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[MBTI General] Why the INFP male is the ideal match from an ENTJ female perspective

Harlow_Jem

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Apr 18, 2008
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219
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eNTJ
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8w9
Society tells us that the proper roles in a relationship are played out when the male is the manly man and the female is the less assertive, sensitive one. Which is why when a healthy INFP male and a healthy ENTJ female meet, it's absolute magic in a backwards way. The ENTJ female does not need a male who is more "masculine, aggressive" or whatever. What she needs is someone to complement her own traits and help her ease into feeling comfortable with her own, most likely repressed/rejected femininity. What she needs is the sensitive rational male. The INFP male is the sensitive, rational man.

I think it's especially hard for the INFP male to attract an ENTJ female because ENTJ females are all mixed up simply by being an "ENTJ female" which is kind of a paradox. Therefore the ENTJ female inherently feels very masculine and with the combination of growing up in a society that promotes outward masculinity as the ideal male, it can be hard for the ENTJ female to face an attraction to an INFP male who may be seen and misinterpreted to be "too sensitive and feminine." The immature/unhealthy/extreme ENTJ female will most likely write off the INFP male as being effeminate and ignore the potentially perfect match she makes with an INFP male in favor of trying to gain the affections of a more "masculine" male. However, in the end, she will find that with a more "masculine male" there will most likely never be an end to power struggles, the clashing of egos and the conflicts and dissent that arise when two inherently different beings try to occupy and dominate the same niche.

The INFP male definitely needs a mature, very understanding and accepting ENTJ female who does not misinterpret and write off his seemingly lax behavior and outlook/approach towards life as incompetency and doesn't offend him by questioning his masculinity in comparison to her own "masculinity" and instead appreciates his sensitivity. My INFP boyfriend has issues of wishing he fit more into the accepted mold of the "manly man"; he wishes he was more athletic, more assertive and aggressive, etc. But to me he's already the ideal man as to me the ideal man is one who understands the feminine psyche without being an effeminate male.

INFPs and ENTJs value and demand the same basic things in people. Honesty, morality, and genuineness. My boyfriend said, "I can't stand most people. It's hard for me because I'm a moral man living in an immoral world" and whereas other people might laugh at such a statement, I knew exactly what he meant because I feel the same way. I'm a moral, straightforward female living in a society that promotes submission, seduction and manipulation as desirable traits of femininity and writes off blunt honesty and being forward as traits of the "bitch CEO." I think during serious discussion between the INFP and the ENTJ who are on the same level, both will find that what the other says is exactly what he/she believes, though its worded differently than how he/she would word it. Thus they help enlighten one another.

Some examples that I see of the INFP and ENTJ complementing each other:
-The INFP wishes he could more easily tell the people he wants to fuck off to actually fuck off; the ENTJ easily tells the people he wants to fuck off because it doesn't occur to him that he should curb himself or do otherwise.
-The INFP easily reads the feelings and vibes that others give off; the ENTJ hopes that he/she can learn to better read the feelings and vibes that others give off.
-The INFP wishes he could more easily assert his intentions, desires, etc but worries he will be misunderstood; the ENTJ naturally asserts his intentions, desires, etc. without worrying he will be misunderstood.
-The ENTJ feels extremely uncomfortable when faced with his feelings; the INFP understands how the ENTJ feels even if the ENTJ is not able to verbalize it himself...the INFP is capable of explaining to and assuring the ENTJ that one doesn't have to flee from his feelings in a way the ENTJ can accept and understand and affirm that the ENTJ is not crazy for feeling what he feels.

I think the ENTJ/INFP match is especially perfect because the ideal relationship is one in which both parties help the other grow as a person. The characteristics of the healthy ENTJ is basically what the INFP wants to have/cultivate in himself; and vice versa....the characteristics of the healthy INFP are what the ENTJ, at the core, wants to cultivate in himself.

Also, we just seem to understand each other perfectly. I don't know, I can't really explain the curious dynamics I feel as an ENTJ between the INFP and the ENTJ. It just works. I think that's why it's so perfect because you don't need to rationalize out why it feels right. The fact that there is no cognitive dissonance that arises out of its instinctual sense of rightness between one's feelings and rationality makes it just....right.
 

