[MBTI General] How do you deal with someone not liking you?

[violaine]

Kissing up is also against my moral code and right now I have no desire to compliment her. Honestly I think she's kind of stupid (though that may be her insults talking). I think I let things go at first (and I've known her for almost two months now so I've got a good half a dozen times where she was mean) because I think that I must have been mistaken, that someone wouldn't *really* mean that. Then, by the time I realize that, yes, they do (say, around the beginning of last week) people already think I'm a pushover when in fact I often don't realize I've been insulted until an hour or so after the fact (erm, I'm adhd and while it obviously doesn't manifest like it did when I was a kid, it takes me a while to process social stuff, I'm like that with other reactions too, won't realize someone's flirted with me until they're already gone, but my friends assure me that it's not obvious and I just seem a little spacey/quirky).
I would like to confront her but I also worry about being made into the bad guy.

I was a similar way in childhood.

But then, I really need to stand up for myself, don't I?

Yeah. It might not be easy, but living with the feeling, (once you realize it), of being someone's target/toy/doormat is much worse. I don't love conflict and I am attached to being polite but I find I have no trouble at all standing up for myself since I actively started doing it.

 

[Orangey]

I forgot to add, take every opportunity to call her out on stupid things said, and do it as though you are bored, if you take the indifference approach. It will drive her nuts...If you do it enough, and if you are lucky she'll lose her temper (and she will) in front of your friends and maybe go into full attack mode. Either way her true colours are shown.
Did I sound manipulative?
Oh, And make sure you have some one who has your back.

Yeah, this is what I meant when I said to passive aggressively goad her into a full-fleshed expression of nastiness.

 

[briochick]

Yeah. It might not be easy, but living with the feeling, (once you realize it), of being someone's target/toy/doormat is much worse .

*sigh* don't I know it.

 

[nonsequitur]

There are some people who do this with the sole purpose of squashing others down to make themselves feel better. In that round-about way, because you're just TAKING it, you're inflating their ego.

I feel sorry for them. I don't cry when others insult me. My response is usually "why thank you".

e.g. "I really liked that skirt and then I realized you were wearing it."

My response: "Why thank you. I think I have good taste in clothes too."

Just ignore the insensitive and completely rubbish part. They'll stop it. If they come right out and insult you, others will defend you. If they don't, you need to reconsider your friends.

 

[violaine]

*sigh* don't I know it.

Yeah. I really think that is actually very bad for a person in the long term.

 

[Totenkindly]

She could just as easily be ESFJ. Especially with the "subtlety."

Yes, and you think an ESFJ approaches things any other way?

It's not necessarily "she doesn't like you," although F people do tend to personalize things.

It's her way of approaching life... just like you have yours. ESFJ is very much a "move against" personality in Karen Horney's philosophy. When they have issues or anxiety over something, they will NOT try to be compliant and they will NOT withdraw, they will tackle the bull by the horns. This is her way of dealing with conflict. (You probably either withdraw or get compliant, and meanwhile, your LAST mode of operation is probably "moving against.")

What helped me was understand that this isn't something necessarily personal, this is their way of approaching the world, and what I needed to learn to do was push back if I disagreed with what they were doing or saying. They LIKE engagement, it clarifies exactly who thinks what, what's going on, and what needs to be done; they appreciate it, and tend to see compliant people or withdrawers as either cowards or lightweights who can't engage.

Once I knew that engagement and pushbacks were okay, even if they pushed back on me again, I could let myself do it without freaking out over it.

Anyway, much of the conflict here seemed more strategy-based, not personal dislike per se... although earlier in life people do translate anxiety/conflict into "someone likes me versus someone hates me". Later conflict just becomes something to work through together.

Disclaimer: You're from a different culture than mine, my comments are based on my westernized culture and I don't know whether there are things in your culture that would modify my perceptions if I knew them.

 

[briochick]

Yes, and you think an ESFJ approaches things any other way?

It's not necessarily "she doesn't like you," although F people do tend to personalize things.

It's her way of approaching life... just like you have yours. ESFJ is very much a "move against" personality in Karen Horney's philosophy. When they have issues or anxiety over something, they will NOT try to be compliant and they will NOT withdraw, they will tackle the bull by the horns. This is her way of dealing with conflict. (You probably either withdraw or get compliant, and meanwhile, your LAST mode of operation is probably "moving against.")

