[MBTI General] Why the INFP male is the ideal match from an ENTJ female perspective

[mortabunt]

Because INFP's won't fight back, and will be accomadating to her overwhelming contrasociotypical Te.

 

[r0wo1]

I have been wondering something like this myself for quite some time now. This post was brilliant! But that brings a question of mine into light...

Hypothetically if one of my best friends were an ENTJ female. And I had developed deeper feelings for her, how could/would/should I make it known that I would like to more on to a more serious relationship with her? Would it be best to wait and hold off and hope the feelings develop in return, and is that a solution that will likely be successful? What do you think?

 

[Udog]

Be direct, be bold, be honest, and use your cynical INFP sense of humor to win her over.

 

[Galusha]

Some examples that I see of the INFP and ENTJ complementing each other:
-The INFP wishes he could more easily tell the people he wants to fuck off to actually fuck off; the ENTJ easily tells the people he wants to fuck off because it doesn't occur to him that he should curb himself or do otherwise.

not true. I know I should curb it, it's just that sometimes the need to tell someone he's being a moron overrides propriety.

-The INFP wishes he could more easily assert his intentions, desires, etc but worries he will be misunderstood; the ENTJ naturally asserts his intentions, desires, etc. without worrying he will be misunderstood.

also, false. I want to be understood, and usually try to make myself as clear as possible. I appreciate it when people don't beat around the bush when something should be said.

Also, we just seem to understand each other perfectly. I don't know, I can't really explain the curious dynamics I feel as an ENTJ between the INFP and the ENTJ. It just works. I think that's why it's so perfect because you don't need to rationalize out why it feels right. The fact that there is no cognitive dissonance that arises out of its instinctual sense of rightness between one's feelings and rationality makes it just....right.

no need to rationalize our feelings? really? it doesn't matter if there's an actual need; you're rationalizing the attraction right now. it's how we respond to things we feel strongly about. the important thing is that an INFP might be able to say why we appreciate logic, and how we could take a few steps back from it occasionally.

you also didn't include, in your rationalization, the incredible patience that INFPs seem to have with us-- it constantly amuses and mystifies me, and I love it.

 

[unixgod]

I can see in theory how the original poster enjoys having her INFP male give her valuable insight to her psyche or things that she may have trouble with but as a male INFP in an INFP ENTJ relationship I have to say that my personal perspective is quite the opposite.

In this corner, INFP male (patriarchal upbringing), Scorpio, breadwinner (in excess of $180k a year), $ saver. Laid back, happy go lucky, underachieving genius existentialist.

In that corner, ENTJ female (Italian matriarchal upbringing), Taurus, school teacher, $ spender. Concretist.

Biggest issues = sex, money, ambition, control.

ENTJ refuses to be flexible on femininity, sexuality, spending, and status. Fights for control constantly.

INFP wants to be laid back, buy a cat, play video games, have sexy time.

INFP tries to impose femininity, softness, sexuality on ENTJ

ENTJ tries to impose dominance, ambition, drive to INFP.

INFP feels he has "made it financially"

ENTJ feels that there needs to be more and instantiates three businesses INFP could care less about.... "someone had to make us successful"

INFP hates structure. ENTJ gets off on structure.

INFP enjoys intellectual pursuits. ENTJ would rather go to football game.

Hilarity ensues... businesses fail... no money... INFP longs for tender love of a female.... finds artist to have an affair with. ENTJ can not deal. Arms up with a boyfriend. Here we are. Still together, likely divorce. Two year old son.

This might have been a workable situation if ENTJ had a 15 inch penis and INFP had a soft pliant vagina. A match made in hell.

 

[Udog]

First, sorry to hear about your woes. ESTJ (f) and INFP (m) seems like a very difficult match, despite the fact that ESTJ (m) and INFP (f) seems to actually be a pretty good one. Adherence to typical gender roles can be very important to an ESTJ. ENTJs are less likely to follow typical gender roles, and are more likely to create their own definitions. I don't think you can predict ENTJ-INFP success by modeling it after the ESTJ-INFP relationship.

 

[SciVo]

thread TL; DR

But then again, in this particular context, that actually says a lot, doesn't it?

 

[unixgod]

oops.... see my quick edit above... wife is ENTJ

 

[Udog]

Unixgod, what drew you guys together in the first place?

One thing I will say, is that some ExTJ's can be very focused on power and success. There are alot of 'gold diggers' and status seekers within the two types, and it's something to be wary of.

I think the INFP can be good to help them relax that characteristic. However, you have to have an ExTJ that desires that type of growth.

 

[StephMC]

What drew you guys together in the first place?

One thing I will say, is that some ExTJ's can be very focused on power and success. There are alot of 'gold diggers' and status seekers within the two types, and it's something to be wary of.

