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[MBTI General] INFP and Negative Work Environments

denial

New member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
7
MBTI Type
infj
Hello. I'm new here, but not new to MBTI. I'm saying this right off the top so that what follows doesn't seem like a glib attempt to find a 'unifying theory' that oversimplifies. I'm just looking for some plain, old fashioned help and, hopefully, some richer perspectives that will allow me to abandon the unsatisfying ones that I currently hold (or that hold me).

This is about INFPs, but of course, all types are warmly invited to reply. With this being said, I would be particularly grateful to any INFPs who share an opinion that comes from inside the situation that I'm talking about here.

This situation is really about INFPs who appear to contribute to, develop and ultimately champion toxic work environments.

What I've seen -- from the outide, though (if I may say so) like most INFJs I do tend to introject with unintentional clarity -- is the following formula:

1. An INFP becomes unhappy with how they are being engaged by their workplace. Specifically, an INFP feels that they aren't being appreciated for their unique talents and potential. This can express itself personally, in the INFP not being able to 'do' what they want to do, or it can express itself more abstractly, in the INFP not being able to 'be' what they want to be.

2. This INFP starts to 'test workplace boundaries.' This starts out small and pedestrian, such as being a few minutes late for work, and if unmet by some entity that the INFP considers an authority (maybe a manager, maybe not), grows into overt, stark insubordination.

3. This INFP, unhappy with the quality of feedback they're getting from #2 (this can range from neglect to a continued unwillingness by others to see the INFP as unique/special), starts to *actively convert other people* into a General State of Misery (GSOM). This is especially noticed when new people enter the work environment; they are swiftly recruited by the INFP and told, in absolute terms, that life in that work environment is living hell.

4. This INFP becomes the "anti-INFP" -- maybe like a very, very, very unhealthy ISTP. The only word I have for this is 'toxic', and it fits: whatever they attach themselves to becomes corrupted, polluted, destructive and unhealthy.

I realize that the INFPs reading this may be growing angrier by the sentence. I apologize for this. Please understand that I'm hyper-sensitive (as I think most INFs are) to 'bullshit questions' -- questions that are simply vulgar, cowardly attempts to make statements (i.e. asking "why can't people be nicer" really means: "people aren't as nice as me.").

My question is authentic and based on a great deal of painful interaction with INFPs who have (if I may say so, empathetically), "gone bad." INFPs who have...reacted to what they perceive is a negative, trapped situation.

My question, ultimately, is this: can one, many or ALL of you tell me what's happening here? What is going on inside this situation? Obviously, there has to be an interiour depth that I can't access, regardless of my intent, motivation, or whatever. I have my own baggage and obstacles.

I'm not claiming -- though it may seem so, because of the way in which an internet forum is structures -- that all INFPs do what I've described above.

I'm simply saying that I've experienced this several times -- more than I would consider typical -- and I'd like to know, as much as can be conveyed in words in a forum -- what's happening inside.

Ultimately ultimately, my meta-motive is selfish. I'm hoping that someone will say something, and an understanding within me will shift and open up, so that I can STOP HATING THESE INFPs. I want to let go the resentment, and dealing directly with the INFPs who have inspired this post isn't possible at this time.

I would appreciate any help and insights; particularly (though not exclusively) from INFPs who can sense that they've been on the "inside" of this kind of situation. If so, I'm betting that how you saw things, and how I saw things, were dramatically different. I want to know how you saw it.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Prometheus

New member
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
43
MBTI Type
INTJ
Hello. I'm new here, but not new to MBTI. I'm saying this right off the top so that what follows doesn't seem like a glib attempt to find a 'unifying theory' that oversimplifies. I'm just looking for some plain, old fashioned help and, hopefully, some richer perspectives that will allow me to abandon the unsatisfying ones that I currently hold (or that hold me).

This is about INFPs, but of course, all types are warmly invited to reply. With this being said, I would be particularly grateful to any INFPs who share an opinion that comes from inside the situation that I'm talking about here.

This situation is really about INFPs who appear to contribute to, develop and ultimately champion toxic work environments.

What I've seen -- from the outide, though (if I may say so) like most INFJs I do tend to introject with unintentional clarity -- is the following formula:

1. An INFP becomes unhappy with how they are being engaged by their workplace. Specifically, an INFP feels that they aren't being appreciated for their unique talents and potential. This can express itself personally, in the INFP not being able to 'do' what they want to do, or it can express itself more abstractly, in the INFP not being able to 'be' what they want to be.

