[ENFJ] Ask an ENFJ

[Cronkle]

:]]

One of my best friends is an INFP, I really admire her. Best of luck

 

[the state i am in]

what's the difference between male enfjs and male infjs? i want to know what dominant Fe is like. i think male enfj is one of the only types that might be even more awkward for masculine gender roles than male infj. especially! when unhealthy. do you consider yourself to have an "explosive" personality?

also, do you personally think billy corgan is an enfj?

ps i've read all tom robbins, some palahniuk, all kurt vonnegut, all tom wolfe's essay books (not his novels). bukowski makes me think of the red hot chili peppers song mellowship slinky in b major. oh, los angeles!

 

[Cronkle]

what's the difference between male enfjs and male infjs? i want to know what dominant Fe is like. i think male enfj is one of the only types that might be even more awkward for masculine gender roles than male infj. Especially! when unhealthy. do you consider yourself to have an "explosive" personality?

also, do you personally think billy corgan is an enfj?

ps i've read all tom robbins, some palahniuk, all kurt vonnegut, all tom wolfe's essay books (not his novels). bukowski makes me think of the red hot chili peppers song mellowship slinky in b major. oh, los angeles!

I don't know! I haven't met any male INFJs that I know of--I know being around people really makes me happy and if don't I start to get depressed. There's a certain energy I feel when everyone's happy and I'm out in the world.
I do play a strange role, masculine wise. My INFP friend said I had a "confident, yet gentle demeanor." I will be like, "That asshole. He needs a hug."The characteristic short, clipped speech of a man with the sort of feminine love-yness. I'm very sensitive, so I think I may tone down the emotional side of me around men to avoid being ridiculed.
Yes, I guess I'm very explosive; I'm very calm, but if it comes out I know exactly where to place the dagger, which crevice will cause maximum pain--what their weakpoint is. But I rarely need to! That only comes out when someone personally attacks me or something I stand for. For example, my fist starts to clench when people talk about childhood molestation or things like that.

I haven't ever Billy Corgan seen him in person or on video, I always thought he was mysterious and inward from magazine pictures.

I put an incident as a footnote so you don't have to read it if you don't want to[1]

P.S. I'm not good at answering open-ended questions, if you narrow your question's focus you'll get a much better answer from me.
[1]

My dad and I ordered the same meal at Boston Market. At the counter, I received a coupon that said buy one get one free for the same meal.

Me: Hey, dad, you should go back that meal you just bought is free with this coupon.
Dad: ok..

My dad talks to the guy and he says "we will accept the coupon--we always accept coupons."

We are about to take the food back and the guy says "oh wait--no, no, no; you have to come back and use that coupon the next time."

I say, "Oh--so you're going to waste our food and not honor our coupon?"
and the guy stammers, "Y-y-yes, we have to do our coupons this way."

That's obviously an appeal to emotion and not logic. Logically, I step back and realize that I could have been less abrupt, or even step back further and realize that it's their policy, but that's how it goes as an emotional person.

---
P.S. II Hurray for Belle & Sebastian

 

[Domino]

If you were romantically interested in someone a lot more reserved, private and shy, how would you show it?

You grab them, inform them that this is a hostile take-over and that the spankings start in 2 minutes, so prepare thyself!

Ha. No.

I instigated contact through tormenting him. Nothing bad. Just little anonymous notes left around for him to find, teasing him mercilessly. He enjoyed it. He was very very introverted, needed a little friendly coercion.

 

[SpottingTrains]

what importance has a coherent worldview to you, and what do you do or avoid to maintain or grow your worldview.

A coherent world view in my opinion is something that is of very delicate nature and it not something simply gained by chance or inspiration. I spend a good portion of my day reading a myriad of articles/blogs/whatever in order to improve my understanding of the world and each day I find a new piece that fits. I'm literally plagued with the idea that there is something I don't know that could radically shape my view of the world and my vice is information.

do you seek inspiration rather from people and situations (eg humor, satirical observations) or from more concrete sources like the internet, books about psychology, philosophy etc.

