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[MBTI General] nf songwriters/musicians

BlueScreen

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I love the Smiths too; to continue the NFP trend. Can we have Morrissey? He still gets to stay in this thread ;).

p.s. I've seen INTJ thrown around for him too.
 
V

violaine

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I dare not hope Morrissey is INFJ being that I can't be sure I'm not falling into the trap of wanting to claim someone I admire as my own type. That said, I really do think he is INFJ. He is so direct and bracing in his communication style and is also a control freak.

I suspect Robert Smith is INFP.
 

BlueScreen

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I dare not hope Morrissey is INFJ being that I can't be sure I'm not falling into the trap of wanting to claim someone I admire as my own type. That said, I really do think he is INFJ. He is so direct and bracing in his communication style and is also a control freak.

I suspect Robert Smith is INFP.

My first instinct when I looked at interview videos of Morrissey was ENTP.

His cause could be Fe or Fi. My problem with INFJ is I'm seeing Ne there. I see it in the lyrics too. There's that overconnectedness, and always wanting to push the limits of it. This line for example screams Ne to me:

Why pamper life's complexities
When the leather runs smooth
On the passenger seat ?

Also, the fact he is so relaxed at thinking on his feet, suggests to me he is an extrovert. The public shyness isn't really I/E related.

p.s. Now I think about it, I don't want to rule INFJ out though, I'm not positive he isn't. I could probably make an argument for INFJ too.

Possibilities in my view are: ENFP, ENTP, ENFJ, INTJ, INFJ, INFP, ISFP (yep, I'm really decisive here :))
 
V

violaine

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Morrissey is definitely not an extrovert.

Was Howard Devoto an influence in the late '70s?

Morrissey: At the time he was, because he was quite like me in temperament, or I was quite like him. I remember seeing Magazine at the Russel Club and they had come back from London, where things were going well for them, and it was quite exciting and he fell on the floor and I thought that was the height of intellectual glamour. I couldn't really see many people like me in pop music. There was Ron Mael. I could identify with him. But nobody else.

What was it about Mael and Devoto?

Morrissey: I thought they were both obviously quite shy and they were clearly grappling with many complex issues. And they weren't smiling. But they were thinking. They weren't on some happy pop roller coaster. Which I also appreciated in Nico. There was still a belief in those days that to be, shall we say, a frontman, you had to be very extrovert and ballsy and have shocking hair.

Part of an interview in SPIN magazine, 1992:

Morrissey: I never, ever felt innocent in the way I think you mean. I never felt open in any way. I would never impulsively ring people and assume that they'd want to see me, or just go 'round. I always had to sit down and think very hard before I knocked on anybody's door. And consequently, I never really knocked. There was no sense of frivolity in my young life at all, ever. There was no such thing as going crazy, or getting drunk, or falling over, or going to a beach or - well, the list goes on. That never occurred. Everything in my life was just hopelessly premeditated.
SPIN: Can you be spontaneous now?
Morrissey: No, not at all.
SPIN: Is that a control thing?
Morrissey: I think it's because you assume that your personality, as it stands, isn't really naturally acceptable to most people - that you have to control it or fashion it slightly, and similarly, your language. It's just a matter of being obsessively self-judgemental, which is completely ruinous, because I think you eventually find that the people with whom you feel most close or think are the most like you are the ones with whom you can say anything that comes into your head, and be as silly and useless as you like.
SPIN: Do you think that, at some level, you're just not capable of trust?
Morrissey: I don't know. I don't think I am. It's a bit too late, really. It's simply come too late.

Quote from interview:

Do you have a daily routine?

Morrissey: It's a very quiet, very private life. It doesn't involve that many people. I usually rise quite early, have a leisurely breakfast, and go out walking or visit somebody. Most of the band live within walking proximity.


From another interview:

You talk a lot about keeping your integrity.

Morrissey: Not many people have it.

What is it?

Morrissey: It's avoiding social embarrassment in all ways. It's trying desperately not to answer the telephone at the wrong time. It's trying desperately not to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's trying not to be seen doing something ridiculous. It's not wanting to be trapped or engineered into doing or saying and being something that you don't want to.

I do need to find better proofs for my reasoning... the fact that he is famous definitely skews impressions. He smacks of INFJ to me. Though, other than being extremely curious, I'm not so attached to typing him as I can't really come up with much more on the topic without doing a bit of research.
 
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shannon hoon of blind melon, michael stipe (infp or infj? i really don't know rem at all), is thom yorke an infp or infj i waffle but now i'm back to guessing infp instead of infj. what about the kravitzs and the ben harpers? i don't like them, but i still wanna know.

mark mathersbaugh sp. from devo???? layne staley from alice in chains? what about jewel? fiona apple? michelle shocked? i want to be back in 1995. and neko case? i think cat power has to be an f, her voice seems un intp to me. as for paul simon, no idea, just regurgitating an old heresay.

and hip hop! who can do the entire wu tang clan? others? moguls? i'm somewhat out of my element here, we need serious help.

