• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NF] Why NFs pity themselves so much ?

V

violaine

Guest
...

Ah, I don't really do that with all NTs. Mostly just INTJs, because I "get" how they think, and want them to see that my F doesn't make me a total alien.

Hmm, I have felt similarly before, with INTPs as well as INTJs (because I identify with their intellectual pursuits and I don't identify with the firehose-feeling caricature of NFs). Then I realized that it's on them to see that. Btw, not attacking you at all.

There again, don't forget that a lot of NTs seem to prefer NFs for relationships rather than other NTs. Sometimes you have to look at the behaviors. ;)
 

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,067
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yes, but that's difficult. My bad experiences with NFPs didn't exactly help give me confidence in the NF temperament or myself, because sometimes they do things that make it seem like the condescending things NTs sometimes say about us are right, and it embarrasses me.

I'll try, though. Maybe my inability to deal well with NFPs represents a weakness in myself that I need to confront before I can better myself.

Yes, perhaps try to keep an open mind when it comes to NFPs despite your experiences with them. There are plenty of awesome ones out there, but if you focus on the negative that's all you will see and it will make the resulting relationship difficult.
 

Alpha Prime

New member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
250
MBTI Type
XXXX
Enneagram
XXXX
verbal expression of ones feelings as a way of dealing with them is actually quite healthy and necessary for some.

Absolutely. But when ranting and whining, it is done in a negative/pessimistic/victimized manner, which tends to cloud the rational mind. When done therapeutically (when the person has had time to think) I can see why that would be healthy.


Actually, repressing feelings can be very unhealthy - not just psychologically, but sometimes physically depending on the severity of the repression.

I don't think that being emotional doesn't mean that you're a "grown up." I feel that there's something a bit childish about denying emotion and pretending to always be tough when it's obviously not true. But these are just our two different ways of viewing the world.

You misunderstood me. I'm not talking about repression, at all. I'm talking about getting the skillset to deal with your emotions in a healthy and mature way.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Hmm, I have felt similarly before, with INTPs as well as INTJs (because I identify with their intellectual pursuits and I don't identify with the firehose-feeling caricature of NFs). Then I realized that it's on them to see that. Btw, not attacking you at all.

Yes. That's exactly how I feel. I suppose it's just a kneejerk reaction to try and distance myself from the more schmaltzy NFs when something happens between them and my NT friends, because I'm truly embarrassed by them and often don't relate to them anyway.

You're right, I should count on them to find out I'm better than that, not try to "prove" anything by distancing myself.
 

Lacey

New member
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
392
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
:banana2:

(Joining in on the Helena dance.)
 
V

violaine

Guest
Yes. That's exactly how I feel. I suppose it's just a kneejerk reaction to try and distance myself from the more schmaltzy NFs when something happens, because I'm truly embarrassed by them and often don't relate to them anyway.

I know the feeling well. It's like being a self-hating feeler. (Though I am definitely not!) I like to be accurately represented which is why I questioned the basis of the OP.

You're right, I should count on them to find that out, not try to "prove" anything.

Lol, that's how you know you are NF. ;)

I'll defend the validity of emotive expression against this kind of bias though. The last thread I read that would fit the OP was made by and is about INTPs.

What do you think about those kinds of threads AO? Do you think they are indulgent? They are often full of deprecating and unhelpful replies... I can't see how that is preferable to the way NFs might work out their issues on the boards.
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
Why NF's pity themselves so much?

Don't worry, they likely pity you too. ;)

Yes, NF's are capable of pity more in general. Good point.

^ Oh my dear Viv, it's *logical* whining! All the difference in the world. :D

Yea, somehow it makes it more valid.

I think Antisocial was really just coming to the Idyllic for some hugs and cheering up anyway. Everyone should give him a hug. :hug:

Oh, I agree. NT's get cranky when they just want hugs and comfort. Too afraid to ask for it, alas. Cos, you know, that would be WEAK. :hug: :hug: :hug:

I've been alive 40 years and I've yet to meet anyone who never rants or whines. Thinkers can be some of the worst venters and whiners around, probably because they save it all up for a select few to hear. And often that person they select is a feeler!

lol. +1
 

sculpting

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
I see it as masochism myself. I do get depressed sometimes, but I don't like it and try to stop feeling it. If I had a choice, I'd rather feel numb than feel pain. I totally don't get why they want to "feel alive" even if it hurts. That's kind of creepy to me.
.