Augenblick

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Apr 11, 2009
Messages
14
MBTI Type
INFP
As a male INFP in a relationship with a female ESFJ... I can't say how cool I found this post.

I'll probably reply more later, but I just wanted to say that and I'm short on time now.
 

Udog

Seriously Delirious
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
5,290
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INfp
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9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think the ENTJ/INFP match is especially perfect because the ideal relationship is one in which both parties help the other grow as a person. The characteristics of the healthy ENTJ is basically what the INFP wants to have/cultivate in himself; and vice versa....the characteristics of the healthy INFP are what the ENTJ, at the core, wants to cultivate in himself.

I don't have much experience with ENTJs, but this does seem about right. I found myself generally nodding in other areas as well.

I've said this before, but the potential neat thing about the INFP/ENTJ relationship is that if I can prove myself, it's actually greatly appreciated when I finally drop my armor and expose my vulnerable core. It somehow actually makes the bond tighter. Sadly, real life experience has shown me that is rarely the case in the romantic world.

Also, power struggles aren't so much an issue because, frankly, there are very few things that I give a shit about. I want my partner to be happy, I need them to be moral, and well, other than that the path they take is their own. I'm not intimidated by their success, because the things I value most aren't related to it. Their success makes me insanely proud and happy.

Finally, I like that ENTJs seem to appreciate the advice/perspective I give them. They'll actually modify their behavior if I can explain why they are going too far, and why their behavior is actually hurting some goal or moral they value. Part of the reason this works is that I don't want to stop or change them, I just want to make sure they don't go too far.

Anyway, thanks for making that post Harlow - it was a good read.

Augenblick, ESFJ, a type I have more experience with, can be a good match as well. Especially if they have a well developed Ne.
 

Manimal

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Oct 28, 2008
Messages
60
MBTI Type
INFP
hmmm, now how to lure these elusive entj women i match so well with..
 

antireconciler

it's a nuclear device
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Apr 29, 2007
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866
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Intj
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5w4
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so
Another very good read, Harlow. :) Some of the closest friends I've had fit the ENT? category. They make me feel very easily that I'm valuable in their lives.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
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sx/so
Are you sure this isn't just confirmation bias because you happen to be ENTJ and your SO happens to be INFP? The fact that the two of you get along really well for these reasons doesn't necessarily suggest a type correlation.

But that said, I can see why it works well in your case, and you've made a good argument for that.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
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Messages
7,038
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ESFP
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sx/sp
Are you sure this isn't just confirmation bias because you happen to be ENTJ and your SO happens to be INFP? The fact that the two of you get along really well for these reasons doesn't necessarily suggest a type correlation.

But that said, I can see why it works well in your case, and you've made a good argument for that.

I work very VERY well with healthy ENTJs in friendship/other things. I wish I could find a female one. I can pretty much totally relate to the OP.

What makes you doubt the relationship? That would be like saying that the forum fad INFJ-ENTP relationship was bad to me, it just makes sense that the two would be together (reinforcement of weaknesses, knowing where the other is coming from, basically stuff in the OP).
 

Nonsensical

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Aug 2, 2008
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7
Being almost borderline with INFP, let me put it this way.

It isn't always a healthy match between a healthy male INFP and a healthy female ENTJ. There are a billion and one exceptions, and I know you are being general.

I feel like you are judging male INFPs as being femenine, passive, off on the sidelines. I don't think it's wise to assume that all are like this, because I know I'm not any of those. But a lot of them are like that.

I'll be honest, I don't think an INFP with an ENTJ is a healthy relationship. That's my opinion. Maybe another INFP thinks differently. I'd feel too dragged around, and I'd need some space to breath.

I think INFP/ENFJ relationships would work better. It's my opinion. ENTJ and INFP values are actually very different. I have an ENTJ sister, and we hardly see eye to eye.

But that's just me, who am I to judge it either way. My best advice is to say that type doesn't matter, it's more about the individual. And don't assume that all types follow their set descriptions. INFP/ENTJ pairing is a pretty lax general statement, of all things.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
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What makes you doubt the relationship?
What makes me doubt it, besides the obvious fault in type relationship predictions is that everything I've seen Jem write depends on just what SW said -- confirmation bias.