Stipe has to be infj. Just too blunt to be infp.
Thom Yorke is an intp. There are several youtube interviews that have him uncorking his explosive Fe on the person interviewing him.

Now, this thread has sent me on a trip on entjs. There are so many that I listen to... and I'd never, ever realized it. Let me list those off the top of my head:

(Layne Staley -don't listen to him, though he has the look and sound,
Fiona Apple, from interviews, seems very entj because of her very commanding voice, but also quite lazy,
Prince -his energy is just too expansive to be anything else, screams Ni-Se but seems to lack boundaries to so much of a degree that his dominant has to be Te from my observations,
Josh Homme,
the singer from the Trail of Dead,
Martin Newell of the Cleaners from Venus, and others that I'll remember a little later.

Not to say other types don't have their share of problems, but in support of my view that Cat Power is intp--I've known several primary Ti's to be alcoholoics. She is just very detached in movements, music, and thought. For example go to YouTube - Cat Power interview on Much Music - at 2:45, Cat notes that [remember Beck?] when she writes music it just sort of "happening" when as she does. It just is. I think infps have to make their music much more personal to feed their Fi, whereas Cat seems to make music just because she can.
 
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more entjs:
Miles Davis (it'd make sense if his buddy John Coltrane were intp - gamma goobers)
David Bowie (calls himself a "pioneer" in music, scraping along at 57 - YouTube - David Bowie interview, Parkinson, 2003, Part 1)
Andrew Lloyd Webber

a few enfjs to throw out there:
the two main XTC guys - Andy and Colin
the two main Led Zeppelin guys
Paddy McAloon of Prefab Sprout
Sondre Lerche
Kate Bush
etc.

It's all really clear to me now. First, state gets this thread and me going. Second, stimulated gets my head absolutely spinning with that angle on Josh Homme. I don't think I'll need to use my Te from here on out! Ha ha ha!
 

OrangeAppled

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this makes me think of a chappelle show skit based on the racial draft. i secretly WANT morrissey to be an infj, but in my heart of hearts i'm afraid to get my hopes up. yet part of me considers that maybe he in fact he IS an infj, and it's just all of the Fi (and particularly infps) types i know who love him that is skewing my interpretation.

(also, i don't really agree with some of your diagnostic. i think infps just take a longer time to develop their writing skills than infjs. by the time our tertiary Ti kicks in, our expression is pretty much complete. Fi takes a longer time to get a grip on, writing probably takes a bit more practice, but auxilary Ne is really creative at generating angles and ideas, and ter Si allows them to hold on to specific concrete things to anchor and focus them. we as infjs might read faster/more than infps as a whole, sometimes i feel like i'm scanning the pages and glossing over them more than slowly digesting them. looking for somethin Ni related, whereas Fi is sorting out and meditating on the feeling-tone of each object. infj learns how to adapt speech-voices to communicate with Fe, and it has more of an immediate conceptual insight from Ni dom. i find infj writing as easiest and most natural when it is at its most Fe talky. it is the first way we learn to express/extravert ourselves).

also, for some reason, my Ni tells me that morrissey and leonard cohen are the same. i am questioning that bc i have no reason to believe it, but that is what it is telling me.


Oh no, I was not implying that INFPS are not good writers, at all.
I was saying both INFJs & INFPs are good writers, but INFPs are less likely to be as articulate in speaking as we are in writing. When we open out mouths we get all muddled, for some reason. For myself, I can be articulate if I make the effort, but I am far more clear in writing where I have time to organize my thoughts.
Morrissey is both an eloquent writer & speaker, which makes me think he is an INFJ.

Anyway, I agree with Sanveane. Of the many Moz interviews I have read, he screams INFJ. I really don't see him as an extrovert, although I agree that shyness twists things, and he's likely not healthy, whatever his type, haha. I suppose I am basing my guess on the overall descriptions of a type. I still think INFJ fits him the best. INFP is close, except we're not as rigid.

----


Anyone want to type Jarvis Cocker of Pulp? I absolutely adore him, and that caddish sense of humor he has :D
 
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also, for some reason, my Ni tells me that morrissey and leonard cohen are the same. i am questioning that bc i have no reason to believe it, but that is what it is telling me.

i have not thought about brian eno at all, but when you mention him as an infj/enfj it doesn't compute as incorrect. very vast and florid, he is always exploring. plus i think infjs can make great producers. they are probably more me-centric than an enfj producer would be, they would put more of their own stamp on the product, but they can seamlessly blend ideas, concepts, directions. plus based on one interview i read, i felt like he had that look in the eye that infjs can get. views his role as synthesizing vast amounts of (musical) information, and very confident in his big picture understanding/judgment of what is important, relevant, etc.