Perhaps after feeloing numb and empty for long enough anything is better, even pain? This may be an NeFi or just an Fi thing, I dont know but it seems prevelant enough in society not to be a simple fluke.

Since I think many NF could use more positive approach in life. But I don't understand what is stoping them in achiving that. Also I have impression that they have a tendency to run in circles.

Are NF(P)s always qute unstable on the inside?

Once trapped in an Ne-Fi rut it can be circular and can just dive deeper and deeper and sort of magnify itself. I keep looking outwards for affirmation to solve the problem???? This could just be me though. I have to make a decided choice to stop the cyclical thinking and look inside for a sense of stability??? I have to stop Fi from amplifying itself???

I use this place as a playground to test ideas and get inforamation and the reason why focus so much on feeling is because I totally suck at them completly. But I need to understand people around me. That is why I bombard this topic from so many sides. .

me too. I totally identify with this use of the forum. Not feeling but just people in general. I like the idea of bombarding a topic from all sides. Perhaps my baby Te thinks like your giant Te.

it just occurred to me that every time I read one of your posts, I "hear" you reading it out loud in my version of what I think your voice sounds like. I really need to examine this... :shock:

THIS IS SO TRUE!!!!!!! OMG!!! She's in my brain. But I kinda like it :heart:

Actually once an INTJ told me I write EXACTLY like I speak. So maybe this is what we see with the beautiful Lady X, that makes us sense a voice instead of text.

But I don't understand why. Which is because I don't understand the mind set. Why you reach out for others? Why don't you start thinking about solving the actual problem? I presume that NFs can do that but they don't in many cases.
Are your emotions so overpowering in critical situations?

I tend to ask for about five to ten opinions to supplement by decision about most anything. This means I go door to door sometimes chatting throughout the door to gather a sense of concensus. In my personal life I often question Fi and it's conclusions so be introducing those ideas to others I get feedback. I always knew my view was sometimes flawed but never understood the Fi specific role of that.

This what I am trying to say since I came here. But people don't believe me.
The only "flaw" of this is that you don't get too big bonuses from good emotions.

Dude, You'd be suprised..... :)

My job description consists of:
A) saying crazy shit to make others laugh
B) making scientists in adjacent cubicles speak to each other
C) making groups of people function together productively.

All Ne-Fi stuff. I just hit the six figure mark this year. All due to "good emotions" that help the organization function more effectively.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Perhaps after feeloing numb and empty for long enough anything is better, even pain? This may be an NeFi or just an Fi thing, I dont know but it seems prevelant enough in society not to be a simple fluke.

I suppose some people want that. I just meant that I really don't get it and it creeps me out a little. There's not necessarily anything wrong with it, I just really dislike pain enough that I'd rather feel nothing if I had a choice. I mean... it hurts, you know? Perhaps that's why I get jealous of NTs... sometimes it seems like they feel nothing. Of course, I know very well that even they're not that lucky. No human is.
 

sculpting

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
I suppose some people want that. I just meant that I really don't get it and it creeps me out a little. There's not necessarily anything wrong with it, I just really dislike pain enough that I'd rather feel nothing if I had a choice. I mean... it hurts, you know? Perhaps that's why I get jealous of NTs... sometimes it seems like they feel nothing. Of course, I know very well that even they're not that lucky. No human is.

Yeah, this may be more Ne-Fi, I just dont know. For me, I can build very strong Te walls to protect myself however it also seems to block both happy and sad feelings. So I feel little to no incoming emotion in those states-just strength??? (totally free random thought here, sorry....)

So maybe if you spend enough time here, you can loose the ability to feel anything-emptyiness, thus folks find ways to rediscover that capacity. Some do that via emo-ness perhaps?