I haven't seen her much, but literally 100% of what I remember depends on that one-size-fits all perspective, and it's just plain wrong.

That would be like saying that the forum fad INFJ-ENTP relationship was bad to me, it just makes sense that the two would be together (reinforcement of weaknesses, knowing where the other is coming from, basically stuff in the OP).
Here's a tip [fact]: Neither Intuition nor Feeling are necessarily useful in helping an INFJ know where and ENTP is 'coming from' (whatever that means) nor does Thinking really make such a great accomplice for the ENTP in determining the INFJs feelings.

It's a fucking joke.
I heard one guy saying that INTPs should only be with INTPs and ISTJs should only be with ISTJs and so on. He even said "why do you think so many divorces take place?" therein blaming 100% of divorces on type, rather than y'know... what the person's type might cause them to do.
 

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
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INFJ
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4
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sx/sp
This works with the more passive INFPs. With a feisty INFP -- no go.
 

Harlow_Jem

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I feel like you are judging male INFPs as being femenine, passive, off on the sidelines. I don't think it's wise to assume that all are like this, because I know I'm not any of those. But a lot of them are like that.

I am definitely not doing that. My boyfriend is more feminine/passive than the average football-mongering, protein-shake-gobbling meathead but is still very masculine. What I was trying to say is that he's masculine enough to me but the fact that he is still easily affected by his feelings makes him feel sometimes like he isn't masculine enough to himself. But that's just him; he's probably that way because his mother is a crazy bitch who fucks with his head... maybe other INFP males have come to terms with themselves.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
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Society tells us that the proper roles in a relationship are played out when the male is the manly man
By definition, whatever the man does, is manly. Be it archetypal or otherwise.
and the female is the less assertive, sensitive one. Which is why when a healthy INFP male and a healthy ENTJ female meet
I'm still trying to figure out what "healthy" means when you people use it like this. I'm betting there is no consistent definition.

it's absolute magic in a backwards way. The ENTJ female does not need a male who is more "masculine, aggressive" or whatever.
Or "whatever?"

That doesn't sound very convincing. Seems like if you're going to bash a stereotype, you ought to know where it begins and ends.
Where's that ENTJ confidence?
What she you needs want is someone to complement her your own traits and help her you ease into feeling comfortable with her your own, most likely repressed/rejected femininity.
Edited for clarity. *

I am, perhaps, out of date with the statistics, but what figures are you using to assess a standard [i.e. "most likely"] of rejected femininity among ENTJ females?

Conversely, should that not mean that ENTJ males are quite the opposite? Or can we agree that femme/masculine traits are mutually exclusive with type?
What she needs is the sensitive rational male. The INFP male is the sensitive, rational man.


*As a matter of fact I noticed a bit of a trend. From my perspective, it appears as thought you have some kind of preoccupation with femininity. This is a personal stand rather than a typological stand.
Isn't it?
That's fine, but it's rather irresponsible to acclaim the INFP when it's really only your INFP who is necessarily like this.

Give it a few weeks/months.
You'll be itching for a strong he-man sooner than you think.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
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ESFP
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sx/sp
What people are saying in here (everyone) has merit.

So basically people have their opinions on relationships and know what they want. Take OneWithSoul for example, he wants an NF. Naturally he won't lean toward the NT-NF pairing. Then you have me, I want an XXTJ woman. I don't lean toward the NF-NF pairing. Everyone is different.

Then you have what Nocap is saying (WHICH IS TRUE). What I got out of it is basically everything is relative, and that's true.

So with the ENTJ-INFP matchup, it is indeed relative. But when it relates to you, it's a good pairing, and that's the purpose of this thread.
 

Harlow_Jem

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eNTJ
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What makes me doubt it, besides the obvious fault in type relationship predictions is that everything I've seen Jem write depends on just what SW said -- confirmation bias.

I haven't seen her much, but literally 100% of what I remember depends on that one-size-fits all perspective, and it's just plain wrong.

Here's a tip [fact]: Neither Intuition nor Feeling are necessarily useful in helping an INFJ know where and ENTP is 'coming from' (whatever that means) nor does Thinking really make such a great accomplice for the ENTP in determining the INFJs feelings.

