• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] A question for INFXs

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mycroft

The elder Holmes
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,068
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
On several occasions I've seen INFXs refer, with rue, to some people as being "too far gone". I'm curious: what, in your minds, makes a person "too far gone"?
 

Sahara

New member
Joined
Jul 14, 2007
Messages
927
MBTI Type
INFP
The people I consider too far gone are the ones who just won't take really really good advice that I know 100% is true, so stubborn and pig headed they are too far gone to reach.

In all situations that is what is at the core of it for me, someone is too far gone when it no longer serves a purpose to even try.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Well, I would say that a person is too far gone when they become too entrenched in a particular perspective, and cannot be reasoned with to see another, especially if it's on an issue where they have a very unusual or harmful perspective.
 

runvardh

にゃん
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
8,541
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
like the other two said, all efforts to reach are pointless. it affects us NFs more than NTs usually hence a slight mourning air to the meaning.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I get the feeling that NF's approach it on more of a moral/self-determination angle than NT's do.

NT = The right argument was not being used, but if they change their logic, there is still hope to reach an understanding... or maybe they'll grow into it. It's not necessarily a personal value commitment to be close-minded, they might still be convinced if the right language or approach is used.

NF = The person's internal motivations are wrong and they are refusing to change into a better person -- they've made a commitment to stall their own growth. It's a commitment to selfishness. (Thus, they're "too far gone" to ever reach the self-awareness and openness needed to release their stubbornness and embrace the new path.)
 

JivinJeffJones

New member
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
3,702
MBTI Type
INFP
What Jenn said. Even if you could prove your point beyond all doubt, they still would not change their views because they don't wan to change their views. Usually personal identity issues and vested interests are tied up here. I never really consider young people to be too far gone, no matter how stubborn they are.
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
I consider only psychopaths to be too far gone. There can be old or young pyshcopaths. There can be socialized psychopaths who learn to work their power games within the limits of the rules and laws of their enviroment.

That said, I have come to the conclusion that people change their ways only in their own time. We have very little infuence over the actions of others. If they reach out for help, we can assist, but we also have to keep in mind that the person may not have yet reached that position of wanting to change or our way of trying to help them may not be what they need.

People also need to recognize when someone is a drama junkie and really is thriving off the drama their behavior creates and merely wants others to vampire off of in that lifestyle. It would just be an endless drain to continue to try and help this person. Maybe they are not totally lost and will someday change their destructive ways, but none of us are required to sacrifice ourselves while they work all of this out.


I consider very toxic the type of person who NEEDS to help others for ego glorification and to convince themselves of how utterly good a person they themselves are.
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
I consider only psychopaths to be too far gone. There can be old or young pyshcopaths. There can be socialized psychopaths who learn to work their power games within the limits of the rules and laws of their enviroment.
Yup.

That said, I have come to the conclusion that people change their ways only in their own time. We have very little infuence over the actions of others. If they reach out for help, we can assist, but we also have to keep in mind that the person may not have yet reached that position of wanting to change or our way of trying to help them may not be what they need.
Yup.

I consider very toxic the type of person who NEEDS to help others for ego glorification and to convince themselves of how utterly good a person they themselves are.
Yup.

Personally, I don't do a lot to try to help people change anymore. I don't consider it my place. I will listen and give feedback unless it is too much of a drain and I will try to help out if it is a reasonable request or it is a rare, short-term crisis, but that is about as far as I will go. I will also not stay around to watch someone self-destruct. It's too painful.

Once I have determined that the return on my investment is going to be a net zero if I'm lucky, I consider the person "Too far gone."
 

maidenhair

New member
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
11
MBTI Type
INFP
I identify people as lost causes when:

1. They ask for but ignore advice. I'm usually the person others turn to for counsel and have experienced this on numerous occasions. The person unleashes their drama and I analyse it to determine what behaviour has been problematic and how it can be remedied. I prescribe a course of action I believe is feasible based on the current circumstances. The person engages in a seemingly earnest display of gratitude, then promptly erases all advice from memory. I've come to the conclusion that such people are looking only for a sympathetic ear and have no intention of changing their behaviour(s). However, my desire to help people and believe in their ability to enact positive personal change has made me a sucker on many occasions. I have wised up in recent years, though it takes some time for me to brand them as too far gone.

