[MBTI General] NF Feeling different than SF Feeling

[cascadeco]

What I think is odd that NFs seem to be limited to connecting with other Ns, but can't seem to cross that gulf into S-land. Which I asked in my previous post, why are NFs billed as the great typological humanitarians when most NFs on this forum admit they don't communicate well with sensors. It seems like people are repeatedly saying it's the sensor not getting IT or understanding IT. If you consistently have problems communicating with a group of people across the board then why is it a limitation of that other groups understanding? How well do they communicate with each other? If it seems to be minimal or easily clarified communications when they communicate, then where does the problem lie? Why is the problem automatically with the other group?

I do agree with what you're saying. Communication is a 2-way street. To blame an S for not getting 'IT' isn't right, as the fault could easily fall on the N not being able to explain his thoughts in a readily understood way. Actually the latter probably happens more often, it's just that this 'problem' isn't really a problem in a lot of N:N interactions because the N's can typically connect the dots readily and make sense of vagueness. So in a sense, N's sticking around only N's isn't a great way to improve communication skills - at least in terms of interacting with all sorts of personalities. This isn't a jab against S's, it's just a matter of two N's perceiving/focusing on things similarly in the first place, so there isn't as big of a bridge to gap.

But also there's a distinction...I mean, simple communication and basic interaction is one thing. Chit-chatting, deciding on where to eat out, day-to-day things. I don't think that's an issue. But the type of conversations (topics) and manner of communicating and telling stories (one of many examples - valuing details vs. not valuing details...and no, not all S's value details. Each of the 8 S types would be different in this regard) is another. As for N's saying "S's just don't get IT", it's probably more a difference in the latter - different conversation preferences and different focuses on the subject at hand. An N viewing the subject in one light and placing importance on characteristic A, vs. the S viewing the subject from a different angle and placing importance instead on characteristic B. The N then deems that the S 'doesn't get it' because the S isn't seeing things in the same light as the N, or doesn't place importance on what the N places importance on. Of course you could totally turn it around and the S could be equally justified in being annoyed that the N doesn't place importance on what the S places importance on. haha. But we could do the same thing with E/I, or F/T, or take all of the mbti letters out of this entire topic, as this is basic human psychology too. Everyone being different and focusing on/valuing different things, and unless both parties actively work to communicate and explain themselves in understandable ways, things will get lost in the shuffle.

As for the NF=awesome humanitarian stereotype, I freely admit that's one reason I didn't think I was an NF many years ago -- because I don't consider myself in that light at all.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

What I think is odd that NFs seem to be limited to connecting with other Ns, but can't seem to cross that gulf into S-land. Which I asked in my previous post, why are NFs billed as the great typological humanitarians when most NFs on this forum admit they don't communicate well with sensors. It seems like people are repeatedly saying it's the sensor not getting IT or understanding IT.

I can connect well with sensors; my closest friend is ISFJ and excluding a few big disagreements over the years, we understand each other pretty well. But I realize that conversation will get muddled if I attempt to push into the abstract. She will just go silent or change the subject. It's clear that she is not paying attention and if she is and she attempts to summarize, she misses the crux of the issue. In other words, we can both speak and understand "S," and we connect on that level, but only one of us can speak and understand "N." I don't consider this a huge gulf worth throwing away the whole friendship for, but it's there.

 

[heart]

I'll give this as an example. Me and two of my coworkers (one of them INFP) were having a serious conversation about how we've dealt with cancer in our families. The INFP was quiet for most of the conversation and didn't say much. When she did say something she looked at the folders behind my colleague and said "Those look like a stack of rainbows!" The metaphor did not escape me. Maybe she felt uncomfortable and didn't know what to say and said the first thing that popped into her head. Who knows what was going on inside her head and what she was getting from the conversation. But when she came out with that completely unrelated comment in the middle of a heavy conversation to me that implied she wasn't even there with us. Maybe she was, maybe she wasn't. I wondered, is she even listening? Why am I here talking about such a personal topic to someone who's not even present? ...

Maybe she's gatekeeping? But if she was, then how did she end up in the conversation, did she initate it or did the other co-worker and she just felt obliged to remain? That's the only thing I can think of. The fact that she was quiet probably says a lot too. My take is she didn't really want to be discussing the issues but felt some kind of obligation to stay and act like she was. Letting Ne get away with her and made some stupid remark. It would have irritated the hell out of me if I'd been you.

If I am fatigued, I really can't deal with a three-way conversation and might be less responsive than the other two people but I can't see myself spouting some non-sequiter though. Instead i'd probably just seem flat in my responses and like I didn't give a damn (based on feedback). I'd probably wake up the next day, worry that I'd been rude, insenstive and find a way to come back at some later point and talk to you alone and retouch on the issues.

Then again, I am usually on the receiving end of bizarre non-sequiters from other people myself. So I really don't know what to say. Life gets strange when one starts having "deeper" issues occur. Many people can't handle talking about such issues. In my experience when looking for understanding and acceptance, I get gushing sympathy instead and then pretty soon compassion fatigue sets in with their other person and the issue just goes no where so I try to limit who I will talk to about deeper personal issues. It's a strange world.