It's a fucking joke.
I heard one guy saying that INTPs should only be with INTPs and ISTJs should only be with ISTJs and so on. He even said "why do you think so many divorces take place?" therein blaming 100% of divorces on type, rather than y'know... what the person's type might cause them to do.

Well the fact that I am writing from confirmation bias is a big NO SHIT. Why would I write about something that is completely foreign to me? I'm not a novelist, I'm merely stating my own observations and opinions about things. I acknowledge that my writing style does sound didactic and preachy at times but that doesn't mean I'm not open to opposition in opinion or that I'm ready to punch down the first person who disagrees with me.

That's just the exact point I'm trying to make. I hear alot of opinions and observations made by ISTPs and my first thoughts are usually, "what fcking planet are these people from?" But obviously once I realize that resistance to accepting the way they form their thoughts, etc is worthless as it just closes my mind towards what is perceived as a truth to them, then I can simply learn to better understand how they think/feel about things.

There are many who agree with my so called "one-size-fits-all perspectives." They're written for people who understand me and think like me and to enlighten people who don't think like us to see how we think. If you think they're 100% wrong then obviously you're free to disagree and move on with your own shit.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
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Messages
4,517
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ENTP
Then you have what Nocap is saying (WHICH IS TRUE). What I got out of it is basically everything is relative, and that's true.
Slow down there buccaroo. I didn't say that so explicitly.
It might not be relative. And if it is steady, I doubt very seriously that we've figured out the formula.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
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ENTP
Well the fact that I am writing from confirmation bias is a big NO SHIT. Why would I write about something that is completely foreign to me?
That's not what confirmation bias is about. If we could for a moment, let's step away from the extremes you're so drawn to.

Actually, to begin with, it would be impossible for you to write about something completely foreign to you -- you wouldn't know the terminology... lol.
Looking over that though, it's apparent that you're unfamiliar with the term.

Wikipedia said:
Confirmation bias
In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias is a tendency to search for or interpret new information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions and to avoid information and interpretations which contradict prior beliefs. It is a type of cognitive bias and represents an error of inductive inference, or as a form of selection bias toward confirmation of the hypothesis under study or disconfirmation of an alternative hypothesis.


I'm not a novelist, I'm merely stating my own observations and opinions about things. I acknowledge that my writing style does sound didactic and preachy at times but that doesn't mean I'm not open to opposition in opinion or that I'm ready to punch down the first person who disagrees with me.
Well now you're just being reckless with your words.
Er... I mean moreso than you were.

[Ignoring the flagrant irony you displayed there -- y'know since you are kind of trying to 'punch me down' and I am in fact the first to actively disagree.]
Please point out where I've accused you of not being open.

Coup de Grace:
What you posted were not observations -- it was a dogmatic formula, which, given the context, will be invariably misleading.
After all, I do consider myself an expert typologist, and have invested a great lot of time and energy into ferrying the other members to heightened understanding, and when I see my work being undone, it's only rational for me to become a bit defensive.

That's just the exact point I'm trying to make. I hear alot of opinions and observations made by ISTPs and my first thoughts are usually, "what fcking planet are these people from?" But obviously once I realize that resistance to accepting the way they form their thoughts, etc is worthless as it just closes my mind towards what is perceived as a truth to them, then I can simply learn to better understand how they think/feel about things.
Calm down for a moment. This isn't an attack on your character.

Hey -- I'm just posting my observations of you (and these actually are observations... literal concrete observations) so cut me [and yourself] a little slack.

There are many who agree with my so called "one-size-fits-all perspectives." They're written for people who understand me and think like me and to enlighten people who don't think like us to see how we think. If you think they're 100% wrong then obviously you're free to disagree and move on with your own shit.

Did I say it was 100% wrong? Again with the boolean misinterpretation.

As a matter of fact, I've seen it go wrong.
If you don't believe me, fine, but I guarantee you will find a situation wherein an INFP and an ENTJ don't get along in a relationship if you look hard enough.

Ergo, your assertion is at best plausible. And indeed, it is plausible.
I've also seen ENTJ and INFP work positively. Not forever, but it did work for a good long while.