When in doubt, use the process of elimination (regarding Leonard Cohen)
YouTube - Leonard Cohen Interview, 4/28/85 (Part 1)

^above is an infj on infj interview.

Moz is also infj, not a doubt about it. Fulfills the infj/intp combo myth, even, Marr as an intp.
 

Thursday

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the lead singer of incubus - ENFJ
 

simulatedworld

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the lead singer of incubus - ENFJ

Noooo, not even a little bit J. He's so Ne dom it's absolutely silly; listen to their first record and pay attention to the flat out drug-induced absurdity of his lyrics. For instance, from "Take Me To Your Leader":

What if I was just dreaming?
What if I lived in a pear?
What if I had a mustard-drenched cucumber tied to my leg
And I did not want my pants to get dirty
What if this, what if that?


I actually sing in an Incubus tribute band so I've studied every aspect of the music, the lyrics and the personal interview styles of the members to a pretty ridiculous degree, and my type reads on the band at this point are as follows:

Brandon Boyd (vocals) - ENFP
Michael Einziger (guitar) - INFP
Ben Kenney (bass) - ENFP
Jose Pasillas (drums) - INTP
Chris Kilmore (DJ/effects) - ISFP

And former members:

Dirk Lance (bass up thru Morning View) - INTJ; this explains his constant personal friction with the other members (Brandon in particular.) If you watch the Morning View sessions he's constantly taking a leading role in working out arrangements; rumor has it this album was particularly difficult because he was so stubborn/controlling on a lot of the songs (which would annoy the piss out a bunch of FPs, I'd expect.)

DJ Lyfe (scratches/samples on Enjoy Incubus EP and S.C.I.E.N.C.E) - Probably xSTP; according to the the band, the last incident that finally resulted in him being fired was when he turned up all his shit so loud on stage one night that nothing else was even audible.

Anyway, just my two cents on that, being that I'm a pretty big nerd for that band. :)
 

BlueScreen

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I do need to find better proofs for my reasoning... the fact that he is famous definitely skews impressions. He smacks of INFJ to me. Though, other than being extremely curious, I'm not so attached to typing him as I can't really come up with much more on the topic without doing a bit of research.

Nah it's cool. I'm seeing it now.

More evidence can't hurt though. I need to do some research too. He's got so many facets that it's hard to decide which matters, or is true to the person not the persona.
 

the state i am in

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I dare not hope Morrissey is INFJ being that I can't be sure I'm not falling into the trap of wanting to claim someone I admire as my own type. That said, I really do think he is INFJ. He is so direct and bracing in his communication style and is also a control freak.

I suspect Robert Smith is INFP.

this is exactly what i'm saying. same with leonard cohen (crosses fingers)!

Stipe has to be infj. Just too blunt to be infp.
Thom Yorke is an intp. There are several youtube interviews that have him uncorking his explosive Fe on the person interviewing him.

what do you mean by too blunt? do you too perceive of infjs as being more self-righteous, to assert their ideals more aggressively than infps? i think this might be true, i just need another nudge to see it in the open.

thom broke down, lost his mind, couldn't take the pressure of everyone's eyes. listen to pablo honey, songs like stop whispering, thinking about you, you, etc. they sound like bad u2 songs, but soooo personal. same with the bends. then he broke down during ok computer a la billy corgan on siamese dream, and after the breakdown never released a personal intimate immediate work again. always the distance. radiohead makes up for it in sheer talent, Ti ability as a band, Se, and all of the design team they have perfecting the product (even the packaging!). but he seems like an unhealthy inf for sure to me. "meeting people is easy." true love waits sounds like an infj song to me, as does talk show host, street spirit, and planet telex. fake plastic trees and ok computer maybe too. actually today i'm back in the unhealthy infj camp, tho fake plastic trees to me SEEMS like Ne, as does paranoid android, etc, but it's really difficult to tell. the lyrics always have a coherency to them, karma police, my iron lung is so unhealthy inf, just- i'm not sure, high and dry seems infj. he seems like he has strong Ti to me, he very easily could be a really unhealthy Fe type (poor guy). he can't keep the opinions and attitudes of others outside of his own skin. today i think infj. i think johnny greenberg is probably infp or isfp.


(Layne Staley -don't listen to him, though he has the look and sound,
Fiona Apple, from interviews, seems very entj because of her very commanding voice, but also quite lazy,
Prince -his energy is just too expansive to be anything else, screams Ni-Se but seems to lack boundaries to so much of a degree that his dominant has to be Te from my observations,
Josh Homme,
the singer from the Trail of Dead,
Martin Newell of the Cleaners from Venus, and others that I'll remember a little later.

layne staley seems i to me. the body of an overdosed extravert would be found before it had decomposed. he was way trapped in his own world. maybe isfp. and the prince characterization of isfp makes more sense than any other i've heard so far. i would have guessed fiona apple is an isfp too a la kirsten dunst. she seems introverted with Fi dom.

