[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Cultivating the F?

[juggernaut]

to OP: have you ever thought of ESTJ as your type? Because Te is the most abstract compared to other functions that are not N. If your dominant function Te overpower your auxiliary, then it might be the reason why you tested as ENTJ. Your Si seems to be much higher than your Ni.

I've known some ESTJs IRL that got the test result as ENTJ. But they agreed that the description of ESTJ fits them more.

Noooo, ESTJ is definitely not me. If a rule doesn't work for me, it's not a rule of mine. If something ceases to be useful, productive, or interesting it's history. I like organization, but only in my own life and in an effort to meet my own ends. I have no interest in honoring tradition or being a leader or a model citizen. If I don't know why I'm supposed to be doing something, I will not do it. Also, if my plans are in some way inconsistent with what's deemed "right", oh well. I'm not terribly interested in social functions or community or anything that has to do with maintaining the status quo. I am glad, however, there are people who do care about these things as it saves me the trouble of having to muddle through unnecessary chaos.

 

[IEE623]

that's the reason why i don't like MBTI. it's too generalization and based too much on observation which implies error

 

[Kalach]

Is there a way to answer them wrong? I'm not sure how I would answer them right.

The function test comes with a "curve" number too, right? Something between -10 and 10, I think. As I recall, the closer to 0 that number, the more closely your test answers reflect the test designer's understanding of function use. As I understand it, the test questions deliberately reference simple and complex usages of the same function in different questions, so it's possible to, for example, say yes to complex uses and no to simple uses, suggesting a misunderstanding of the function. That's how you get "wrong" answers.

But... assuming a good curve, then IEE623 has a point: your results say ESTJ (with Ti in the mix because Te's so good and you're working in a field that requires you to focus on detailed derivation.)

But back to the F question...

Fi should only take less than a fraction of a second to process. Especially when there is an instantaneously strong dislike of something, that is processed not through the mind but through the adrenaline glands...

Remember though, this is for EXTJs.

ENTJs in particular can find answers to the problems in front of them well before they've given any thought to what they feel about the problem. Fi's a thin, reedy voice that has to somehow be listened to in the face of a perfectly workable plan that's ready to go. Not counting the personal cost, indeed actively ignoring personal distaste, can get to be a habit.

 

[Fluffywolf]

that's the reason why i don't like MBTI. it's too generalization and based too much on observation which implies error

It's a tool to help point in the right direction, but not a means to an end. You can like it without generalising about it.

 

[Halla74]

As I have delved further into understanding myself, and my implementation of my MBTI type (ESTP) I have learned quite a few things.

It was easy to confirm my strengths; it is not so easy to admit I have weaknesses, or to accurately understand them sufficiently in order to formulate a plan for developing them and hence improve myself.

The first shortcoming of being an ESTP that I am going to address is being totally at a loss in trusting my feelings. I can make complicated decisions while thinking on my feet at any moment; I have great faith in my ability to think and choose the best course of action for the task at hand. When it comes to feelings though, I am somewhat paralyzed. If I have to make a decision as to how I feel, I most always end up thinking about it for weeks and still am not able to select a course of action with any confidence. It is almost embarassing, but that's how my brain works for now.

So, I'm trying to work on that right now. It's alot of fun. <NOT>

 

[juggernaut]

The function test comes with a "curve" number too, right? Something between -10 and 10, I think. As I recall, the closer to 0 that number, the more closely your test answers reflect the test designer's understanding of function use. As I understand it, the test questions deliberately reference simple and complex usages of the same function in different questions, so it's possible to, for example, say yes to complex uses and no to simple uses, suggesting a misunderstanding of the function. That's how you get "wrong" answers.

But... assuming a good curve, then IEE623 has a point: your results say ESTJ (with Ti in the mix because Te's so good and you're working in a field that requires you to focus on detailed derivation.)

But back to the F question...



Remember though, this is for EXTJs.

ENTJs in particular can find answers to the problems in front of them well before they've given any thought to what they feel about the problem. Fi's a thin, reedy voice that has to somehow be listened to in the face of a perfectly workable plan that's ready to go. Not counting the personal cost, indeed actively ignoring personal distaste, can get to be a habit.

Regarding the test, that makes sense. Especially the bit about the scores near zero. I just copied and pasted the result page so I don't remember the specific numbers unfortunately.

I suppose it's possible that I could be an ESTJ based on the description IEE623 sent me (thank you, thank you btw), but I really feel like it would be a stretch. I had a really hard time even imagining myself behaving in the ways described, though it does look like a lovely personality type based on the description and I certainly would benefit from taking up some of those strategies.

That second bolded part sounds a bit more like me. I look at something and just know it isn't going to fly, or there's a way to make it fly, and then reverse engineer in an explanation for those who want a justification. So, now the question is how to get the voice to make itself heard...

For what it's worth socionics has me pegged as LII with LIE as a second possibility.

