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[MBTI General] People, in general, are bad

whats the general nature of people...NT perspective

  • people are all good, they just have some bad habits and tendencies

    Votes: 22 57.9%
  • people have bad intentions to begin with. they wont be nice unless its rewarded

    Votes: 16 42.1%

  • Total voters
    38

thisGuy

New member
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,187
MBTI Type
entp
answer...reasoning is appreceated

ummm ya...that was supposed to say NF perspective...my bad
 
G

garbage

Guest
this is going to be entertaining :popc1:

voted "good" and will supply a "reasoning" later
 

prplchknz

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
34,397
MBTI Type
yupp
good and bad are too broad of a term yet too confining at the same time so I don't think people in general are good or bad their's to many variables to a person to say in general what they are. Plus if you divide people up just to good and bad, but nothing in the middle then I don't know it's not worth it imo. Everyone I know has good and bad traits about them I don't like everything about my friends nor do i hate everything about the people I can't stand. Just aspects of them. I can't say everyone is either good or bad, but as far as I can tell majority of them would not kill a dog that wouldn't stop barking or a baby that won't stop crying.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,361
this topic again.

people have some "bad" intentions, to begin with. they will improve them, get rid of them, replace them, if it that is rewarded. and there are more variants of rewards, than just those that have a exclusively-selfish value. and that works precisely because people are never ONLY selfish, to begin with. and yeah, in this sentence, "bad" is actually a purely relative value.
 

Rachelinpa

New member
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
878
MBTI Type
ENFP
people have bad intentions to begin with. they wont be nice unless its rewarded

Without getting to a big argument about defining good and bad (which I think is relative anyhow)... I think people are naturally inclined to be selfish or "bad." Even what most people consider "selfless" is selfish in itself -- for example, you share your beer with your roommate to be nice not expecting anything in return... yet, the sharing of the beer makes YOU happy (you may even do it as an act of friendship to earn his company in return -- of course I, ENFP, would NEVER do this...). Selfish regardless of how much thought went into it. This is obviously a more cynical view, but I think it holds.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
Nonsense.

There is no "good" or "bad". Only information, and what we choose to do with it.
 

Anonymous

Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
605
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
My perspective is that people are selfish to begin with. Greedy, highly individualistic, thoughtless, etc. Like children, essentially. Through growth and maturation, that can be overcome, though.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,361
yet, the sharing of the beer makes YOU happy

thats true, in the sense that there always is a self, but all the point of the word selfishness is that of defining what "self" is. that is to say, selfishness is not defined as "something that happens for a causal cause", because that is always the case for anything, even for matter which is not commonly described as selfish. the word selfishness really referrers to the narrow self of a single perspective, that is even less that a single person, cause we know, we hurt our-selves for selfishness all the time.

if you are happy for a tactical reason though, you are not truly happy, but if you are truly happy because you enjoy common happiness, than happiness itself rules both you and the mate, so happiness it self becomes the common self, the broader self, even the nondual self.

and its not defined as non dual, because of a metaphysical assumption about an energetic link between two people, and not because of the assumption of a direct causal link, ie one happiness triggers the other happiness, it is defined like that, because of how happiness it self works, generally or abstractly. it just works TM.

cause that is human nature. so the selflessness of joined happiness is the ultimate product of the function of every single happiness. happiness strives to nonduality, because that way, it is just bigger. its only happiness, if you share it. thats the programming of heartfelt happiness.

its irrelevant who of two people smiled first, because what was actually first, was human nature, the heart, which programmed them, to find, that joined smiling is more happy than smiling alone. so that is the actual causality, that embraces the striving for nonduality everywhere in the relative world, especially in human nature. its hunting you down, and then it kills you.


:run::bananallama:
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
MBTI Type
YMCA
People start good, but have different things that drive them. One thing I've noticed from MBTi is most problems between types are differences in perspective, rather than conflicts. All seem to have the goal of improving things, they just have a different idea of perfection. It can be logical perfection; perfection of order, consistency; perfection of love and connection, perfection of freedom, perfection of interaction, perfecting the right to be imperfect :), etc.