I take inspiration from anything that stands the test of what I hold ideal in my mind. I love the idea of gaining inspiration from situations and people but in practice I haven't found it to be as fulfilling. I find that reading an expert's blog post conveys so much more information and I can digest the information so much quicker.

Everything I do in life, I have been criticized for this by a good friend (though he finds it funny more than anything), I hold up to a set of ideals in my mind that I constantly judge things against.

When I watch a movie I ask myself if this movie will impart anything upon me. This can range from being life lessons to emotional knowledge or scientific. It doesn't matter, as long as I feel that I will gain something positive from my time spent. I apply this metric to any media- books probably the most. I read a lot but I only read books that I know will be well worth the time spent. On a more somber note I also tend to apply this to people as well.

why are you so shy or disinterested in exposing your current hold on ideas in a group discussion, unless you finally want to insert an appeal. yeah, you are a feeling type and therefore sensitive about having your position attacked by ignorants, you would not be able to defend your position spontaneously as conflict distracts you from depth of insight and you would have to fight your way out with shallow dialectic/rhetoric. but that is true for introverted feeling types and they cant be stopped by it.

1. More people = more to hurt with what we would say. I hate causing discord in any situation and I will try to avoid it unless I feel a certain person is already causing discord among the group then I won't hold back on what I believe / feel.


2. More people = more people to understand. Personally, I find it hard to be interested in a group conversation unless I have feelings for the topic or people involved.

You are very true about us chucking in our 2 cents at the end of a discussion, this simply boils down to the fact that we know where everyone stands and we don't feel threatened anymore by tossing in our view (or tossing in a view that fits with the current crowd- not a sign of a healthy enfj). I don't do this often as if I don't initially feel compelled by the conversation I will spend my time analyzing the people involved and less of what they are actually saying. Eg. Reactions and expressions. This isn't something I am cognizant of but something I have figured out after quite some time of personal inspection.

are you anywhere close to sanity?

Yes.

how can one develop an independent personality, when one is living his whole live in the field of remote-perception (how others see you)?

Trying to understand this one. Are you trying to ask how we can maintain our own independent personality while trying to conform to how we think other people want to view us?

I don't think this is a healthy for an ENFJ at all but I will admit that I have developed this trait in excess and I have done it without being aware at all. But to answer your question I feel that I haven't encountered any hurdles in developing my own individual personality. The bigger challenge is finding someone who can trust enough to share it with.

how can you ever allow yourself to face and publish negative traits, without glorifying them and demonstratively acting them out, to prove that they are either beyond your influence altogether, or totally in your control - both of which creates the illusion that you are not at fault. how or where can you hide from the accusing and demanding eyes of others, without hiding from yourself?

I think everyone attempts at a certain level to hide certain emotions they feel . I recently read Malcolm Gladwell's book 'Blink' and it divulges that people cannot fully control the emotions that register on their faces.

I don't know how to exactly answer this question. The best I can say is that I know I am flawed- everyone is. I accept this about me but that doesn't mean I don't try to find ways to make myself a better person. One of my biggest tells is when I see another person being belittled or what have you my face will look like I want to rip off your someones head and wave it around in effigy of joy. Again, I find this question hard to answer : /

 

[SpottingTrains]

If you were romantically interested in someone a lot more reserved, private and shy, how would you show it?

It really depends on the that person's personality. Personally, I like to joke around a lot so if I am saying a lot of stupid/funny things around you and having a good time it at least means I enjoy your company. If this is interposed with the 'dreaded ENFJ stare' that looks like we are trying examine your soul then I would say that there could very well be some feelings there

 

[Venom]

http://evan.redraccoondog.com/books

i really wish i had done something like that... i went through a phase in middle school, where i read every "classic" i could get my hands on. I wish I could remember how many/and or what books i actaully consumed (it gets old simply having to say, "there was a time when I read a lot")

 

[Cronkle]

:]

 

[Cronkle]

Hm, now that I have some fine ENFJs assembled here--I want to ask what they think of the trait of hastiness. (Which is what I think my worst habit is.) Does it categorize you?

If so, what do you do about it?

