[ENFJ] ENFJ+ESTP as lovers= yes or no?

[Kalach]

I feel there is no type I cannot establish "dominance" over,

Um... dude?

Like, it's probably true, and I guess for some people it'll be beneficial, but you know some people are going to fight you tooth and nail, right? Do you know that? And you probably will win. And it'll be so very empty a win. All sorts of military metaphors apply. Like for example, the ground you win will be so very much fought over that nothing will grow. Even that military metaphors can be applied should be a monster warning.

You have the drive so you have the power. You'll need the intuition. You'll need to make sure you can see all the possibilities. Crushing people into the shape you expect them to be is going to be just too often the easier choice.

After all, love does not conquer all. Only conquering all conquers all.

 

[lorkan]

Im actually concearned about the different energy-level between the ESTP and ENFJ. ESTP's being extremely talkative and desire to be on the move wouldn't click so well with the N side of ENFJ, im guessing. I'm not so sure you actually enjoy it in a long run, compared to an ENTP or INTP. ENFJ's being blind to ESTP's thinking doesn't do much good, it would probably piss of the ESTP after awhile. I know for a fact that all the ESTP's I talk to loves me after embracing their intelligence (like all thinkers), and I kinda see the boiling underlying heat between my ENFJ math teacher and ESTP colleages whenever they interact. The ESTP's Ti is like "blablabla" in the ears of the ENFJ, that doesn't start good.

 

[missellis75]

My best friend is and ESTP. I think you will be just fine.

She and I do however have some of the obvious hangups mentioned here. I am SO bad about asking her what she is thinking/feeling--I do this almost every day. But we are close enough now that she usually is comfy enough to at least (on a really rough day) just shrug her shoulders and look pained; I obviously pick up on this right away lol.

Another problem is the issue of activity. We are both "active seekers of activity" but neither of us is very good at generating or planning out activities for us, so we end up going around in circles or getting stuck in little hiccups. These are not a problem once we accept and get the awkwardness.

I guess that is my best suggestion to you--make sure you know her well enough that you can trust her (so if she does feel cornered and tries to hurt you, then you know how to forgive her), and keep good humor and faith in the relationship. That means keep it low pressure and maybe even low commitment (or just at first).

closing remarks: two things that always immediately alleviate awkwardness: little safe words (mine is a rapid-fire string of "okayokayokayokayokay."), they make us laugh and instantly move on from whatever had us in a rut. and making a habit of telling each other how much we like and care for each other (with a focus on trust and dependence on each other) it makes me feel emotionally needed, and it makes her feel safe.

good times! and good luck to you!

 

[Kungpowish]

I feel there is no type I cannot establish "dominance" over.

I think it's this feeling that got Chris so worked up. ENFJs spend our lives achieving and being told how great we are by parents and peers and it breeds arrogance. Not to say I'm above it, I felt my ego welling up strong whenever someone said ENFJs couldn't break ESTPs, because I'm used to being able to do something if I really want to, ESPECIALLY if it has to do with people. But I have had experiences where someone (probably an ESTP) just didn't care what I thought about them or their behavior and it was like hitting a wall, definitely not an experience I want to have again.

 

[Jonathanthegreat]

I think it's this feeling that got Chris so worked up. ENFJs spend our lives achieving and being told how great we are by parents and peers and it breeds arrogance. Not to say I'm above it, I felt my ego welling up strong whenever someone said ENFJs couldn't break ESTPs, because I'm used to being able to do something if I really want to, ESPECIALLY if it has to do with people. But I have had experiences where someone (probably an ESTP) just didn't care what I thought about them or their behavior and it was like hitting a wall, definitely not an experience I want to have again.

Even the great berlin wall fell my friend. But above all with great power comes great responsibility. We all should use our gifts for good and nothing else....so listen up you NT's lol jk

 

[maliafee]

I think being an ESTP would be both scary and thrilling all at once. I'd be a holy terror.

I mean just look at Angelina Jolie. She *is* Laura Croft for crying out loud.

Weird. I always thought she was an ENFP. Have you seen interviews? Just sayin'...

 

[maliafee]

LOL sooo true! You could have been describing my ESTP mate.

ESTPs are kinda a conundrum, because the poster is right, they can have a very sweet, affectionate side. But piss them off and they will find a way to WIN the argument at all costs. That's another thing about ESTPs, they have a strong need to be in charge in charge the majority of the time. (I tease mine by calling him "top pig.") They don't try to be in charge in a mean, domineering way like you might see in some other types, and once their position atop the hierarchy is secure they are usually laidback, romantic, fun-loving, and sweet. (And they're not looking for someone they can walk all over; they want someone who will stand up for themselves when necessary and set boundaries.) But they do like to be in charge nonetheless. If you're the type of person who doesn't mind that, it can go very well. But if you're more alpha than beta, there could be fireworks, and not in a good way.