What helped me was understand that this isn't something necessarily personal, this is their way of approaching the world, and what I needed to learn to do was push back if I disagreed with what they were doing or saying. They LIKE engagement, it clarifies exactly who thinks what, what's going on, and what needs to be done; they appreciate it, and tend to see compliant people or withdrawers as either cowards or lightweights who can't engage.

Once I knew that engagement and pushbacks were okay, even if they pushed back on me again, I could let myself do it without freaking out over it.

Anyway, much of the conflict here seemed more strategy-based, not personal dislike per se... although earlier in life people do translate anxiety/conflict into "someone likes me versus someone hates me". Later conflict just becomes something to work through together.

Disclaimer: You're from a different culture than mine, my comments are based on my westernized culture and I don't know whether there are things in your culture that would modify my perceptions if I knew them.

Thank you for pointing that out. I am from Western culture by the way, I just live in South Korea. >,< I teach English. This other lady is Canadian. So, this is a conflict of Westerners.

nonsequiter: the advantage to being me is that during the initial insult I'm usually too confused/shocked to respond much at all so I haven't gotten upset or angry or teary or anything. I did actually say thank you to the skirt comment, lol, I didn't know what else to say.

 

[antireconciler]

What helped me was understand that this isn't something necessarily personal, this is their way of approaching the world, and what I needed to learn to do was push back if I disagreed with what they were doing or saying. They LIKE engagement, it clarifies exactly who thinks what, what's going on, and what needs to be done; they appreciate it, and tend to see compliant people or withdrawers as either cowards or lightweights who can't engage.

Once I knew that engagement and pushbacks were okay, even if they pushed back on me again, I could let myself do it without freaking out over it.

I like this. People can feel threatened and can feel themselves insulted and rejected, in a way, by someone who fails to engage them (you think you're above me that you can ignore me like that?) which only further encourages the behavior.

There are some people who do this with the sole purpose of squashing others down to make themselves feel better. In that round-about way, because you're just TAKING it, you're inflating their ego.

I feel sorry for them. I don't cry when others insult me. My response is usually "why thank you".

e.g. "I really liked that skirt and then I realized you were wearing it."

My response: "Why thank you. I think I have good taste in clothes too."

Just ignore the insensitive and completely rubbish part. They'll stop it. If they come right out and insult you, others will defend you. If they don't, you need to reconsider your friends.

I enjoy your attitude. I also agree that taking poor treatment from someone is in a strange way can be a somewhat aggressive action because it acknowledges the existence of a hierarchy between both people in which each has their place. But to acknowledge a hierarchy is also in a sense to establish the rules of a relationship as hierarchical yourself, such that IF the lower person had the opportunity, they would assert dominance over the higher. Justified they might feel, and yet it is an aggressive approach, even veiled in passivity.

I do highly respect your approach. In effect, it commands it. Very good for you!

 

[MrME]

Not everybody is worth knowing. Period. This classmate sounds exaxctly like that kind of person. Don't strive for her approval, you're better off without it.

Tell the teacher you refuse to be paired up with her again, and why.

 

[Tiltyred]

"I really liked that skirt and then I realized you were wearing it."

I think I'd play it with innocent angel eyes and the sweetest puzzled smile and the tenderist voice, "Oh. I don't understand ... ? what do you mean?" while looking straight at her like you expect something magical and sweet to fly out of her mouth, like you could not imagine she would say something bitchy to you. And to anyone else in the room, turn to one of them and say "She just said she really liked my skirt until she realized I was wearing it! I don't know what that means, do you? What did you mean by it?"

In other words, I'd gently torture her with it at least once every time we met, and I would tell it as one of those funny stories about how you became associated, "Tra la, this one has such a sense of humor, do you know she said to me that she really liked my skirt until she realized I was wearing it! and then just laugh and laugh, in a teasing way toward her, like "she says the weirdest things, you never know what's going to come out of that mouth."

 

[speculative]

Lol@Tiltyred!