 

[SpottingTrains]

I don't think this is necessarily a trait of ENFJs but I can definitely relate. I absolutely hate spending more time than necessary on a certain task and look for ways to maximize my time so I can finish tasks faster. This isn't to say I don't enjoy the details- I do. I just wouldn't want to waste time on something that I feel was useless or didn't have a proportional payoff to the amount of time invested.

So in opinion you should just embrace it, you will find yourself fighting off boredom if you try to do it any other way. Just make sure your hastiness isn't leading to sub-par work.

 

[Cronkle]

What is your worst trait then? Or better, what is the worst trait you've noticed across all ENFJs?

P.S. 100% with you on "When I watch a movie I ask myself if this movie will impart anything upon me. This can range from being life lessons to emotional knowledge or scientific. It doesn't matter, as long as I feel that I will gain something positive from my time spent. I apply this metric to any media- books probably the most. I read a lot but I only read books that I know will be well worth the time spent. On a more somber note I also tend to apply this to people as well."

 

[SpottingTrains]

ENFJs overall are always typed as being manipulative , whether out intentions are good or bad. Personally, I find my lack of trust in people to be my worst trait (if that counts as one). I find it very hard to truly trust someone.

 

[Cronkle]

Hm, is there a positive word for manipulation? It has such unnecessary connotations. Manipulation implies to me that one of the parties is losing and one is gaining (parasitic in a sense) How is knowing how to make people happy and coming to mutual benefits manipulation?

 

[SpottingTrains]

Affecting someone else's freewill to meet a goal no matter how good or evil it may be is always looked down upon. Personally, I see it as grey area that must be navigated carefully How do the words 'gentle coercion' sound to you ?

 

[Cronkle]

Hahaha. Fair enough.

They do sound good, but I think us devious ENFJs would be better calling it gentle compelling towards what is good and right. (As defined by us kind souls!)

 

[ColonelGadaafi]

How do i annoy an ENFJ?.

 

[proteanmix]

Hm, now that I have some fine ENFJs assembled here--I want to ask what they think of the trait of hastiness. (Which is what I think my worst habit is.) Does it categorize you?

If so, what do you do about it?

I'm a pretty impulsive person in the sense that I move quickly to (sometimes too) action. If I see something needs to be done, I'm not one to wait to see how things turn out especially when it seems clear to me how things will turn out.

I'm doing something about it by not doing anything about it, lol. Just sitting and waiting and seeing rather than moving. But that depends on the situation.

Hm, is there a positive word for manipulation? It has such unnecessary connotations. Manipulation implies to me that one of the parties is losing and one is gaining (parasitic in a sense) How is knowing how to make people happy and coming to mutual benefits manipulation?

Yeah, I wish there was a less loaded term for manipulation. I feel like what's happening is more social engineering than manipulation. Drafting, creating, and implementing blueprints for relationships. In some ways relationships are like buildings and roads, they have to be planned and built and maintained. There's also the unpredictability that can't be accounted for so you also have to deal with that. I think when you start controlling too much for that unpredictability it becomes manipulation.

I have an ENFJ and INFJ coworkers and when we're talking about nudging people in certain directions or setting up certain events to happen in a certain way, it can be interpreted as manipulation but I doesn't feel like that. "If I do this then they'll respond in these possible ways, and then I'll respond in this way..." I can't help that my mind works that way and I don't feel bad about it although I realize the way it comes off, I don't talk about it to people I don't think would get it. Overall, it's no biggie and it's more or less applied thinking than something I'm doing constantly. Inferior Ti won't let me do that all the time!

I know people sense this about ENFJs (possibly NFJs or even FJs generally) and it's probably why manipulative gets so often associated with the personality type. I think people may prefer a bumbling fool who fell into whatever good fortunes they have rather than someone who actually thought it out. I can see why it might be frightening to think that someone thought something out about you before you even thought of it and is moving you down a path you don't know about. My reaction would depend on the persons motivations and if they're moving you to their benefit, mutual benefit, or your benefit.