2. This INFP starts to 'test workplace boundaries.' This starts out small and pedestrian, such as being a few minutes late for work, and if unmet by some entity that the INFP considers an authority (maybe a manager, maybe not), grows into overt, stark insubordination.

3. This INFP, unhappy with the quality of feedback they're getting from #2 (this can range from neglect to a continued unwillingness by others to see the INFP as unique/special), starts to *actively convert other people* into a General State of Misery (GSOM). This is especially noticed when new people enter the work environment; they are swiftly recruited by the INFP and told, in absolute terms, that life in that work environment is living hell.

4. This INFP becomes the "anti-INFP" -- maybe like a very, very, very unhealthy ISTP. The only word I have for this is 'toxic', and it fits: whatever they attach themselves to becomes corrupted, polluted, destructive and unhealthy.

I realize that the INFPs reading this may be growing angrier by the sentence. I apologize for this. Please understand that I'm hyper-sensitive (as I think most INFs are) to 'bullshit questions' -- questions that are simply vulgar, cowardly attempts to make statements (i.e. asking "why can't people be nicer" really means: "people aren't as nice as me.").

My question is authentic and based on a great deal of painful interaction with INFPs who have (if I may say so, empathetically), "gone bad." INFPs who have...reacted to what they perceive is a negative, trapped situation.

My question, ultimately, is this: can one, many or ALL of you tell me what's happening here? What is going on inside this situation? Obviously, there has to be an interiour depth that I can't access, regardless of my intent, motivation, or whatever. I have my own baggage and obstacles.

I'm not claiming -- though it may seem so, because of the way in which an internet forum is structures -- that all INFPs do what I've described above.

I'm simply saying that I've experienced this several times -- more than I would consider typical -- and I'd like to know, as much as can be conveyed in words in a forum -- what's happening inside.

Ultimately ultimately, my meta-motive is selfish. I'm hoping that someone will say something, and an understanding within me will shift and open up, so that I can STOP HATING THESE INFPs. I want to let go the resentment, and dealing directly with the INFPs who have inspired this post isn't possible at this time.

I would appreciate any help and insights; particularly (though not exclusively) from INFPs who can sense that they've been on the "inside" of this kind of situation. If so, I'm betting that how you saw things, and how I saw things, were dramatically different. I want to know how you saw it.

Thanks.

So you hate infp because they can act pessimistic?:shock:
If you feel the urge to control 'toxic' infp feelings or you feel threating because the infp are controling the feelings of people you used to control, just cut off the first step. Give the infp a better work enviroment.
 

denial

New member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
7
MBTI Type
infj
If you can reduce my post to "you hate INFP because they can act pessimistic", you have a future in bad copywriting (you'd be surprised how much this pays).

Also - I'm wasn't in control of these environments, formally or informally. If I was, yes, I would have done something early on (whether that would have made things better or worse, I don't know).
 

lastrailway

New member
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
508
...Also - I'm wasn't in control of these environments, formally or informally. If I was, yes, I would have done something early on (whether that would have made things better or worse, I don't know).

What he said was
feel threating because the infp are controling the feelings of people you used to control.

Control feelings, not people
 

lastrailway

New member
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
508
If I understand well the whole situations:
-Some people on your job use to come late for work
-Then they receive negative comments for that
-They get pissed off and start to believe their workplace is a hell
-They voice this opinion to other people.

I fail to understand how that produces any negative environment which affects you. Does that affect your work or productivity? Do these people act against you on some way? You could simply do what you have to do and not mind them, or not?
I am not being negative, I simply cannot really understand the problem
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
MBTI Type
ISTP
One question first - have these INFPs been formally tested?
 
R

RDF

Guest
This situation is really about INFPs who appear to contribute to, develop and ultimately champion toxic work environments.

I sympathize with what you're saying here. As a boss, I've had this kind of disgruntled INFP employee: moping, rolling their eyes, sighing, enervated, listless, whining about any new task given to them, making passive-aggressive comments, etc. Hell, I've probably been that employee back in my younger days.