2. They repeatedly make the same mistakes. In my experience, these mistakes are not serious in isolation, but are compounded by a sequence of other poor decisions. Many of the mistakes revolve around academic and vocational aspirations; clinging to a past relationship or refusing to acknowledge that a new, desired relationship will not happen are other mistakes I often see.

I find both instances are generally the result of excessive immaturity, self-centredness and/or irresponsibility, but delusion is probably a factor in some cases, too.
 

Eileen

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
2,179
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6?
I generally do not believe that people are ever "too far gone" for help or change. I do often believe, however, that a person can only change himself; he is not "too far gone" to do so, even if it is unlikely that he will.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
To me a person seems "too far gone" when there are certain aspects that are simply vacant - like an absence of empathy, perpetual lying, a sense of satisfaction when cruel to others, etc. The person for whom the destruction of others is their goal for no reason other than a distorted sense of personal pleasure, is "too far gone". Such people will never choose to be anything other than what they are.

And for those who have lived sheltered lives, there are actually people like i have described. More than you might guess.
 

GZA

Resident Snot-Nose
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,771
MBTI Type
infp
I kind of think that I have grown and developed a lot over the years, and the direction it has been in has been enlightening. For some people, perhaps this development of the soul has been different, has gone in a different direction, and that direction they have gone in has caused them to be arrogant and closed minded. If they have lived life too long beleiving in that way then I suppose they ar e"too far gone"... but I think if they at some point have an external event cause them to question it, they can change.

I perosnally never really say "too far gone" though.
 

JivinJeffJones

New member
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
3,702
MBTI Type
INFP
It should be noted though that, even when I consider someone to be "too far gone", I don't consider this to be much of a hindrance to friendship. I just accept that those are the parameters of the friendship. It doesn't especially frustrate or irritate me, though it never ceases to puzzle me. I'm not sure if INFJs can do the same though - the ones I know would rather walk away from a friendship they have emotionally invested in with someone who refuses to be improved (or cannot improve them) rather than watch them stubbornly make the same mistakes. True, I don't know all that many INFJs, but it seems to be a constant with them. I'm not sure why it would be.
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
For me it's the empathic thing. I can't bear to watch them suffer. I cannot stop the suffering. They can but will not, so I just have to be where I can't see it anymore.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
It should be noted though that, even when I consider someone to be "too far gone", I don't consider this to be much of a hindrance to friendship. I just accept that those are the parameters of the friendship. It doesn't especially frustrate or irritate me, though it never ceases to puzzle me. I'm not sure if INFJs can do the same though - the ones I know would rather walk away from a friendship they have emotionally invested in with someone who refuses to be improved (or cannot improve them) rather than watch them stubbornly make the same mistakes. True, I don't know all that many INFJs, but it seems to be a constant with them. I'm not sure why it would be.
I look for optimizing emotional systems. Who can benefit the most from my time and energy? Whom do i benefit from? I no longer dismiss people entirely unless they are a threat to my survival. When younger and less secure i was more apt to run away from people who hurt me. With maturity my choices are more reasoned and deliberate. I can handle enough different scenarios and types of people to be a little less self-invested in the outcomes. I'm less afraid, so i can rely more on reason.
 

faith

New member
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
408
MBTI Type
INFJ
The people I consider too far gone are the ones who just won't take really really good advice that I know 100% is true, so stubborn and pig headed they are too far gone to reach.

In all situations that is what is at the core of it for me, someone is too far gone when it no longer serves a purpose to even try.
Yep.

Well, I would say that a person is too far gone when they become too entrenched in a particular perspective, and cannot be reasoned with to see another, especially if it's on an issue where they have a very unusual or harmful perspective.
Yep.

NF = The person's internal motivations are wrong and they are refusing to change into a better person -- they've made a commitment to stall their own growth. It's a commitment to selfishness. (Thus, they're "too far gone" to ever reach the self-awareness and openness needed to release their stubbornness and embrace the new path.)
Very good.

