[ENFJ] I really need some help with my ENFJ mom (long post warning)

[Xellotath]

You know, this is making me think ...there should be a conflict resolution thread, specifically aimed at helping people with their Fe vs Fi conflicts -without- having to engage in a sudden lecture about the MBTI and Cognitive functions in the midst of arguments. Also, which really merely describes things, and only solves issues in superficial terms of "Oh shucks, you're Fe, I'm Fi. We'll never get each other."
Such a hypothetical thread would have to tackle the underlying formation of those functions in order to better deal with the person you're having a conflict with. It would really help with so many situations in a pragmatic fashion...
Wish I had a deeper understanding of the mechanics and origins rather than just the descriptions...
: (

 

[BlackCat]

Yeah, I just can't get Fe. I don't understand it's essence for myself, I understand it on a logical level sort of, but I don't get it. The fact that someone uses it makes no sense to me, and all of that stuff. It's just like a foreign concept.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Yeah, I just can't get Fe. I don't understand it's essence for myself, I understand it on a logical level sort of, but I don't get it. The fact that someone uses it makes no sense to me, and all of that stuff. It's just like a foreign concept.

Please.

Is it really that hard for you to understand where your mom is coming from? What a bunch of crap. I have a horrible relationship with my mom, but I know it's because I'm an asshole. I don't make excuses. I find this kind of "I just don't get it!!! " BS to be totally dishonest.

 

[PeaceBaby]

But BlackCat, the essence is that you said you were going to do something and didn't, don't you think? You said you would buy her a flower. Sure it sounds small, even inconsequential. I don't think that's the point. You're only as honorable as your actions, not your intentions...

You know how she "works" regarding holidays / gifts, so especially in this regard, is it so hard to meet her in her space? Just curious and not being judgemental at all.

 

[BlackCat]

Please.

Is it really that hard for you to understand where your mom is coming from? What a bunch of crap. I have a horrible relationship with my mom, but I know it's because I'm an asshole. I don't make excuses. I find this kind of "I just don't get it!!! " BS to be totally dishonest.

There is a clear cut communication gap with me and my mom. We come from somewhere different with how we are emotional and how to talk, etc. We react differently to everything... We have a different viewpoint on everything. It's odd.

But BlackCat, the essence is that you said you were going to do something and didn't, don't you think? You said you would buy her a flower. Sure it sounds small, even inconsequential. I don't think that's the point. You're only as honorable as your actions, not your intentions...

But she knew exactly why... And still got mad. Even after saying it was fine. Ugh.

 

[Thalassa]

It's annoying when it's constantly happening. My mom is the most extroverted person I've ever met. That alone is grounds for a conflict with living with someone. She is constantly smothering and overwhelming me, she doesn't understand that introverts have limits (even after explaining it). She pretty much explained to me that she hates being around introverts. When I am spent socially she thinks that my withdrawal is a rejection since I won't want to talk to her, and everything I say while spent is an attempt to get people to be quiet. When I explained to her introversion and how I basically didn't want someone to talk a lot she said that that "seems cruel for someone to think that".

I'd like to add that my mom is a very fucked up person in the head. She has been apart of cults, is totally irrational, thinks that anyone who isn't new agey is "ignorant", has a terrible family life (which comes from every sibling besides her ESTJ sister being an introvert, and they're all TJs or FPs. Thus more Fe vs Fi conflict. She annoys the hell out of them, and thinks that they are terrible siblings because they don't go out of their way to please her).

It's funny that your ma keeps calling you selfish, because I perceive her behavior as being extremely selfish, not to mention invasive. Hello, boundaries? It's selfish not to respect another person's limits and to expect other people to "make" you happy. It also seems like she likes to finger point and awful lot i.e. she's "good" while you and your aunt are "cruel"?

I don't know about the rest of the people in this thread, but I totally see your point. Maybe if you would just remember to get her a gift on holidays she'd leave you alone, which would be good, right?

 

[Xellotath]

I don't think that's the point. You're only as honorable as your actions, not your intentions...

Never.
I wholeheartedly disagree.
There is implicit care in the intention. To just focus on the exterior manifestation of that intention is the mark of Fe.

He could have gotten her 20 million plants, 1 or even 0. The fact is that he expressed the intention, the rest is utterly circumstantial. And none of these exterior results should ever be a full and finite measurement for something as complex such as the feelings between a parent and a child.

But hey ...apparently birthday cards do the trick for some.

 

[Thalassa]

P.S. My mom is an extrovert like this, and I don't think it's a normal, healthy function of extraversion. One of my sisters says that my mom likes to suck the energy out of her daughters. My other sister, the "nice" compliant one, gets woken up in the middle of the night and harrassed by phone constantly if my mom is in needy mode. This "nice" compliant sister - though actually an extrovert herself! - sometimes feels it necessary to "disappear" because my mother's behavior can be so invasive. I think that's why I'm kind of identifying with you here.

 

[Unique]

Wow I feel for you mate, I also have an ENFJ mum and found myself nodding a lot to your post...

I however don't have advice... sorry to say... I only know how to use logic and reason and when they are being irrational like that I usually can't end up doing much

Some of the most hurtful things come out of her mouth while shes in one of those states as well, I'm somewhat thankful that I'm a T and it doesn't phase me so much...

I have an ENFJ mate as well, he's a guy though and we get along... so there you go...

 

[Unique]

Also I might note that I lack Fe and another thing is I don't see the point in gifts

I request that people don't get me gifts and to not expect them from me either

For birthdays my friends like each others company more than anything else

I'm glad you can choose your friends....... but you can't choose your family.

 

[Thalassa]

Wow I feel for you mate, I also have an ENFJ mum and found myself nodding a lot to your post...