On the other hand, I consider it typically INFJ of you to get so worked up about it and want to control it. So you have a grumpy, complaining worker or coworker. Big deal. Like it's a novelty to encounter a worker who doesn't enjoy their workday. :violin:

If you're working alone with a grumpy INFP, then I agree that the INFP can get on your nerves real fast. But if you're working in a small shop with a couple other employees (say a fast food joint), then it shouldn't be such a big deal; the INFP will likely grumble a bit and then keep mostly to himself anyway. If you have a bigger shop with lots of employees, then the INFP should be the least of your worries. The INFP practically disappears into the woodwork compared to other personality types and their workplace issues.

If you're the boss at your workplace, then manage the problem the way bosses are supposed to: sit down with the INFP in a formal counseling session, set performance targets to address any slippage in work performance, have a talk about proper attitude and being a team player, etc.

If you're not the boss, then the INFP is not your problem. Complain to the boss about morale issues in the work environment if you must, and then drop it. It's the boss' call, not yours.

Like I said, I've had grumpy INFP employees. It's not the most pleasant thing, but it's also not the worst thing that can happen to a boss or a workplace. Even at their worst, INFPs are fairly benign overall. I would certainly prefer a grumpy, whiny INFP over a cranky INTJ, a passive-aggressive ESFJ, an insubordinate ENTJ, or a rebellious ESTP any day of the week.

Meanwhile, I would advise that you simply quit worrying about it. Whether you're the boss or coworker, you're not responsible for people's moods. If you're the boss and you want to declare an official office-wide "morale problem" or officially counsel an individual worker about attitude, then that's fine--handle the issue through official channels according to the usual official formats. Beyond that, don't try to get into people's heads and do mood control. Observe proper personal boundaries and all that. Learn how to control your own anal retentiveness. Be more willing to accept people as they are, even when they're having a bad day or a bad year.

Just my own opinion, of course. But I'll shut up at this point. I'm interested in hearing from other board members and other personality types whether they think disgruntled INFPs are noticeably and consistently more toxic in the workplace than disgruntled workers of other types.
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
MBTI Type
ISTP
Has anyone here been formally tested? I thought most of us were just trying to type ourselves

Quite a few have. Many work environments use it for their employees, which is why I'm asking. There is a considerable bias towards mistyping people relative to the formal testing.

Also, since INFPs are vastly unrepresented in the workforce, being able to build a pattern seems highly suspect right off the bat - doubly so with another NF saying so. In a company that had about 120 odd employees tested, there were 0 INFPs... and this was not statistically unusual (the bias here, however, was that the departments tested were technical and operational, which is even less likely to have INFPs. But even in the areas where Fs are more present, like teaching, nursing and training, INFPs are very rare).
 

denial

New member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
7
MBTI Type
infj
Please...wait.

Ok. There's a growing misunderstanding here. :doh: I'm going to blame SEO Consultants.

DAMN YOU, SEO CONSULTANTS.

The thing is: I'm not looking for a solution to this. This is not an ongoing, current situation.

Other things:

- We're not talking everyday unhappiness or mere pessimism. We're talking something that is a campaign of workplace destruction -- one that doesn't only affect the people around the INFP, but of course, the INFP, too. In fact, in the few situations I've seen this (the "few-ness" is what inspired this post), I'll easily bet that the INFP suffered much worse than anyone else (though they took people down with them).

What I'm asking for -- and maybe this is the root problem; that I'm asking this and it can't be asked -- is for a new perspective on this; what it looks like, or might look like, from the inside.

Maybe there isn't anything that type can say about this. If so, that's fine. This is a forum after all -- I'm not writing a book on it or anything.

I have seen a few -- not a million, but a few -- INFPs react this way (as described in my first post) to what they perceive to be a negative work situation. If possible, I'd just like to know, perhaps from an INFP, what this may look like from the inside.

I once read a note about Enneagram 7's (the :D ones) that went something like "when we're waving our arms in the air, we're not always inspired or joyous, but frantically waiving for help." This was written by an Enneagram 7 and it shattered my sloppy, lazy awareness of Enneagram 7s. I was grateful for that.

I guess I'm hoping for something similar here.

Damn SEO Consultants. :steam:
 

lastrailway

New member
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
508
Quite a few have. Many work environments use it for their employees, which is why I'm asking. There is a considerable bias towards mistyping people relative to the formal testing.

Also, since INFPs are vastly unrepresented in the workforce, being able to build a pattern seems highly suspect right off the bat - doubly so with another NF saying so. In a company that had about 120 odd employees tested, there were 0 INFPs... and this was not statistically unusual (the bias here, however, was that the departments tested were technical and operational, which is even less likely to have INFPs. But even in the areas where Fs are more present, like teaching, nursing and training, INFPs are very rare).

