[ENFP] Are NFs overly non offensive ?

[ColonelGadaafi]

I've said this before but I think sugar coating things and being "non offensive" is actually more offensive in the long run

Yes, they tend to this and it is . I've noticed this with my INFP friend. Rather then being blunt and direct about their opinion in a argument about the proposed point, they will dance around it in limbo and then smother it with choclate.

When challenged out on their beliefs and values, even when presented a more reasonable and factual argument that defeats their's, they will retreat into their castle of subjective values which they hold as the highest and most reasonable echelions of life, no matter how irrational they may be.

Truly NFP's believe themselves to be the knights in shining armor, whose ideals are victorious nomatter how superior the rational dragon is.

 

[sade]

I'm bound to defend my opinion, but not press it; all I need is for the other person to back off if they are being on the offensive side. Normally attacking against someone elses beliefs doesn't cross my mind, unless I'm questioning a point that came up in the conversation. I've tried to keep in mind the approach to question the whole value/belief systems of the person that I'm talking to, but I forget to do it. It just doesn't come to mind.
I will get offensive if you piss me off though..

NFs can be really offensive sometimes.

Erm.. I've managed to offend people mostly when I'm not meaning to do so.

 

[CrystalViolet]

Yes, they tend to this and it is . I've noticed this with my INFP friend. Rather then being blunt and direct about their opinion in a argument about the proposed point, they will dance around it in limbo and then smother it with choclate.

When challenged out on their beliefs and values, even when presented a more reasonable and factual argument that defeats their's, they will retreat into their castle of subjective values which they hold as the highest and most reasonable echelions of life, now matter how irrational they may be.

Truly NFP's believe themselves to be the knights in shining armor, whose ideals are victorious nomatter how superior the rational the dragon is.

Na, it's because we're right.
Seriously, though, that isn't the way to change a deeply held belief. In some respects, you actually reinforce them, by doing that. It has to be done gently, and with kindness. Do it with force and of course our defenses go up.

 

[BlackCat]

I prefer to gently tell people my opinions and the truth. As Luke put it...

I've said this before but I think sugar coating things and being "non offensive" is actually more offensive in the long run

These are my thoughts exactly. They will get the truth one way or another.

When challenged out on their beliefs and values, even when presented a more reasonable and factual argument that defeats their's, they will retreat into their castle of subjective values which they hold as the highest and most reasonable echelions of life, now matter how irrational they may be.

I am guilty of this, but in general I am always trying to refine my values to conform to reality. I don't want to be irrational. If I see something I believe in as irrational I'll fix it.

 

[garbage]

I've said this before but I think sugar coating things and being "non offensive" is actually more offensive in the long run

To me, it's all a matter of speaking the other person's language--not what they want to hear, but what you want to say in a way that they can understand and process it. If they haven't received your message, you haven't communicated effectively.

To that end, there's a way to be tactful and to speak to someone on a personal level that's typically more rewarding, productive, and constructive than speaking in an overly direct manner.

Being patronizing, refusing to tell the truth, or sugarcoating responses, however, is offensive.

When challenged out on their beliefs and values, even when presented a more reasonable and factual argument that defeats their's, they will retreat into their castle of subjective values which they hold as the highest and most reasonable echelions of life, no matter how irrational they may be.

Truly NFP's believe themselves to be the knights in shining armor, whose ideals are victorious nomatter how superior the rational the dragon is.

As long as they don't impose their subjective values on other people, I don't see a problem.

Often, values and priorities get challenged when they don't need to be, or even when they can't be. However, know that we can rethink our values in the face of new information, after all.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

The point is that they will focus on defending their beliefs and they will not start a counter attack on your belief system unless you are really pushing it.
In some cases you will hear a rant or an insult but there will probably be no calm and calculated(really calculated) ofensive.

NFs are also quite unlikey to attack the other persons belief system.

Do you feel uncomfortable doing that or you are afraid that you will be depressed if you do that? Or you are afraid of destroying a friendship (or whatever)?

I'm not certain your statement is typically true of NFs, but it could be. Speaking only for myself, I am slow to form opinions. If I have a strong opinion on something it is because I have looked into it thoroughly. I haven't typically done this with someone else's belief system. I'm not afraid of being depressed, but possibly of destroying the relationship. I'm afraid of introducing too much emotion into a situation. It doesn't entirely matter what the personality type, when anger or pride takes over, reason checks out at least for the time being.

I am "overly non-offensive" if there is such a thing. Getting people upset clouds judgment and can escalate into something out of control. When someone is really upset they can hear all kinds of things I never said and then what? Zero communication. I prefer efficient interactions with people whether discussing important issues or just having dinner together. A few ways this is achieved is by not mirroring other people's negative emotions if it means the situation will escalate out of control and the raw emotion will take over. If someone is angry, insist on being calm and more often than not, you can get them to mirror the calmer stance. I understand what emotions do to thought and perspective and so I am slow to introduce or encourage this with people and try to make the interaction understated if possible. I try to simplify interactions with people and not dig into everything that can complicate matters. Belief systems can be filled with trigger points that activate all kinds of intense emotion and unexpected reactions in others regardless of type.