What Jenn said. Even if you could prove your point beyond all doubt, they still would not change their views because they don't want to change their views.
Precisely.

I generally do not believe that people are ever "too far gone" for help or change. I do often believe, however, that a person can only change himself; he is not "too far gone" to do so, even if it is unlikely that he will.
I suppose "too far gone" applies to my ability to reach them given my current resources.

For me it's the empathic thing. I can't bear to watch them suffer. I cannot stop the suffering. They can but will not, so I just have to be where I can't see it anymore.
That's part of it too. I can't help them change, and they won't change themselves, so I have to stop actively caring whether or not they change. I have to stop letting their situation cause me worry or stress. They're "too far gone" for me to invest emotionally in. Too far gone for me to wade neck-deep into mud in order to try to coax them out. It's obvious they don't want to come out, or won't trust me to lead them out. I have to let go of the situation.
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
It should be noted though that, even when I consider someone to be "too far gone", I don't consider this to be much of a hindrance to friendship. I just accept that those are the parameters of the friendship. It doesn't especially frustrate or irritate me, though it never ceases to puzzle me. I'm not sure if INFJs can do the same though - the ones I know would rather walk away from a friendship they have emotionally invested in with someone who refuses to be improved (or cannot improve them) rather than watch them stubbornly make the same mistakes. True, I don't know all that many INFJs, but it seems to be a constant with them. I'm not sure why it would be.

I am INFP and I have little room in my life for those I truly consider beyond hope, like psychopaths and drama junkies. Life is too short and I just don't have the energy. It is not so much people who won't "improve" themselves, but people who are truly destructive to self or others. I don't want their destruction coming into my life. I won't waste time on toxic vampires either.
 

maidenhair

New member
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
11
MBTI Type
INFP
I make every attempt to stick it out as long as I can because I hate ending relationships when I have made extraordinary efforts to cultivate them. However, my sympathy only lasts so long. If someone is given opportunities to change and doesn't, I become frustrated. If the negative choices they've made start to impinge upon my quality of life, I step back, sometimes completely removing myself from the situation. I hate to be so concerned with self-preservation, but the emotional toll others' problems have taken on me in the past have made me more cautious when I recognize a potentially harmful situation. I usually feel guilty when I disassociate with someone; for me to sever ties, the guilt must be less than the personal cost I'd incur by continuing the relationship.
 

JivinJeffJones

New member
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
3,702
MBTI Type
INFP
I am INFP and I have little room in my life for those I truly consider beyond hope, like psychopaths and drama junkies. Life is too short and I just don't have the energy. It is not so much people who won't "improve" themselves, but people who are truly destructive to self or others. I don't want their destruction coming into my life. I won't waste time on toxic vampires either.

Fair enough, but that isn't what I was talking about. I'm not talking about someone who is using or abusing you, I'm talking about people who refuse (or seems unable) to take steps to avoid the things which are toxic in their own lives, and to make positive steps to become the sort of person they would like to be.

I make every attempt to stick it out as long as I can because I hate ending relationships when I have made extraordinary efforts to cultivate them. However, my sympathy only lasts so long. If someone is given opportunities to change and doesn't, I become frustrated. If the negative choices they've made start to impinge upon my quality of life, I step back, sometimes completely removing myself from the situation. I hate to be so concerned with self-preservation, but the emotional toll others' problems have taken on me in the past have made me more cautious when I recognize a potentially harmful situation. I usually feel guilty when I disassociate with someone; for me to sever ties, the guilt must be less than the personal cost I'd incur by continuing the relationship.

Hmm, I guess it's not just INFJs then.
 

Meursault

New member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
44
On several occasions I've seen INFXs refer, with rue, to some people as being "too far gone". I'm curious: what, in your minds, makes a person "too far gone"?

i'm 35 and i have never said that of anyone...perhaps it's a "J" thing...or maybe its because openly flawed people are the only ones I can stand anymore....


edit: i just read through this thread and there are so many self-righteous people on this site and intpc...i don't try to change people, i just accept them--if they aren't good for me, i say good bye, but that is about me, not them. if someone seems to be drowning i reach for them, and if they take my hand, i don't let go...i'm a pretty strong swimmer...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top