So indeed, it is plausible. But I mean come on... you can't really ask for anything more than that. Not with just a few inconclusive paragraphs.
 

Harlow_Jem

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eNTJ
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8w9
That's not what confirmation bias is about. If we could for a moment, let's step away from the extremes you're so drawn to.

Actually, to begin with, it would be impossible for you to write about something completely foreign to you -- you wouldn't know the terminology... lol.
Looking over that though, it's apparent that you're unfamiliar with the term.

I do know what the confirmation bias is... how does what I say indicate otherwise? I was agreeing with you that I write objectively from a subjective perspective; the conclusions I come to are derived from and are affirmations of my preconceptions. Now you're simply pointing to random things and saying that I'm wrong and it's making you look like a petty ass.

Well now you're just being reckless with your words.
Er... I mean moreso than you were.

[Ignoring the flagrant irony you displayed there -- y'know since you are kind of trying to 'punch me down' and I am in fact the first to actively disagree.]
Please point out where I've accused you of not being open.

Well since you said, "I haven't seen her much, but literally 100% of what I remember depends on that one-size-fits all perspective, and it's just plain wrong" it's obvious that you're discounting my whole philosophy without giving thought that I make legitimate points.


Coup de Grace:
What you posted were not observations -- it was a dogmatic formula, which, given the context, will be invariably misleading.
After all, I do consider myself an expert typologist, and have invested a great lot of time and energy into ferrying the other members to heightened understanding, and when I see my work being undone, it's only rational for me to become a bit defensive.

Calm down for a moment. This isn't an attack on your character.
If I was any calmer, I'd be dead. Perhaps you take my wording and imagine violent subtext underneath. I'm merely just arguing my side of the argument; it's just an ENTJ thing I suppose, to sound pugnacious when we're really not.

It borders on hilarity that you consider yourself an expert typologist and are so vehement about me being wrong. Typology is the study of people by people; there's a subjectively quality at the basis when forming opinions about other types. If you consider what I say "undoing your work" then I can only come to the conclusion that you are so saturated in your own subjectivity that it renders you incapable of being objective enough to take into account my (and most likely the majority of other's) perspective of things. The title of my OP indicates that the thoughts in the OP are explicitly "from an ENTJ female perspective."

Did I say every INFP is a perfect match with an ENTJ? No. Do I have to add a footnote of disclaimer at the bottom of every one of my posts that they're possibly misleading because they're my thoughts? That's a given. It's not your duty to protect the fragile impressionability of others. Let them think and learn for themselves and decide whether they themselves agree or not.
 

Skyward

Badoom~
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
1,084
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infj
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9w1
I do know what the confirmation bias is... how does what I say indicate otherwise? I was agreeing with you that I write objectively from a subjective perspective; the conclusions I come to are derived from and are affirmations of my preconceptions. Now you're simply pointing to random things and saying that I'm wrong and it's making you look like a petty ass.

Well since you said, "I haven't seen her much, but literally 100% of what I remember depends on that one-size-fits all perspective, and it's just plain wrong" it's obvious that you're discounting my whole philosophy without giving thought that I make legitimate points.

If I was any calmer, I'd be dead. Perhaps you take my wording and imagine violent subtext underneath. I'm merely just arguing my side of the argument; it's just an ENTJ thing I suppose, to sound pugnacious when we're really not.

It borders on hilarity that you consider yourself an expert typologist and are so vehement about me being wrong. Typology is the study of people by people; there's a subjectively quality at the basis when forming opinions about other types. If you consider what I say "undoing your work" then I can only come to the conclusion that you are so saturated in your own subjectivity that it renders you incapable of being objective enough to take into account my (and most likely the majority of other's) perspective of things. The title of my OP indicates that the thoughts in the OP are explicitly "from an ENTJ female perspective."

Did I say every INFP is a perfect match with an ENTJ? No. Do I have to add a footnote of disclaimer at the bottom of every one of my posts that they're possibly misleading because they're my thoughts? That's a given. It's not your duty to protect the fragile impressionability of others. Let them think and learn for themselves and decide whether they themselves agree or not.