I think the INFP can be good to help them relax that characteristic. However, you have to have an ExTJ that desires that type of growth.

Yeah, that is absolutely key. I have a close ENTJ friend that needs to learn some balance... it doesn't seem like right now he wants to pursue that balance, though. He would probably crush an INFP if pursued one at the moment. Well... any F for that matter. Although that that could just be me being presumptuous. He claims he's a big softy in relationships... but I can't imagine his domineering attitude just vanishing

 

[Udog]

He claims he's a big softy in relationships... but I can't imagine his domineering attitude just vanishing

Both statements are likely true. He's just as domineering and a big softy. The more he gets stressed, the more those two sides would duke it out.

 

[unixgod]

What attracted me...

When I was growing up I always knew I was different and that I didn't fit in with the typical guys. I was also very gifted, got perfect grades, but was also the class clown. I didn't go on a field trip until like 6th grade.

Intellectually, I found school to be boring. I could probably have handled 4th grade material in first grade but had disciplinary issues and also would not have had the "presence" of a fourth grader. I always liked girls... chased them, touched their boobies. Was generally sad most of the time.

In high school, though I played football one year (my dad made me). I wasn't exactly popular with the ladies. I had one girlfriend who was really fat, and a horndog, she approached me. Given my hormones I was apt to take what I could get... I got kicked out of gifted class in 8th grade for disrupting it all the time. Slacked through high school (slept most of the time in class and still got good grades).

College came... got horrible grades (as I was used to slacking and still getting decent grades) though I did ok considering I skipped 90% of my classes, and just showed up for the midterms and the finals. Fat HS girlfriend was still @ "home" and would have billion hour phone conversations about how I was out partying and having sex with a million girls (I wish)... she was terribly annoying. Didn't know how to talk to girls or be assertive or a "player" with girls.... why should I have to be? Why not just be myself and have a girl like me for who / what I am?

So I met this girl on a MUD (multi-user dungeon) this is pre-WWW pre-mosaic (or about that time) and we hit it off. She hated her bf, I hated my gf... we got close. I was happy a girl was interested in me and could actually have a somewhat decent conversation. We met. I dumped the HS gf.

I was very shy. She was very outgoing, resolute, and a number of things but I would say that she may have been too much so... a few people thought she was my mom when they met her due to how she dressed, her demeanor, and what I might call her "projected age".

I fell in love with her because she took an interest in me and wanted me to be a better person. She helped me to socialize more. It wasn't until I met her that I started to change my appearance (I used to wear gym shorts and a t-shirt all the time). She dressed me in Polo, Nautica, sweaters, khakis, you name it. I started going to class and getting a good bit of A's and B's and a few C's here and there. Girls started to notice me a bit. She started pushing for an engagement... as I thought to myself I had found heaven as she was so into me. I was hesitant but loved her and didn't see any reason that we shouldn't be married.

She ended up moving home (8 hours away for awhile when she was in graduate school). We stayed together. I was supposed to move where her family was but got an amazing job opportunity in my area. She moved out here and as soon as we are living together the arguments were insanity... a constant struggle over not spending on credit cards and "control" issues... saying I wanted to control her, insisted on her name being first on the checking account. We'd hang out with friends and have ridiculous arguments... why can't you be more manly like so and so? Why can't you be more feminine like his wife? Sexual issues... money issues... needless arguing over everything.

I was on a decent track career wise... as a consultant. I was typically one of the most highly utilized consultants but also wasn't the aggressive trail blazing kind of guy... I was more behind the scenes. Then the arguments over "we're never going to have a house"... which led me to point out the credit card issues. Our friends made about the same as us and were able to save for a house... "but the house is made of plastic and not brick and its really small"...

I never figured I could get another girl, so I stayed with her... thinking that since I was infinitely flexible she'd become flexible over time and "grow" with me. It has been a constant battle of wanting more and more, whether it be status or money, or time spent, or don't you have something better to do than play video games or read...

I thought she'd change. We get married. Fight about money all the time and I pretty much felt like all I ever did was try to conform to her in whatever way necessary to make her happy. I thought about leaving her, but loved her, and decided if I was going to make it work that I had to make more money. I was making about $72k a year, she was making maybe $40k and we couldn't save a dime to our names, much less have the conversation as to how important it was. I think her mother (who never accepted me in the beginning) had a lot to do with injecting things into her daughter as to how she should be treated, provided for, etc.

I constantly looked at other women... lusting for softness.

I start consulting independently, making upwards of $200k a year... find myself a bit... not overly aggressive but certainly not a wallflower at all. I was very assertive in my field of expertise. She "made me" she says. Perhaps she did... the way that a bit of sand makes a pearl inside of a clam. Buy a big gigantic house... trying to make ends meet to keep her happy. Still wasn't enough... someone had to "do it"... meaning "make us successful". At that point in time I figured I had made it... and couldn't really do much better than I was doing w/o a ton more work and it was "enough" for me.