But what do you do about it? When I say things like this I can't explain how much gut grinding I do to figure out what's my agenda, what's my motivation? I try to mitigate my propensity to do this by making myself as agenda-less as I'm consciously capable of being. I try to remove ME from the equation totally. Which can lead to a lot of rationalizations and justifications for behavior, because it wasn't done for me, it was done for someone else. There's the thought that if you lose yourself in there somewhere (at least for me) that your motivations are purer.

It's probably better to know what your stakes and investments are in situations, but that is a hazy area for me and I prefer not to go there. There is a lot of thinking about why I do what I do, but not very many answers. Bottom line is it's my belief that I do what I do to make people happier and more fulfilled. There's always dissonance between ideal you and real you and that's something I'm painfully aware of.

ENFJs overall are always typed as being manipulative , whether out intentions are good or bad. Personally, I find my lack of trust in people to be my worst trait (if that counts as one). I find it very hard to truly trust someone.

This may also be a cause of the distrust of people with ENFJs. If I'm doing this much thinking who's to say other people aren't, and what if their motivations are unscrupulous? It's a paranoia based fear because there's not much certainty about yourself and it's projected to others.

 

[Domino]

Hm, now that I have some fine ENFJs assembled here--I want to ask what they think of the trait of hastiness. (Which is what I think my worst habit is.) Does it categorize you?

If so, what do you do about it?

If by hastiness you mean an absolute abhorrence for redundancy and wasted moments when I'm already geared for action, then yes, it can be a problem. Sometimes my ENFP sister is hanging onto the back of me digging her heels in to prevent me from acting on an impulse she thinks deserves another look (or is simply something she considers a bad idea). I find I lose patience very quickly when I've arrived at a decision and am already two or three steps beyond that planning my method of attack. I find I mirror my ENTJ bff Athena in that way, even though I have zero Te.

 

[Domino]

How do i annoy an ENFJ?.

Use double punctuation at the end of a sentence.

 

[the state i am in]

i think what people can see as manipulating is that you are very good at painting things in a certain light, creating an emotionally defensible position, perspective, etc. you can write very plausible stories that can justify anything in an emotionally subjective way. you know how to directly affect others, how to elicit certain reactions, and when ungrounded it does not necessarily have any connection to what is actually in their best interest. (or how they perceive their own best interest. you try to bypass their input in the decision-makin process by shaping the information/impression they receive). you can gloss over the way something can effect others, bc you are so dead-set in thinking that you are right, and all the while knowing deep down that this result would have positive ramifications for you (scary!).

as an infj with aux Fe, who was very reclusive for a larger portion of my formative years and is just now getting to developing and relying on Fe aggressively, i can see why this can be so frustrating for others. i am realizing how i can use this in relationships to my advantage, but my years and years of training as a reclusive introvert relying on Ni and especially Ti to understand conceptual purity, truth, etc, has made me extremely wary and distrustful of this kind of point a to point b affect. when particularly moody it feels like emotional propaganda, passive aggressive politicking, etc

it's why i'm so grossed out by my estp shadow, i watch what they do (Se > Ti > Fe) and i find them very loathable, mistrustful, and sometimes inhumane. the stories of conquest i've heard disgust me. i do not feel like everyone wins. Fe that does lip service to the Other, that glosses over it and does not really consider the implications, can be very devious and gross. i wayyyy overdo my objections tho and it's pretty much my overly introverted downfall, bc life involves conquest and conflict no matter which way you slice it.

also as people mature (health!) they become more balanced and more even keel. other functions start to support and check what were once tyrannical dominants and auxilaries. it's maybe no closer to conceptual purity, but it's more flexible and the landings are softer.

edit to add: i think it's also REALLY interesting to see how gender roles play into this equation of manipulation. in a sexual sense, it is LOVED when females behave this way. they are seductive and exciting. when males are this way other males interpret it in a very harsh way, even tho women generally tend to like it. more stereotypical men often view it as cheating the system, and other sensitive introverted men view it as devious, fake, and greasy like a used car salesman. it's easy to watch how ephemeral and rooted in nothing it is for males. watch it change on a dime- it looks like method acting.