QFT
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
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Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,361
i think this thread (initial posting) makes perfect sense, if you are talking about a true dichotomy perceiver who has the functions NiFe. this is not my personal knowledge speaking, but i simply see how it perfectly matches theory.

harlow jem said:
he characteristics of the healthy ENTJ is basically what the INFP wants to have/cultivate in himself;

this is where i can personally agree, and my healthy ENTJ i mean a theoretical ENTJ (the spirit i evoke when reading about the functions happens to be at least one side of my ideal uber self)

but if you happen to talk about those who i interpret es FiNe "infp", then i am confused and inclined to listen to what OneWithSoul had to say. btw, i am sort of horrified by the idea of an relation with ENFJ. this is mostly theoretical, but i can see how my hyper adaptive Fe values would possibly survive the dominant Fe of an enfj. i would probably loose all selfrespect / trust in my judgements. it's competition in the same area. Te is a different area, from the one where i need freedom, so that could work out better.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
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Messages
4,517
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ENTP
I do know what the confirmation bias is... how does what I say indicate otherwise? I was agreeing with you that I write objectively from a subjective perspective; the conclusions I come to are derived from and are affirmations of my preconceptions. Now you're simply pointing to random things and saying that I'm wrong and it's making you look like a petty ass.
You're... not paying attention.

Listen. Confirmation bias is when you search only for the things that support your conclusion, and put those in higher priority than those which don't support your idea.

You did that. Come on now. It's game over -- you can't prove conclusively that INFP is even a good match, let alone ideal. Don't talk to me about writing objectively.
What you wrote is absolutely subjective.

Well since you said, "I haven't seen her much, but literally 100% of what I remember depends on that one-size-fits all perspective, and it's just plain wrong" it's obvious that you're discounting my whole philosophy without giving thought that I make legitimate points.
I don't understand how seeing that you make the most common logical fallacy means that I've discounted your every point.

Jeez you're putting words in my mouth now.


If I was any calmer, I'd be dead. Perhaps you take my wording and imagine violent subtext underneath. I'm merely just arguing my side of the argument; it's just an ENTJ thing I suppose, to sound pugnacious when we're really not.
This also has nothing to do with type. You might be able to excuse employing extroversion as a cause, but... not really.

It borders on hilarity that you consider yourself an expert typologist and are so vehement about me being wrong. Typology is the study of people by people
No typology is the study of types.
there's a subjectively quality at the basis
And here is where you're wrong. It's not subjective. The types are built off of a few perfectly distinguished elements. The structure is subjective, but those elements are not. I possess a profound understanding of those elements.
Like found in a building, the structure requires a strong foundation.

when forming opinions about other types. If you consider what I say "undoing your work" then I can only come to the conclusion that you are so saturated in your own subjectivity that it renders you incapable of being objective enough to take into account my (and most likely the majority of other's) perspective of things.
That's the point -- it doesn't matter what other people say. Studying any object means that it's got nothing to do with perspective.

If you're doing it right, Neo-Jungian Typology is an objective metric, not a series of floating nebulous ideas.


The title of my OP indicates that the thoughts in the OP are explicitly "from an ENTJ female perspective."
Right. It was personal.
Which is fine, but then why do you propound this matchup as if it will work this way for any and all incarnations?
Talk about your own experiences, not the would be INFP and ENTJ experiences.

Since you didn't, what you said is potentially misleading.

Did I say every INFP is a perfect match with an ENTJ? No.
Not explicitly, but after hearing "The INFP" a dozen or so times, it's only natural to think that you're talking about all of them, and not just one in particular.
Do I have to add a footnote of disclaimer at the bottom of every one of my posts that they're possibly misleading because they're my thoughts?
No, actually, you can make it clear in your post (since you did say they were YOUR experiences) by mentioning the actual experiences. I saw none.
All I saw were abstract references using "The" rather than "My".

It's not your duty to protect the fragile impressionability of others. Let them think and learn for themselves and decide whether they themselves agree or not.
How hypocritical can you get?

At the same time it's not my responsibility to protect the other forum members, it's not you're responsibility to make sure I don't.

Get off my case -- you're the one who screwed up.
Just confess it, correct it, and move on.

Talk about not being open...
 
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