I've also found that people tend to think and believe whatever makes them feel secure and strong even when there is evidence to the contrary. There are complex reasons for this. I see no reason to get bent out of shape with an inability to accept this about people. If I can't get my head around how the person is viewing things in order to hold what appears to be an erroneous belief, then I cannot be most effective in presenting a counter argument.

Maybe the simplest way to put all this is to say whenever there is conflict, I begin by asking myself "What will be accomplished by engaging in conflict with this person in this instance?" If I don't have a good answer, I try to leave it alone.

 

[ajblaise]

The point is that they will focus on defending their beliefs and they will not start a counter attack on your belief system unless you are really pushing it.
In some cases you will hear a rant or an insult but there will probably be no calm and calculated(really calculated) ofensive.

It's only overly non offensive if forming an offensive on your viewpoints would have been a good use of their time.

 

[Stanton Moore]

That is just something I have noticed.
I know that NFs are very wide group so I am generalizing since they are NFs that are not like this.




If you attack NFs on their beliefs you will probably provoke a response.
The NFs that is attacked will do anything in its power to prove that the belief system is correct/valid.
However if you do that all the time they will learn how to ignore you.


But that is not the point.

The point is that they will focus on defending their beliefs and they will not start a counter attack on your belief system unless you are really pushing it.
In some cases you will hear a rant or an insult but there will probably be no calm and calculated(really calculated) ofensive.



NFs are also quite unlikey to attack the other persons belief system.

Do you feel uncomfortable doing that or you are afraid that you will be depressed if you do that? Or you are afraid of destroying a friendship (or whatever)?

There is no point in causing an argument for it's own sake.
I do this because it's tiring to argue, and I don't want to expend my energy explaining myself. I'm certainly not afraid of expressing my opinion; I just don't seek out situations for that purose. I can argue quite well, actually, and I can cut too, but only if it's deserved.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Erm.. I've managed to offend people mostly when I'm not meaning to do so.

I offend people a lot unintentionally too. I think it's the Te or something. I've been told I can seem abrasive, but I have a feeling this is when I am being defensive. Or it's people misreading my shyness & introversion as being stand-offish and rude. I also am less inclined to observe certain social niceties that seem phony to me.

To me, it's all a matter of speaking the other person's language--not what they want to hear, but what you want to say in a way that they can understand and process it. If they haven't received your message, you haven't communicated effectively.

To that end, there's a way to be tactful and to speak to someone on a personal level that's typically more rewarding, productive, and constructive than speaking in an overly direct manner.

Often, values and priorities get challenged when they don't need to be, or even when they can't be. However, know that we can rethink our values in the face of new information, after all.

Definitely agree with this.

NFPs may not be refusing to accept supposed "hard logic", but the person trying to make a point may not realize they haven't made it as clearly as they imagine they have. I notice people who love to argue and consider themselves "rational" are often blind to the big picture. They get stuck on "facts" and don't take into account human emotions and perspectives. Everything isn't black and white, and I think NFPs see that.
When we encounter these people, who feel they've successfully torn down our beliefs, we're probably internally rolling our eyes because we see their view as very limited, and we've lost all interest in explaining ourselves to someone who has blinders on.

NFPs can argue a point quite well, because as I brought out in my other post, we often use persuasion to appeal to people. It's a lot more subtle & effective because no one feels they are being attacked.

Like nebbykoo says, expending that energy to argue our viewpoint is often not worth it. Why argue with someone who is dead set in their ways? What do you accomplish?

 

[iwakar]

NFs; natural proponents of "live and let live."

INFJs: Fe-but I think since it is auxilliary and supports a dmoniant introverted function, it would fight defend it's own values but be unlikely to go on the offensive aganist yours. It will withdraw and observe instead.

Passionate as I am about my ideals, I make a constant exercise of tolerance and acceptance because I concede the general futility of passionate expositions of my personal belief system against that of others.

Of all the NFs however, I suspect we are the most likely to pause, withdraw, watch and learn you if you insist on providing us with enough material; and yet patiently disregard you at the same time.

Unless we're seriously provoked,
in which case, we'll cut you where it counts.

 

[OregonENFP]

NFs are also quite unlikey to attack the other persons belief system.

Do you feel uncomfortable doing that or you are afraid that you will be depressed if you do that? Or you are afraid of destroying a friendship (or whatever)?

I would not attack another person's belief system as I find it fundamentally wrong to do so unless they are someone very close to me. Trying to influence them I would do but not so much that it would sound offensive.

 

[heart]

If you're breathing, someone, somewhere is offended.

 

[Virtual ghost]

When I say belief system I also mean values.