So she wants to start these franchises. So I support her through it to get her the F off my back. This of course was the biggest nightmare to come as it involved her family. The businesses all struggle over a few years... the credit cards were still crazy all the time... I got cut back in my contracts a bit. I try to find ways to "make it all work" to no avail. All I ever wanted was a small, one step at a time life, with a cute little horny wife and maybe a cat and have fun on weekends interacting with other intellectuals, and a family. At this point I'm so deep I feel there is no escape... to leave now would be horrible. So we try having a baby... we had issues... she gets pregnant... our finances are terrible... the businesses are terrible... I let her stay home for two years to raise our amazing son. Stress, 2.5 hours of driving a day, finances, bills, boss at work killing my spirit, boss at home killing my spirit, do not feel alive, do not feel joy, do not feel anything.

End up freaking out, start having affairs with young softer women who the wife labels as "whores who just want me for my money" (which may or may not be the case because I don't even know what is REAL anymore). Lots of amazing sex. Lots of laughs. I leave one for another, an artist girl who I'm still seeing. I quit my job. Been out of work for 9 months, wife has a boyfriend now. Still in the house. I adore my child to no end. I'm tired of being so money focused. I lust for color, passion, and creativity. I just need someone to hold me and somehow to make it all go away.

Lessons learned:

- I should have had a vagina
- Women should be sent back to the dark ages
- Masturbating in peace can be a life worth living
- Nihilism is very dark and depressing

 

[Orangey]

Oh my...

 

[Udog]

^ Indeed.

Unixgod, I think some relationship pairings work easier than others, and INFP - ENTJ (and INFP - ESTJ) are one of the more difficult ones. What initially draws us to the other ends up tearing us apart if left unaccounted for and untempered. Then we end up hating the other person for the very things that we initially loved about them.

INFPs are never infinitely flexible, and it's important to remember that. When it comes to some issues we aren't flexible at all. Not even alittle bit. I think a critical part of INFP self growth is to identify those core issues of inflexibility, because if we don't find a partner that fits with those, the relationship is doomed.

 

[jtanSis1]

ok, simple solution: first, ENTJ female is trying to learn to be soft both emotionally and socially while still being a woman and showing INFP control. second, INFP man should be trying to learn to be more in control emotionally and socially from ENTJ while showing ENTJ female her emotions. This is why it's harder when you step outside your MBTI quadrant. You have to take the extra differences also into account to learn from.

 

[unixgod]

ok, simple solution: first, ENTJ female is trying to learn to be soft both emotionally and socially while still being a woman and showing INFP control. second, INFP man should be trying to learn to be more in control emotionally and socially from ENTJ while showing ENTJ female her emotions. This is why it's harder when you step outside your MBTI quadrant. You have to take the extra differences also into account to learn from.

See that's the thing though... I think from the beginning I always tried to temper her drive. We used to have many conversations in regards to "what is happiness? how much is enough?" while her seemingly being totally oblivious to any semblance of feelings other than her own needs and to feed me and take care of me. I will say that my wife is probably the best cook ever and other men are jealous of that... she is also highly responsible with wash and taking care of a bunch of things while also working a very good job. That said, I feel like the color, creativity, emotion, passion, and general flow of our life is just way way way off.... seems very business oriented. I guess I might have stopped being so playful and emotional because to be honest I need that to be a two way road... I'd come home from work and want to walk or go on bike rides.. which she'd just scoff at. One, it wasn't on her schedule... two, don't I have something more interesting to do? So most of the time I'd just end up retreating to my office...

I was always patient with her.... teaching her things... generally felt as if I was always dealing with a brutish child to some extent. And I DID learn quite a bit and came into my own over the years... I almost feel like I'm a mini ENTJ out in reality... and I gotta somehow meditate to wash it off of me... almost like its my "normal" type sometimes.... but its not the REAL me and I feel that it brings me much stress.

 

[unixgod]

I think a critical part of INFP self growth is to identify those core issues of inflexibility, because if we don't find a partner that fits with those, the relationship is doomed.

Yeah I have that down pretty good now...

Enjoyment of sex, saving money, feeling like life is a journey instead of a mission from point A to point B, color, creativity, togetherness.

 

[poppy]

Unixgod's story doesn't sound like an MBTI issue to me, so much as a clear difference in goals and priorities, which is enough to put strain on any relationship.

 

[runvardh]

Values first, worry about type later. Too bad it can be overridden by "me need fuck now!" Eh, I think I've managed to get past that part, actually...

 

[TickTock]

I can't say I agree with the OP. I tend to clash with power assertive people. My infp senstive side only emmerges once Im proven as the dominant one, then I mix in giving in to her and it being all about her.