they somehow "build" to be cheap in this aspect of life? To give less than they enjoy getting from Feelers? :steam:


I mean, does emotional exchange in F-T relations have to be borderline starvation and hypothermia for the F or was I just unlucky with the ISTP?
 

yvonne

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men and women are different in the first place. i'd check my own expectations, if i wasn't satisfied in any relationship i've had....
 

ElizaJane

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I wonder if this other need is answered by the NTs: A calming toughness, an insistence, a clear sight without the fears that keep clouding mine?

I think you got it right here. I love my NT. :wubbie: No other type felt quite right.
 

Jon_sparky

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The idealist in me has always kept believing that if I gave enough warmth myself, they would eventually be able to / dare to / care to give warmth back at some point.

The realist in me found out the hard way that if it's not there to begin with, it's unlikely it'll ever happen.

:cheese:

One trait can be selfishness, I have tried to give them stuff, do things for them, never works, they continue being self centered and selfish... Oh well...:tongue10:
 

Synapse

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Thinkers have repressed emotional sides until matured. This can evolve anywhere from teens to 90. Meaning some continue to repress their emotional side and lack maturity their whole lives.

Conversely

Feelers have repressed their thinking side until matured. This again means the same as above, without maturity their emotions override their ability to think rationally. There is after all rational logic and irrational logic as much as rational emotions and irrational emotions and everything in between.

The misunderstanding then applies to how much ego pride and shame there is to begin with, as a human condition, our psyche absorbs a certain amount of stimuli and experiences according to the ramifications of our culture. and our cultures, be it society or family. Which tends to be geared to mainstream sensory logic which again is different to intuitive logic.

Having said that I think mature thinkers are excellent to know, their ability to comprehend more than just logical stimuli on a level that isn't undermining the importance of their feelings and emotions are wise and able to then understand a significant proportion of how people interact and treat each other without clinically trying to create thought fields that justify the behaviour as irrational. The interesting aspect for me is that both rational and emotional aspects of thinking and feeling tend to have patterns that have a consistency about them. What some infer to as chaos and order is like taking a block of wood and painting it black and white. Limited rational, limited emotional, creating a deficit in functional thinking. Without taking into account that as the world isn't flat but rounded, neither are feelings flat but rounded. This of course gets into all kinds of paradoxes, quandaries and the like, when the misunderstood implication behind how our minds react to emotional stimuli go back to how our minds work.

For even thinkers react emotionally without thinking on every level, be it with an oversimplification that is less cluttered sometimes. However, it is when testing the association you have against plants, animals and other people that the reactions are most notable. For those that are guarded, are the most emotionally repressed and tend to exaggerate the most their claim of avoiding emotions.

So far my real life experiences with thinkers has been negative, having family members who are TJ. They are completely closed off from their feelings, so much so that to bring it up is illogical, a deep fury is seen in their eyes with word mention love. It is something that appears to have been omitted from their vocabulary and to bring up and explore the topic of emotions in conversation is deemed illogical and dismissed.

Yet when the other cheek hits a nerve why do I need to listen to their critical thinking and engage them in conversation if they choose to ignore mine. I certainly speak my mind sometimes and end up being called illogical when they misunderstand my perspective. Especially when it actually overrides some of their own logic, it scares them. Because as you know the a TJ's issue is the tendency to be correct at all times, anything else is deemed irrational, while respected from thinkers deemed just about useless when coming from feelers.

In general I do appreciate ST and NT minds, makes me think and that is what our minds are meant to do, think and feel through our thoughts and emotions.
 
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