Yes, have heard of businesses using such test to their employees.
It stuck me too the whole: “INFPs are…”, but, except that, denial, I am not trying to be cleverish or something here: I really don’t understand how other people’s performance and attitude in their job affects you. I guess it depends on the kind of job you are doing, but still…

EDIT: oh, you answered while I was writting this post and I haven't read your answer. I suggest you ignore this post, if you 're already answering my question. I 'm going to read your post now and come back :)
 
R

RDF

Guest
Quite a few have. Many work environments use it for their employees, which is why I'm asking. There is a considerable bias towards mistyping people relative to the formal testing.

Also, since INFPs are vastly unrepresented in the workforce, being able to build a pattern seems highly suspect right off the bat - doubly so with another NF saying so. In a company that had about 120 odd employees tested, there were 0 INFPs... and this was not statistically unusual (the bias here, however, was that the departments tested were technical and operational, which is even less likely to have INFPs. But even in the areas where Fs are more present, like teaching, nursing and training, INFPs are very rare).

I've run into a few in the workplace. But I'm in an INFP-friendly field (languages and translation), and I deal with lots of contractors (which may be an attractive arrangement for INFPs).

Since my wife and I are both INFPs, I probably spot INFPs quicker and watch them closer than other types. Even if there aren't a lot of them right in front of me at any given time, still the total number of encounters starts to add up across 13 or 14 years in the field.

They're out there somewhere. :)
 
Last edited:
R

RDF

Guest
Ok. There's a growing misunderstanding here. :doh: I'm going to blame SEO Consultants.

DAMN YOU, SEO CONSULTANTS.

The thing is: I'm not looking for a solution to this. This is not an ongoing, current situation.

Other things:

- We're not talking everyday unhappiness or mere pessimism. We're talking something that is a campaign of workplace destruction -- one that doesn't only affect the people around the INFP, but of course, the INFP, too. In fact, in the few situations I've seen this (the "few-ness" is what inspired this post), I'll easily bet that the INFP suffered much worse than anyone else (though they took people down with them).

What I'm asking for -- and maybe this is the root problem; that I'm asking this and it can't be asked -- is for a new perspective on this; what it looks like, or might look like, from the inside.

Maybe there isn't anything that type can say about this. If so, that's fine. This is a forum after all -- I'm not writing a book on it or anything.

I have seen a few -- not a million, but a few -- INFPs react this way (as described in my first post) to what they perceive to be a negative work situation. If possible, I'd just like to know, perhaps from an INFP, what this may look like from the inside.

I once read a note about Enneagram 7's (the :D ones) that went something like "when we're waving our arms in the air, we're not always inspired or joyous, but frantically waiving for help." This was written by an Enneagram 7 and it shattered my sloppy, lazy awareness of Enneagram 7s. I was grateful for that.

I guess I'm hoping for something similar here.

Damn SEO Consultants. :steam:

If you just want a subjective, personal impression from INFPs of what it's like for them to hate their job, then you may want to take your question to the INFP-gc message board. You'll get an earful there. :rolleyes:
 

denial

New member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
7
MBTI Type
infj
er...

If you just want a subjective, personal impression from INFPs of what it's like for them to hate their job, then you may want to take your question to the INFP-gc message board. You'll get an earful there. :rolleyes:

I'll stick with my diet pepsi. :nice:
 

lastrailway

New member
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
508
...
I guess I'm hoping for something similar here...

Ah, ok, now I understand: you want INFPs to identify themselves with your characterisation, agree you are right and that indeed they are producing a negative I-dont-know-what, and, hopefully, apologise, even better if in a humorous way.
Sounds fair
 

denial

New member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
7
MBTI Type
infj
Gotcha.

Thanks, your glib and ultra-defensive response is much more insightful than you realize. Appreciated. Keep up the bitterness :party2:
 

denial

New member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
7
MBTI Type
infj
No, I didn't think you were an INFP at all. I figured you were just some damaged person who is reacting to a touched nerve and figures that this is as good a place as any to vomit. My next guess is that you do this all the time and wonder why people don't think you're an oracle.
 

Prometheus

New member
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
43
MBTI Type
INTJ
Can you explain how you got to type the infp? Any specific method?
What about all the other co-workers's types?
Also, how you know you are an infj?
 
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