Did she say,

"I really liked that skirt until I realized you were wearing it,"
or
"I really liked that skirt until I realized that you were wearing it."
or
"I really liked that skirt until I realize that you were wearing it."

In the first statement, she is jealous that you "claimed" the skirt first before she was able to. (Girls can't wear the same clothes for whatever reason. )

In the second statement, she is a klepto with a boundary issue - steer clear. She may steal the shirt off your back!

In the third statement, she is being genuinely rude.

These things are so hard to "read" over the Internet. My sense is, she feels insecure being in a foreign land and is trying to get the upper hand in the pecking order over you, in an unscrupulous manner...

 

[Athenian200]

The only solution I could come up with in a situation like that is to get away from the group you're in that she's spending time with (if possible). She obviously wants you gone, and it's better not to fight it, because it will get messy if you do.

Besides, if everyone else in that group likes her, then they're probably not that much different from her, and will probably eventually start treating you (and each other) the same way. The fact that she was drawn to that group tells you what kind of people they are, because usually the sort of people a person associates with tells you a lot about them.

If you can't get out of the situation because of a class or something, just make sure you don't spend any extra time around this group that you don't have to spend for your assignments.

Sorry I can't see a better solution. You just can't win with people like this.

 

[kiddykat]

I normally try to avoid unhappy conflict.

Same here..

I think, even if u 2 did have a talk about it, I think if she doesn't respect you as a person to begin with.. then that is HER problem.

Some people for whatever reason, have their own ways of relating to people in *that* fashion. Fakeness. Not that they are bad people. They're just different.

I think your hunch is right. And, I think by no means do you need to stay in toxic environments like that. Focus on a more healthy environment. If you have to deal with her on a regular- smile, but keep your distance. That is how I get along best with people who are like that.

Edit: I worked with someone like that.. My friend says, "misery loves company." Not sure if that is true, but I tend to notice that when some people see that there are others who are 'truly' happy with themselves, they for some reason, feel the need to pull them down.. In some ways, I feel sorry for them; shows a lack of understanding they have for themselves? Hence, the unhappiness?

It's best to dust it off. If it bugs u majorly, then I would try to think of something else. Life's too short. Enjoy it while you can right? Let her live in her own world; you live in yours- filled with happiness and whatever brings gratitude in that path..

 

[Rangler]

Seriously.
There's this woman who's begun to hang out recently with the same 'group' that I hang out with. I would say 'insinuated herself within' might be a better term. Everyone seems to think she's innocent but she'll just sort of say or do kind of nasty little things to me. ie. she said "I really liked that skirt and then I realized you were wearing it." Or, we're in the same class and we were supposed to practice with the person behind us and she was behind me so she just got up and walked out and didn't return until the exercise was almost over. Ah, and lately we went to this "movie room" and I told the group "anything but chick flicks" and while I was looking through the movies she picked a chick flick and got the other girls to say ok. Then later, when I was unhappy, she said "oh, was that a chick flick?" What else *is* a romantic comedy with no plot *other* than a chick flick? And then she was like "I guess that's the trouble of doing things in groups, someone's always disappointed."
I really can't tell if anyone else can tell how she's behaving toward me and I don't spend time with her so I don't really feel like I can just invite her to coffee and say "so, you don't like me." Also, the stuff she says is just...it seems subtly mean, so if I call her on it she could easily say that I just didn't understand and then I would look rash and stupid. But...Why on earth doesn't she like me?!
She's ESFx. And, I think she may be an Artisan. Why? Shes' a drama teacher, she seems really disingenuine to me, she thinks that 'oh, because I felt it' is a valid reason for doing anything.
Any ideas? How should I respond? I normally try to avoid unhappy conflict.

From what you describe, this girl is a passive-aggressive bitch who is trying to make you look and feel low value. The upside is she can be easily out classed. The downside is: if you play her game, you will lose. To me, this is really just a head game.

1. She provokes you.
2. You feel negative emotions.
3. You express those feelings.
4. People see you reacting, and assign you a lower value.

1.Develop Indifference
Accept the situation. She will keep trying to provoke you to you react. You need to prepare yourself mentally for that. You need an unbreakable positive mental frame. Take the attitude that her actions are a complement and appreciate her effort. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. She may be motivated by negativity, but she still finds you worthy of effort. This means until you react to her, you are the powerful one. Before that point, she is reacting to you. You should also appreciate the opportunity for self-development she brings. Let her focus be on the short-term, and yours on the long-term. This will cultivate an powerful frame of indifference and non-reaction to her.