I have an enfp sister in law who is a cutter. She grew up surrounded by very strong Ts and looks really, really tough, yet collapsed emotionally as soon as she left home and began cutting. It is very, very common, so I think it worthey of consideration.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Yeah, this may be more Ne-Fi, I just dont know. For me, I can build very strong Te walls to protect myself however it also seems to block both happy and sad feelings. So I feel little to no incoming emotion in those states-just strength??? (totally free random thought here, sorry....)

So maybe if you spend enough time here, you can loose the ability to feel anything-emptyiness, thus folks find ways to rediscover that capacity. Some do that via emo-ness perhaps?

I have an enfp sister in law who is a cutter. She grew up surrounded by very strong Ts and looks really, really tough, yet collapsed emotionally as soon as she left home and began cutting. It is very, very common, so I think it worthey of consideration.

Ugh. All I have to say in response to it being common is... people are creepy. This only cements my certainty that I want nothing to do with most of them. That's just... sick. Sorry, but you pushed me to say that by continually telling me it was common and worthy of consideration. That's my final answer, and I refuse to open my mind or heart to accepting or valuing such disturbing nonsense just because everyone else thinks it makes sense.

I know it seems closed minded, but there are just some feelings I can't and won't empathize with at all.
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
I suppose some people want that. I just meant that I really don't get it and it creeps me out a little. There's not necessarily anything wrong with it, I just really dislike pain enough that I'd rather feel nothing if I had a choice. I mean... it hurts, you know? Perhaps that's why I get jealous of NTs... sometimes it seems like they feel nothing. Of course, I know very well that even they're not that lucky. No human is.

This sounds deeper than MBTI and preferences. It makes it sound like depression and hopelessness. :hug:

Feeling does hurt at times but feeling also has highs and joys. Like there's an easy euphoria I can get from listening to a song over and over and over and get into a very deep feeling state. I'd hate to give that up.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
This sounds deeper than MBTI and preferences. It makes it sound like depression and hopelessness. :hug:

Well, sometimes I do feel that. There might even be some of that going on in my life now, actually. But mostly I just meant that I wouldn't deliberately choose pain over numbness. I wouldn't necessarily want to get rid of my emotions completely. I just wouldn't seek to rid myself of the numbness that sometimes comes over me when I get overwhelmed emotionally. I consider it something of a good thing that gives me a break and sense of clarity when I need it most, and I don't wish to understand the people who would force themselves out of it with self-inflicted pain.
Feeling does hurt at times but feeling also has highs and joys. Like there's an easy euphoria I can get from listening to a song over and over and over and get into a very deep feeling state. I'd hate to give that up.

Yes, me too. I like experiencing the various feelings different songs give me.
 

sculpting

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
Ugh. All I have to say in response to it being common is... people are creepy. This only cements my certainty that I want nothing to do with most of them. That's just... sick. Sorry, but you pushed me to say that by continually telling me it was common and worthy of consideration. That's my final answer, and I refuse to open my mind or heart to accepting or valuing such disturbing nonsense just because everyone else thinks it makes sense.

I know it seems closed minded, but there are just some feelings I can't and won't empathize with at all.

sorry, not meaning to validate it as okay, but rather it is worthy of understanding the root of the problem so you (ie society) can try and help them find a way out of the unhealthy pattern. That it is such a common unhealthy pattern in the concern on my part. rtaher than dismiss as creepy or sick, it should be recognized as a form of mental illness/disorder/unhealthy pattern, rather than a flawed human being.

Fi prompts me to feel empathy and pain for these folks and prods me to want to help them (even if energetically I would be benefited by doing things for myself )

Perhaps Fe sees them as more falling outside of the norms of society and dismisses thier issues as thier own isolated problems/creepiness/sickness? Thus not an Fe issue? Please take no offense, I am just thinking outloud in order to understand...
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
I consider it something of a good thing that gives me a break and sense of clarity when I need it most, and I don't wish to understand the people who would force themselves out of it with self-inflicted pain.

I don't understand it either. Just seems like an mental illness that needs treatment.
 

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,067
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Perhaps Fe sees them as more falling outside of the norms of society and dismisses thier issues as thier own isolated problems/creepiness/sickness? Thus not an Fe issue? Please take no offense, I am just thinking outloud in order to understand...

I feel more saddened than anything and if it were someone I knew, I would actively try to help them.
 
Top