 

[proteanmix]

Maybe she's gatekeeping? But if she was, then how did she end up in the conversation, did she initate it or did the other co-worker and she just felt obliged to remain? That's the only thing I can think of. The fact that she was quiet probably says a lot too. My take is she didn't really want to be discussing the issues but felt some kind of obligation to stay and act like she was. Letting Ne get away with her and made some stupid remark. It would have irritated the hell out of me if I'd been you.

If I am fatigued, I really can't deal with a three-way conversation and might be less responsive than the other two people but I can't see myself spouting some non-sequiter though. Instead i'd probably just seem flat in my responses and like I didn't give a damn (based on feedback). I'd probably wake up the next day, worry that I'd been rude, insenstive and find a way to come back at some later point and talk to you alone and retouch on the issues.

Then again, I am usually on the receiving end of bizarre non-sequiters from other people myself. So I really don't know what to say. Life gets strange when one starts having "deeper" issues occur. Many people can't handle talking about such issues. In my experience when looking for understanding and acceptance, I get gushing sympathy instead and then pretty soon compassion fatigue sets in with their other person and the issue just goes no where so I try to limit who I will talk to about deeper personal issues. It's a strange world.

The other coworker and i were talking privately with the door semi-closed. She knocked on the door and came in and asked us what were we talking about. This is curious, because my Fe kicked in and instantly thought should we continue talking about what we were talking about for her comfort or should we change the subject. I did realize that it wsa a pretty heavy topic and not everyone can or wants to jump right into the thick of things. The other person I was talking to was an FJ as well and we had this second long eye contact in which we debated whether to go on or not. I made the decision to continue and I filled her in. Like I said, I did it mostly to see how she would respond. This is why I take such strong issue with people using the ability to discuss "deep" and "abstract" topics as an indicator of whether or not someone is a sensor or intuitive. I see this as an indicator of how comfortable someone is speaking of such things with people, not people's ability to talk about it.

And I don't dislike this woman, she's very sweet and gentle and a generally uplifting person. This is just something I've noticed when she enters conversations she often does these non sequitors that makes me wonder how capable she is of relating in that way. But topics like this make me turn this around in my head...like if she was a person on this forum what would she say about what she believes I'm (in)capable of connecting with her about when I ironically think the same thing about her. Which brings us back to square one.

 

[PeaceBaby]

What's off base? What I think is odd that NFs seem to be limited to connecting with other Ns, but can't seem to cross that gulf into S-land.

Do you really think that's true? I feel comfortable connecting with sensors myself; after all, they comprise the majority of people I know. It is fun to get the "click" interacting with another N, but I don't expect that IRL from everyone, that's just unrealistic.

 

[Jeffster]

But topics like this make me turn this around in my head...like if she was a person on this forum what would she say about what she believes I'm (in)capable of connecting with her about when I ironically think the same thing about her. Which brings us back to square one.

But, more importantly, do you think she thinks in string or cloth?

 

[Thalassa]

She's my age which is 28.



Yeah, you're right, I said me. Nor do I think that NFs can't make meaningful connections.



What's off base? What I think is odd that NFs seem to be limited to connecting with other Ns, but can't seem to cross that gulf into S-land. Which I asked in my previous post, why are NFs billed as the great typological humanitarians when most NFs on this forum admit they don't communicate well with sensors. It seems like people are repeatedly saying it's the sensor not getting IT or understanding IT. If you consistently have problems communicating with a group of people across the board then why is it a limitation of that other groups understanding? How well do they communicate with each other? If it seems to be minimal or easily clarified communications when they communicate, then where does the problem lie? Why is the problem automatically with the other group?

And most of my friends are NFs and as far as I know we understand each other.

I don't know where or why this stereotype exists, but I will say that I have no problem connecting with Ss - my closest two sisters are Ss, the longest relationship I've had with a man was an S.

Now, I don't communicate well with extremely rigid, rule-following, label-obsesssed Ss...but I probably wouldn't communicate well with your co-worker, either, and you've guessed her as an INFP, something I can't of course verify.

 

[heart]

The other coworker and i were talking privately with the door semi-closed. She knocked on the door and came in and asked us what were we talking about. This is curious, because my Fe kicked in and instantly thought should we continue talking about what we were talking about for her comfort or should we change the subject. I did realize that it wsa a pretty heavy topic and not everyone can or wants to jump right into the thick of things. The other person I was talking to was an FJ as well and we had this second long eye contact in which we debated whether to go on or not. I made the decision to continue and I filled her in. Like I said, I did it mostly to see how she would respond. This is why I take such strong issue with people using the ability to discuss "deep" and "abstract" topics as an indicator of whether or not someone is a sensor or intuitive. I see this as an indicator of how comfortable someone is speaking of such things with people, not people's ability to talk about it.

And I don't dislike this woman, she's very sweet and gentle and a generally uplifting person. This is just something I've noticed when she enters conversations she often does these non sequitors that makes me wonder how capable she is of relating in that way. But topics like this make me turn this around in my head...like if she was a person on this forum what would she say about what she believes I'm (in)capable of connecting with her about when I ironically think the same thing about her. Which brings us back to square one.

No matter what type this person is, if she really gets that much off the wall when other people are trying to be serious, I would think she was messing with people..for what reason I can't predict. Maybe to keep at a distance or she gets flustered because she's intimidated and spouts random Ne things...I just can't know.