What ever she cares about, be indifferent to. Have no opinion initially. If another person disagrees with her choices openly, support how that person feels by appealing to a high value, like fairness. Let her short-term focus be on fulfilling her self-interest. Let your focus be on fulfilling the groups interests. She seems to wait for you to signal your desire, then act to circumvent it. Flip the script. True indifference signals nothing.

You also need to be indifferent to her when she is not around. Don't gossip about her. In fact, purposely over defend her when she is not around. Use the principle of resistance. If you over advocate for her while she's not there, others will feel the need to resist you by trying to find her flaws.

2. Confident Humor
Anything she says to you laugh off. If she tries to burn you or put you on the spot with an unexpected compliment, you should make light of yourself. This is a process called disqualification. It shows you are confident with your flaws and humble about your strengths. There is a simple formula for it: agree + negative exaggeration. It doesn't have to be witty to have it's effect. Instead of resisting her, you leverage her. Though, if a person insists on complimenting you or is sincere, just say thank you.

A few examples:

Her: Your joke wasn't funny.
You: I know, usually I pay them to laugh... I'm broke at the moment.

Her: Looks like it's that time of the month.
You: Totally, look out for bitchzilla.

Her: Wow, you lost weight.
You: Thanks, I guess these optical illusion pants were a good investment.
Her: No, I mean it.
You: Thank you.

Her: Let's watch a romantic comedy.
You: Sure, we can pretend we're 40 and desperate for true love.
Her: Well, you can.
You: Ok young lass.

Her: I guess that's the trouble of doing things in groups, someone's always disappointed.
You: Ya, do you want to see my puppy face?

I hope this helps. There may be other things you can do as well. Ultimately the lesson here is not to resist, first accept then leverage. Like judo, use her strength against her. By doing these things the person will eventually give up or try harder, in which case the person exposes themselves to the group as a jerk. This is also a pretty effective way to deal with ENTPs who want to step up, as button-pushing is their bread and butter.

 

[briochick]

Eep. Apparently my email didn't tell me more people had written on this thread. Thank you guys for all your comments and suggestions!

Her: Your joke wasn't funny.
You: I know, usually I pay them to laugh... I'm broke at the moment.

ROFL
p.s. I will try to use that bit about accepting and leveraging an ENTP, because it recently occurred to me that this guy who totally gets under my skin may (I'm often torn between wanting to kick him in the nuts or strangle him or laugh at him) in fact be an ENTP.

The only solution I could come up with in a situation like that is to get away from the group you're in that she's spending time with (if possible). She obviously wants you gone, and it's better not to fight it, because it will get messy if you do.

Besides, if everyone else in that group likes her, then they're probably not that much different from her, and will probably eventually start treating you (and each other) the same way. The fact that she was drawn to that group tells you what kind of people they are, because usually the sort of people a person associates with tells you a lot about them.

I did talk with the one person in the group whose company I enjoy (I mean, they all have really nice things about them, but...I'm not really comfortable, I started hanging out with them because they were the only ones to hang out with. When you're in a foreign country you don't have a lot to choose from) about this woman. She said that she had noticed it after I'd told her I didn't want to hang out because I didn't think the woman liked me. We talked a little and she said that this lady was "like that" and "doesn't like people who have different opinions" and assured me I wasn't the only one to get her disapproval. It was the first time I talked with anyone in rl about this lady and it was the last. As far as I'm concerned the issue doesn't need to be discussed much more.

I do believe that if I play her game others will see it and she will gain more standing in the 'group', and I'll be no better than her by stooping to her level. I ignored her the last time I saw her and I will choose to be cordial but indifferent in the short while I have left here.

I have also begun to hang out with people individually, it's more comfortable for me and, well, it generally keeps me away from the people who don't like me for whatever reason.

 

[Riva]

i think the ENNEAGRAMs have a better explanation about these than MBTI. read it if you care to know.