This so reminds me of watching my older brother ESTP with our little ENTJ brother (almost 9 years younger than him) as kids. The ESTP (age 13) would ask all sweet-like, "What are you gonna do?" and the ENTJ little one would answer, "Everything you say!" which didn't last long -- as adults there has been major fireworks between the two toughie types.

Also, my ESTP brother was always in charge of pulling our loose teeth and riding bikes with us through uncharted woods. Hooray.

 

[ENFJ_Catholic]

I see no use for it and lashing out against someone you love is not something that would be productive for the relationship in ANY way. Therefore I shall never do it. I feel there is no type I cannot establish "dominance" over, however with great power comes great responsibility.

A crushed flower is still a crushed flower, no matter what the particular type it is we ENFJs try to "fix." The key in all personal development is let the person we encounter to grow first...not to get our "dirty paws" all over the plant before it has a chance to fully bloom.

We mustn't crush the flower. We must let it grow on its own terms. I'm not sure an ESTP-ENFJ romantic relationship be that harmonious—there might be too many variables to overcome. It ultimately depends upon the individual people involved though. Best of luck!

 

[FC3S]

An ENFJ + ESTP? I can see both defending the other's weak points and watching the other's backs. But I only see this if both were healthy. If so much as one is unhealthy, sparks are going to fly and other people caught up in it are going to suffer.

From personal experience - I'm an unhealthy ESTP and I duked it out with what I believe is an equally unhealthy ENFJ. Seven years of friendship - gone.

My advice - if you really must, take it very slowly, very, very, very slowly and hammer out an alliance.

 

[Jonathanthegreat]

An ENFJ + ESTP? I can see both defending the other's weak points and watching the other's backs. But I only see this if both were healthy. If so much as one is unhealthy, sparks are going to fly and other people caught up in it are going to suffer.

From personal experience - I'm an unhealthy ESTP and I duked it out with what I believe is an equally unhealthy ENFJ. Seven years of friendship - gone.

My advice - if you really must, take it very slowly, very, very, very slowly and hammer out an alliance.

What do you mean seven years of friendship gone? Also recently she told me she can't talk to me anymore because she is liking me more than her b/f and that she'll speak to me in the "future". Before she's referenced her b/f as a "speed bump" etc. He verbally abuses her, she deserves far better. If a man doesn't love his wife/girlfriend, he doesn't love himself.

 

[FC3S]

What do you mean seven years of friendship gone? Also recently she told me she can't talk to me anymore because she is liking me more than her b/f and that she'll speak to me in the "future". Before she's referenced her b/f as a "speed bump" etc. He verbally abuses her, she deserves far better. If a man doesn't love his wife/girlfriend, he doesn't love himself.

In short I knew an ENFJ for about seven years. We were finally in each other's focus, if that makes any sense. However, what one said torqued off the other and it only escalated. We came back, promptly apologized and hammered out an agreement. It didn't last, things escalated again and she cut relations.

Just thinking about this fills me with a sadistic kind of smile - and it's not something I'm proud of.

 

[Jonathanthegreat]

Yea she cut me off. Thing is I don't see her not being of low enough value just to accept it and walk away. I'm going to prove to her that I really care and that I won't accept her cutting me off. She is a verbally abusive relationship with an ENTJ or INTJ, only reason I say ENTJ is because he used to be a drug dealer and I know a few ENTJ dealers (from my past, I am drug free now thanks to Jesus ) and INTJ i think just because he looks like an INTJ friend of mine. ANYWAYS, he doesn't seem to love her because if you love someone you'd never say something specifically to hurt their feelings, in his case "You have a fat ass" he wasn't joking either. it cut me to the core to see her read that text message he sent. I've noticed that the abuse is cyclical in their relationship. I just hope she can break free from the cycle because she deserves a better man in her life, even if it isn't me. She has permitted me to contact her on her birthday and I plan to get her multiple gifts, NO not to manipulate her and try and sway her with physical things but honestly because I really care about her. so yea that's the boat i'm sailing in now I'm remaining positive throughout this entire journey. I don't plan on failing and hopefully she'll realize this guy is not good enough for her unless he changes RIGHT NOW and stops being verbally abusive to her, because that is totally unacceptable.

if anyone actually read this you're awesome. because that's a lot.

 

[ENFJ_Catholic]

You're charting into choppy waters. Be on watch for the icebergs ahead.

Be open with her and lay it on the line. If she'll break the cycle then you've done your part. Be careful to see to it not to expect her to come your way. We ENFJ males can have that way of thinking way things should work out but actually don't. Peace and prayers...

 

[Jonathanthegreat]

You're charting into choppy waters. Be on watch for the icebergs ahead.