I however don't have advice... sorry to say... I only know how to use logic and reason and when they are being irrational like that I usually can't end up doing much

Some of the most hurtful things come out of her mouth while shes in one of those states as well, I'm somewhat thankful that I'm a T and it doesn't phase me so much...

I have an ENFJ mate as well, he's a guy though and we get along... so there you go...

I think my sister that is capable of "handling" my mom to a certain point is probably also an ExTP. She gets drained too, and does her thing where she'll run off and won't answer her phone, but mom doesn't seem to phase her the way she does me and my other sisters, whom I think are NFs or SFs.

I have a friend who is probably the same exact type as my mom, but she's really nice in small doses (much like my mom - I get along with my mom so much better when I don't live with her!) and since she's a friend and not my mother, I don't get the same level of vampiric behavior. Or maybe (nay, certainly) my mom's a little unhealthy and my friend isn't.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I've always suspected my Fe was dysfunctional. I couldn't care less about gifts and cards

 

[A Schnitzel]

I've always suspected my Fe was dysfunctional. I couldn't care less about gifts and cards

You should schedule a doctors appointment.

 

[Unique]

I think my sister that is capable of "handling" my mom to a certain point is probably also an ExTP. She gets drained too, and does her thing where she'll run off and won't answer her phone, but mom doesn't seem to phase her the way she does me and my other sisters, whom I think are NFs or SFs.

I have a friend who is probably the same exact type as my mom, but she's really nice in small doses (much like my mom - I get along with my mom so much better when I don't live with her!) and since she's a friend and not my mother, I don't get the same level of vampiric behavior. Or maybe (nay, certainly) my mom's a little unhealthy and my friend isn't.

Our ESTP response is to "squint" in a way that says "you're such a tool" then walk off if it gets too pointless for us

My mum says things like "I can't believe I brought up a child that doesn't have feelings that wont do blah blah blah"

Same card every time... I usually respond with the obvious "I'm being rational and calm. You're not"

Adds fuel to the fire really but its either that or appease the Fe (eww) or walk away

They usually will bait you if you try and walk away... our type is a little bit less prone to taking that bait though

An ENTP might enjoy arguing a bit longer but even they may grow tired

 

[Thalassa]

Our ESTP response is to "squint" in a way that says "you're such a tool" then walk off if it gets too pointless for us

My mum says things like "I can't believe I brought up a child that doesn't have feelings that wont do blah blah blah"

Same card every time... I usually respond with the obvious "I'm being rational and calm. You're not"

Adds fuel to the fire really but its either that or appease the Fe (eww) or walk away

They usually will bait you if you try and walk away... our type is a little bit less prone to taking that bait though

An ENTP might enjoy arguing a bit longer but even they may grow tired

If this description of yourself fairly fits ESTPs then I would say that's exactly what type my sister fits into. Sounds just like her. Stays calm, sometimes pisses my mom off more because she doesn't get upset, then walks out the door when she's had enough.

I think this is a possibility already because she shows S traits like being interested in biology academically and having things like landscaping, carpentry, hiking, and fixing cars as some of her hobbies. If she is an N, I'd say she's N/S borderline.

 

[BlackCat]

Thanks for everyone's input by the way. It's interesting seeing how various types view this issue.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Please.

Is it really that hard for you to understand where your mom is coming from? What a bunch of crap.[...]I don't make excuses. I find this kind of "I just don't get it!!! " BS to be totally dishonest.

+1 to this.

I understand where you're coming from with her making a big fuss over seemingly nothing. But I think simply complying with her wishes will take care of a lot of this. My ESFJ mom has her bouts of "no one really loves me" too. In these cases, I just empathize with her and let her talk it out. It doesn't seem like such a burden, after all she does show her love in palpable ways, whether I consider them useless or not.

You should schedule a doctors appointment.

Do you think it would help patch things up? : / My friends are about fed up with me not calling them, not partaking in group events, etc.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Yeah, I just can't get Fe. I don't understand it's essence for myself, I understand it on a logical level sort of, but I don't get it. The fact that someone uses it makes no sense to me, and all of that stuff. It's just like a foreign concept.

This is funny, because you seem to feel the same way about your mom's Fe & extroversion that she feels about your Fi and introversion: foreign & selfish.

 

[BlackCat]

+1 to this.

I understand where you're coming from with her making a big fuss over seemingly nothing. But I think simply complying with her wishes will take care of a lot of this fuss. My ESFJ mom has her bouts of "no one really loves me" too. In these cases, I just empathize with her and let her talk it out. It doesn't seem like such a burden, after all she does show her love in palpable ways, whether I consider them useless or not.

It's not that I literally don't understand, it's just that I can't accept why anyone would be that way.

Besides, I've got this figured out.

It was more of something to spark an explosion with an argument, a small dispute lead to a greater conflict. That's how it usually goes. It's not even the fact that I didn't get anything. It's a bunch of crap that keeps getting brought up. I am asking these questions to make the bigger conflict not happen and solve the smaller issue. The input here has helped that.

This is funny, because you seem to feel the same way about your mom's Fe & extroversion that she feels about your Fi and introversion: foreign & selfish.

Yep, we've even vocalized that. That it's all a big misunderstanding, and yet the conflict still happens. It's pretty stupid. I think after talking with her tonight we both decided this conflict was very stupid. We are going to try to pull back more, be a bit more detached (that's what I got out of it). When we go in being emotional (It's mostly her though... she sparks my emotions with hers) bad things happen. We understand that we aren't like each other in many ways, even though we have that illusion. We are a mirror of each other.

 

[Wyst]

You know the saying, "How a man treats his mom is representative of how he'll treat his wife"? Well, here's some good practice for loving sacrificially.

If you're already married.... EXTRA practice.