 

[Sentura]

i would /ignore

i have no patience for people who have no patience for me. if whoever wants to rub it in, go ahead. to me, there are more important things than trivial squabbles within groups.

 

[SpaZZakaZZ]

OMG I've had so many people like that in my life! I think there is something about us that makes us seem like easy targets for that shit. I found it interesting how all the INFJs on here said to call her on it like the solution was obvious. Different ways of thinking. It's really hard to do that in practice, especially when you try to say something and they just turn it in your face and you don't know how to respond because your brain doesn't work fast enough. I also find that since you are offended that they are treating you like this, you seem more offended than you should be, like you're overreacting. They make it seem like you just can't take a joke, when you know full well they are trying to undermine you, and they wouldn't speak to a more obviously outgoing person like that.
Speak out as much as your pride requires. Maybe next time say laughingly, "you don't put things very well, did you realise that's a bit rude?" but don't act like it's a big deal. She'll probably say something bitchy back, but then you can say, "It's just a comment, you don't have to overreact, you just do it quite often and I wasn't sure if you noticed." Try not to make your comments about her character and keep it very noncommittal. Eg, don't say "You're rude", say "That was a little rude"
DON'T get into playing her own game. For one, you would be lowering yourself, two, she will be better at it than you.
DON'T bitch about her behind her back, if someone tells her you will never hear the end of it!
It might help to make comments that show you are aware of what just happened but that don't complain about it. Which might be hard if it takes you a while to notice Like with the chick flick say "oh well I guess it brings out my feminine side" so it shows you noticed she chose a chick flick but you are soooo not concerned by it. It probably won't stop her doing things like that, but you will feel like you aren't just letting her walk all over you, but without making the relationship more aggressive. She is not worth the stress and energy of getting into conflict with her. And if you are always civil and she is always nasty, people will notice eventually. People like her can sometimes seem "cool" and others might want her around because of that, but eventually they will get sick of her bitchiness and get rid of her. Especially now you are adults.
And remember this is her problem, she's the bitch, there's nothing wrong with you. But you probably already know that.
Just be nice to the rest of the people in the group, spend time with them without her being around, and build those relationships.


*edit*
If she does start a direct conflict with you, tell her confidently she's acting very immaturely and she needs to get over it. And if she pushes it further say you don't want to discuss it any more, you've told her what you think and if that's how she's going to act you'd rather she just didn't hang around with the group when you were there.

 

[ThinkingAboutIt]

Seems to me to be one of two things:

1. she is reacting to your attempt to control the group and make it difficult for her to be incorporated/a part of it.
2. she is jealous or threatened by you.

Either way, she is trying to tear you down through control and inferiority and she is controlling your thoughts and your feelings. Take personal control back - I would do it with unemotional confrontation if I thought it was necessary. I would acknowledge and rectify any part I played in it if that was the case.

I get along with just about everyone and people tend to like me, but I don't give two cents if someone likes me or not. I also have zero desire to control anyone or anything lol. This is not an attitude, it is a way of living. Giving someone power or control over you is a choice.

 

[ArtlessFuture]

I think we INFPs can sometimes come across as submissive and easily pushed around. And sometimes we are!

I would suggest that you think of something to say that is unemotional. I would ask her a question. Let's take the skirt comment for instance. You could have just played dumb and said something like, "So the skirt is ugly because I'm wearing it? I don't understand." This is a tactic I have personally been looking to try out. If you said something like that, it has to be completely devoid of aggression or sarcasm. You need to sound genuinely baffled or confused. I guarantee it will knock her for a loop. If she were to repeat herself by stating, "yes. its ugly because you are wearing it." You could come back with something like, "That doesn't make any sense to me. Why would a clothing item's beauty change based on something like that?" And just continue to pretend that you are genuinely confused by her statements, and see what happens.

If you treat her in this way, you will completely come at her from a different angle than what she is expecting. The usual responses would be either ignoring her, attacking her back, or submitting to her. So she probably has a programmed response to those reactions.

From what you have told us, it seems that she is jealous of you, or perceives you as a threat. Like you said, having a frank conversation will probably not do much with her. Sometimes you have to be imaginative to deal with these sort of people. Don't worry, sooner or later your friends will see her for what she is. But in the meantime, let us know if you make any progress with this.