 

[BlackCat]

You're a weird ENTJ. How about that?

 

[juggernaut]

You're a weird ENTJ. How about that?

That's a given!

Anyway I went back and redid the cognitive processes test and the Ti came out one bar ahead of Te this time. Also Se and Ni switched places, but they were both really bad (one bar and no bars). What does this mean? Probably that Kalach is correct. There is something about the wording in those two sections on that particular test that makes me feel a little pukey. Does pukey count as an expression of F-ness, or an aversion to it?

Anyone know of a better test? I'm still fairly heartless but perhaps I could work on fixing the identity crisis and go from there.

 

[BlackCat]

Cognitive processes tests aren't all THAT great. Honestly, they're just for fun imo.

Have you read descriptions of Ni? Can you relate to them?

 

[juggernaut]

Honestly, not so much. But it might be the descriptions. They strike me as so, I dunno, hokey or something. I must have a little Ni in there somewhere or I probably wouldn't be asking about cultivating my F...it wouldn't occur to me. I can imagine a pretty miserable future for myself if I don't work on it a little. (I'll end up being that wretched old lady who chases kids off her lawn and keeps their balls when they fly into the yard). I can see little pictures of my own life a couple years out all the time, but if I'm honest with myself, that's really an inductive process. I know myself pretty well so it's not hard to anticipate what the short-term future will be.

That other Ni stuff ...not so much though. Even thinking about the description makes me a little irritable.

 

[Kalach]

Where's the sig pic from?

Ah whatever. You say ENTJ and you like it, so you're ENTJ until further notice.

At which point I realise I'm INTJ and giving advice on developing feeling.


Really, the big thing I notice about ENTJs I've known is they're so on the move. They haven't been planners like me. They haven't often waited on strategy. For them, to discover a solution is to implement a solution.

I don't know if this is true, but it looks a little like ENTJs do just because they can do. To be themselves, they need to be doing. So the question "Do I find it valuable to do this?" kinda already always has a default answer of "You betcha, I'm me, and I do!"

So, just looking at the ENTJs I know, I think the big thing for them is making choices about where and when to work. And it's a tough choice because working is what they do, and choosing not to work on something, anything, is like negating themselves.

But it isn't really. If they've chosen this project over that project based on a feeling of right and wrong, then their work becomes that much more substantial. It becomes their body of work. It's the thing they create.

So, best and only advice I have is, make some time for the outside consultant, Fi. A moment or so to let the reactions and images come into your head when some commitment is about to be made. Over time I'm guessing there'll start being a pattern. You'll get to know more about your personal reactions to what you do and how you do it.

Any other feely activity isn't likely to make the efficiency cut for an ENTJ. So if you want to cultivate the F, make it about something real. Take a moment to steer your own choices about work.

 

[juggernaut]

Where's the sig pic from?

Ah whatever. You say ENTJ and you like it, so you're ENTJ until further notice.

At which point I realise I'm INTJ and giving advice on developing feeling.


Really, the big thing I notice about ENTJs I've known is they're so on the move. They haven't been planners like me. They haven't often waited on strategy. For them, to discover a solution is to implement a solution.

I don't know if this is true, but it looks a little like ENTJs do just because they can do. To be themselves, they need to be doing. So the question "Do I find it valuable to do this?" kinda already always has a default answer of "You betcha, I'm me, and I do!"

So, just looking at the ENTJs I know, I think the big thing for them is making choices about where and when to work. And it's a tough choice because working is what they do, and choosing not to work on something, anything, is like negating themselves.

But it isn't really. If they've chosen this project over that project based on a feeling of right and wrong, then their work becomes that much more substantial. It becomes their body of work. It's the thing they create.

So, best and only advice I have is, make some time for the outside consultant, Fi. A moment or so to let the reactions and images come into your head when some commitment is about to be made. Over time I'm guessing there'll start being a pattern. You'll get to know more about your personal reactions to what you do and how you do it.

Any other feely activity isn't likely to make the efficiency cut for an ENTJ. So if you want to cultivate the F, make it about something real. Take a moment to steer your own choices about work.

I like these suggestions, and I suspect I might be able to put them to work. I don't think I could do it with people at this point and that makes me a little sad, but perhaps I can work up to it. I just find the emotional lives of people, on the whole, utterly alien. I do not understand gut-driven arguments or life choices at all. I know I should try to a bit more, just because it's the way of the world and I make things harder on myself by remaining out to lunch. Might be nice to really fall in love some day too...

Honestly, I like the INTJ description a bit more for myself... but I am, admittedly, a doer. If I don't have a project or a goal I'm working toward, I do start to feel like I'm flailing aimlessly.

The signature is from MyPersonality.info - Personality Types and Multiple Intelligences Tests & Information . They have me pegged as a weird ENTJ too. Perhaps my N is coming up wobbly because of the Ni deficiency?