Be open with her and lay it on the line. If she'll break the cycle then you've done your part. Be careful to see to it not to expect her to come your way. We ENFJ males can have that way of thinking way things should work out but actually don't. Peace and prayers...

I see that you may be catholic so I'll share my faith with you. I pray for her twice a day and I've heard from God about what needs to be done. In Mark 9:23 Jesus said "Nothing is impossible to Him that believes". It's not God's will for her to be with this guy according to His word. I know I didn't meet her by chance either. Everything happens for a reason and I believe God answers prayers!

 

[ENFJ_Catholic]

Prayer at all times...

I see that you may be catholic so I'll share my faith with you. I pray for her twice a day and I've heard from God about what needs to be done. In Mark 9:23 Jesus said "Nothing is impossible to Him that believes". It's not God's will for her to be with this guy according to His word. I know I didn't meet her by chance either. Everything happens for a reason and I believe God answers prayers!

All things have reason to them, yes. And your prayers are not misguided. I was merely pointing out the obvious—that rough waters are ahead.

"With all prayer and supplication, pray at every opportunity in the Spirit. To that end, be watchful with all perseverance and supplication for all the holy ones and also for me, that speech may be given me to open my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel for which I am an ambassador in chains, so that I may have the courage to speak as I must." Ephesians 6:18-20

Just know that we cannot change people, they are changed first in themselves. When that change in themselves is made, they will be more open to you and the change that is ultimately needed for the better.

And yes, I am Catholic. Christianity through the Catholic lens does help me to look on the world and do my best to good and to live life and have it more abundantly.

I shall keep both of you in my prayers. Again, may peace be with you and with her.

 

[chris1207]

She has permitted me to contact her on her birthday and I plan to get her multiple gifts, NO not to manipulate her and try and sway her with physical things but honestly because I really care about her. so yea that's the boat i'm sailing in now

I wouldn't even bother if she cut you off that badly. I've seen that before myself and if I did again I would just move on and find a nice INFP girl. I wouldn't be doing my Fe service if I didn't tell you this.

 

[Jonathanthegreat]

I wouldn't even bother if she cut you off that badly. I've seen that before myself and if I did again I would just move on and find a nice INFP girl. I wouldn't be doing my Fe service if I didn't tell you this.

Thank you for your opinion! I just can't deal with the gloominess of the INFP but I do love them! Just not as an ideal mate for me. I hope this does not offend you.

 

[Jonathanthegreat]

All things have reason to them, yes. And your prayers are not misguided. I was merely pointing out the obvious—that rough waters are ahead.

"With all prayer and supplication, pray at every opportunity in the Spirit. To that end, be watchful with all perseverance and supplication for all the holy ones and also for me, that speech may be given me to open my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel for which I am an ambassador in chains, so that I may have the courage to speak as I must." Ephesians 6:18-20

Just know that we cannot change people, they are changed first in themselves. When that change in themselves is made, they will be more open to you and the change that is ultimately needed for the better.

And yes, I am Catholic. Christianity through the Catholic lens does help me to look on the world and do my best to good and to live life and have it more abundantly.

I shall keep both of you in my prayers. Again, may peace be with you and with her.

Pentecostal here! But Praise God for us believing in the one True God!

 

[StephMC]

What do you mean seven years of friendship gone? Also recently she told me she can't talk to me anymore because she is liking me more than her b/f and that she'll speak to me in the "future". Before she's referenced her b/f as a "speed bump" etc. He verbally abuses her, she deserves far better. If a man doesn't love his wife/girlfriend, he doesn't love himself.

Just curious... have you told her how you felt about this? .... Be careful if you do. If you say something like "He doesn't love you, so why are you doing this to yourself?" or -anything- that remotely resembles that... as an STP, I can tell you that I wouldn't respond well to that. Yeah, we're not very in tune with our "F" side... so we get pretty defensive when an F tries to tell us we're making a mistake on the relationship front, ESPECIALLY an F that we care about a lot romantically. Trust me. I just experienced this recently from an ENFP I care a lot about, lecturing about how I'm wasting my time with another guy. You really need to tread carefully there. We -know- your intentions are good, but it's really hard to listen to advice about our love life coming from a guy we care about. I can tell you, if she told you she cares about you... she's not bullshitting. STPs don't bullshit when it comes to romantic interests. We're either there, or we're not. We won't waste our time with someone we don't care about, or have no interest in. She's not with you for a reason she thinks is practical. I can't tell you exactly what that is, but maybe you already know, eh? Trust your intuition.

 

[Domino]

Be careful with a savior complex, bro. She's a big girl. She got herself into that relationship and she can get herself back out. You don't want to be mixed up in it, esp if her old man is bad news.