I don't have problems with idea of questioning others position when I notice inconsistency or deficit of logic. Which is in many cases.




However I am too detached to be a real antagonist.

 

[BerberElla]

I've said this before but I think sugar coating things and being "non offensive" is actually more offensive in the long run

I think the key is personalising your tactics when dealing with individual people.

With my sensitive friends I take care that what I am saying is said in a way I know will work for them best, whereas with my estp sister it feels GOOD to be able to just be straight up and say it like it is without beating around the bush.

Honestly I am only careful in what I say when dealing with people who I know already will take it in a bad way. It's necessary and it's called being tactful, something everyone needs a little bit of.

 

[Synapse]

Tries to be fair, if that entails being diplomatic rather than abrasive then that'll work depending on the situation. I prefer to be tactful. I do not like to step on peoples toes on purpose to get my point across or need to. This may happen unintentionally, however when the reaction happens it is usually about the other person than something I did to upset, although I'll still try to tone it down even when I don't have to.

When you tell it like it is all the time, it is usually too confronting, offensive or taken like an attack. And puts the other person into instant defense and trust goes. The same applies if you have a tendency to sugar coat all the time because then you do not know the facts and wonder is it okay or worse, its like a shiney balloon that is iching to burst someday.

I think it is better to take each person on their history and what they are able or capable to deal with or hear rather than attacking to get your views across, its discretion.

 

[mlittrell]

no.

if someone attacks my belief system then i do not carry on a conversation with them. there is no point. if they are not open enough to consider my belief system, then they can screw themselves. if they do consider it and they make valid points against it, im comfortable enough with myself to question my beliefs and change them if need be. i like having discussions, not necessarily debates. i think debating is stupid if the whole point isn't to come to some sort of universal truth or a truth that both parties can accept, but is to just prove the other person wrong.

 

[Unique]

I think the key is personalising your tactics when dealing with individual people.

With my sensitive friends I take care that what I am saying is said in a way I know will work for them best, whereas with my estp sister it feels GOOD to be able to just be straight up and say it like it is without beating around the bush.

Honestly I am only careful in what I say when dealing with people who I know already will take it in a bad way. It's necessary and it's called being tactful, something everyone needs a little bit of.

I prefer to gently tell people my opinions and the truth. As Luke put it...

It's more like how blackcat put it, theres a difference between telling someone in a sensitive way and "sugar coating" it

In a way they are essentially BSing you

Example Question: "Have I gained weight?"

Sensitive answer: Why do you ask? Do you think you need to? Are you still doing your exercise and diet that you were telling me about?

Find out WHY they asked first, its actually important... if they ask for your opinion still after asking them that (which I doubt because I bet they were just looking for support) then tell them the truth and it will go down a whole lot better after they know you've talked about an actual solution to loosing their weight rather than a blunt... yeah you're fat and all hope is gone.

Blunt answer: honestly, you could loose some kgs... heres how... and what works for me... blah blah blah

Sugar Coating answer: Don't worry you're beautiful (notice how being pretty has nothing to do with the original question)

After they say that they follow up with a distracting questing such as "btw are we still going to that party tonight?"

 

[BerberElla]

It's more like how blackcat put it, theres a difference between telling someone in a sensitive way and "sugar coating" it

In a way they are essentially BSing you

Example Question: "Have I gained weight?"

Sensitive answer: Why do you ask? Do you think you need to? Are you still doing your exercise and diet that you were telling me about?

Find out WHY they asked first, its actually important... if they ask for your opinion still after asking them that (which I doubt because I bet they were just looking for support) then tell them the truth and it will go down a whole lot better after they know you've talked about an actual solution to loosing their weight rather than a blunt... yeah you're fat and all hope is gone.

Blunt answer: honestly, you could loose some kgs... heres how... and what works for me... blah blah blah

Sugar Coating answer: Don't worry you're beautiful (notice how being pretty has nothing to do with the original question)

After they say that they follow up with a distracting questing such as "btw are we still going to that party tonight?"

Ah, I thought sugar coating was being sensitive, not an outright liar lol I would and have told my friends the truth in a gentle way when they have asked about weight since I can't stand people lying to me over the same thing.

 

[Unique]

Ah, I thought sugar coating was being sensitive, not an outright liar lol I would and have told my friends the truth in a gentle way when they have asked about weight since I can't stand people lying to me over the same thing.

lol yeh, they don't see it as lying though and I guess technically it isn't... I'm not really good at thinking of examples of it but its just making things seem better than they actually are for the sake of it... very sad !

 

[garbage]

In a way they are essentially BSing you

Agree

But in some cases, such as...

Example Question: "Have I gained weight?"

...they might really be asking a different question, such as.. oh, "Do you still find me attractive?" But then they might really be asking the question you've posed.

It really takes knowing what the other person is trying to communicate to you in order to form an appropriate response.