Given different reasons and pressures the best options according to people, are sometimes damaging or horrific. Some people blame it on psychological disorders, sometimes it is just too much pressure and suddenly something like murder moves to the top of the best options list. The greatest of good and the worst of evil are in all of us. Given the right situation, everyone can snap.

I don't like the words "good" and "evil" either, but my point is the acts they describe are in all of us, not just the few who end up committing them. We work to move ourselves into a position where we can deal with situations well enough to avoid ever committing these crimes, but sometimes people's drive to it becomes inevitable. This isn't talking in terms of having empathy or not, people normally don't commit crimes impartially. They know how horrific it is, what they are doing, they just see it as a must for survival, and don't see the other path. It is the return of those primal instincts. There are the few psychopaths who do it for fun or sport, but most murders have motives. Even Hitler, Mao etc. had motives to improve something (though being naive, destructive and delusional ones).
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,361
People start good,

i dont have the impression that i started good. but last year i was laughing uninterruptedly for at least 5 minutes once, for no good reason, this year it happened again, without any reason (hard to tell), so there is hope ....
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
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Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
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YMCA
:). Yeh, probably neither good or evil. I just meant good in the sense of not evil, rather than really good. I still think we have positive motives in general. Or at least the will to be constructive and improve things, rather than destructive.
 

Kyrielle

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Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,294
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INFJ
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4w5
People are neither inherently good nor inherently bad, they are people. That is the amazing thing about people...they can go from one end of the spectrum to the other. Is there a good and bad? From an individual's perspective, yes, to some degree there is a defined element of "good" and "bad" or..."beneficial" and "non-beneficial" to the self. Society's perception of "good" and "bad" stems from a collaborative agreement on similar subjective principles that would cause productivity or disorder in that society.

But it is a foolish thing to assume someone is good or bad. Even a psychopath is not necessarily bad. Harmful to society? Yes. Bad on a basic and inherent level? No.
 

kiddykat

movin melodies
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
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MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4, 7
Nanook, totally agreed. I think it is important to choose our philosophies wisely. it's about perception?
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,361
not sure if you are asking me something? well, it certainly is not about believes. it is about nature, which structurally creates and supports more and more perspectives in a somewhat "regular" way (ie not chaotic), so yeah, perception nails it somewhat down. the eastern wisdom traditions depend on nothing but the experience that one has from inside the human brain, so there is no believe in that at all, which also means, that we cant just choose the proper perception/perspective, but we can work towards or against structural (perspectival) growth. and explanation of why it works is technically irrelevant. and descriptive interpretation of how it works is self contained in the growth. but believe in such explanations helps to motivate us on the way. or any sneak preview. like closely looking at how it actually feels to be happy or to laugh.
 

Azseroffs

New member
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Feb 23, 2009
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417
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ENTj
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5w4
People, in general, are selfish, not bad.

People, in their entirety, are selfish. People do apparently selfless things because it makes them feel better about themselves, so technically it is for their own benefit. How "good" or "bad" someone is depends on how much they relate to others and how inclined they are to act on that relation. In other words, people are as good or bad as their conscience.

edit:
people have bad intentions to begin with. they wont be nice unless its rewarded

Without getting to a big argument about defining good and bad (which I think is relative anyhow)... I think people are naturally inclined to be selfish or "bad." Even what most people consider "selfless" is selfish in itself -- for example, you share your beer with your roommate to be nice not expecting anything in return... yet, the sharing of the beer makes YOU happy (you may even do it as an act of friendship to earn his company in return -- of course I, ENFP, would NEVER do this...). Selfish regardless of how much thought went into it. This is obviously a more cynical view, but I think it holds.

I read this after the post. That's basically what I was trying to say. :D
I wouldn't say selfishness is necessarily bad though. By definition, it is good from the self's point of view. Like everyone has been saying, good and bad are relative.
Well, unless you believe in god. Then your god defines good and bad, which would usually(depending on religion) mean that everyone is bad and will only do nice things if rewarded.
 
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