Not to say other types don't have their share of problems, but in support of my view that Cat Power is intp--I've known several primary Ti's to be alcoholoics. She is just very detached in movements, music, and thought. For example go to YouTube - Cat Power interview on Much Music - at 2:45, Cat notes that [remember Beck?] when she writes music it just sort of "happening" when as she does. It just is. I think infps have to make their music much more personal to feed their Fi, whereas Cat seems to make music just because she can.

beck and cat power, as far as music just happening, just coming out- that seems way more infp to me than intp. intps deconstruct the shit out of everything. they plot, they arrange their ideas explicitly and articulate them over and over. it's exhausting and when they get the bug, they dive into it 100% without stopping. they keep writing, they get jacked up on speed, they cannot stop or sleep or eat bc they are working constantly. beck and cat power seem like the music comes out of Ne, they're feelings are strong and well-developed, songs come out easily bc they can project their feelings so powerfully even if the formal construction is hackneyed, boring, repetitive, etc. beck writes mutations and sea change, there's like two or three interesting compositions between the two records. but they're listenable bc of Fi. same with cat power, every cat power record may or may not be a covers record bc it doesn't even matter. it's her singing. (except the moon is a great great song).

more entjs:
Miles Davis (it'd make sense if his buddy John Coltrane were intp - gamma goobers)
David Bowie (calls himself a "pioneer" in music, scraping along at 57 - YouTube - David Bowie interview, Parkinson, 2003, Part 1)
Andrew Lloyd Webber

bowie has got to be a p. his first function is Pe, i just don't know if he's an n or an s. i think he's a t tho for sure.

miles as an entj i could maybe see. i've read his autobiography and he struck me WAY more as an isfp. felt like bob dylan memoirs or john steinbeck travels with charley. he has the same understatement, simplicity, focus, etc, and he seems intent on leading quietly, directing the course of the music in an Fi kind of way to me. i don't know tho, he could be an istj or isfj for all i know. he always give people space to be themselves. coltrane i think has to be an infp. his conversion shit, a love supreme, i dunno let's keep this one going.

re: a love supreme, carlos santana also seems isfp to me, agree/disagree?

a few enfjs to throw out there:
the two main XTC guys - Andy and Colin
the two main Led Zeppelin guys
Paddy McAloon of Prefab Sprout
Sondre Lerche
Kate Bush
etc.

jimmy page and robert plant as enfjs? jimmy page HAS to be an introvert. plant could be an enfj, i would see that as a possibility. i personally hate him, he has a glory complex, the lyrics have some Ni to them, i think. jimmy page seems like he could be an isfp or an infp or an intp or an istp. i really have no idea. i'd guess t over f pretty strongly, without hearing him speak.

also, i thought kate bush seemed to be considered an infp? i would guess enfp/infp, with the best advice being that she seemed very introverted. her grandeur seems very Ne to me, not Ni.

When in doubt, use the process of elimination (regarding Leonard Cohen)
YouTube - Leonard Cohen Interview, 4/28/85 (Part 1)

^above is an infj on infj interview.

Moz is also infj, not a doubt about it. Fulfills the infj/intp combo myth, even, Marr as an intp.

i'll check out this interview. what is this infj/intp combo myth you speak o? i NEED to hear about it!

i often have trouble with infj/intp typing, i've seen writers like vladimir nabokov and my favorite writer donald barthelme seem very borderline. the Ti presence in some infjs is very strong and confuses matters, and Ni/Ne are very difficult in lyrical type expressions. Ni is highly contextual within your own interpretative framework/environment, but your framework/environment may be extremely weird and twisted. also, it is. i have similar problems with songwriters like stephin merritt, of the magnetic fields, today i think he's an infj instead of an intp. i'm settled on lou as a quintessential intp example, but also the elvis costellos, the andrew birds, the sufjan stevens, they could be an aloof withdrawn introverted excessively masked infj. cashmir pulaski day!
 

hokie912

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My first instinct when I looked at interview videos of Morrissey was ENTP.

His cause could be Fe or Fi. My problem with INFJ is I'm seeing Ne there. I see it in the lyrics too. There's that overconnectedness, and always wanting to push the limits of it. This line for example screams Ne to me:

Why pamper life's complexities
When the leather runs smooth
On the passenger seat ?

I disagree...I don't see Ne with Morrissey's lyrics at all. I relate to them a lot because they're fairly concrete and make sense to me, and usually don't draw as many random external connections. Even the example given here, which is on the abstract side for Morrissey, seems more Ni than Ne, somehow. I think he mainly writes the connections he sees, and I don't see a conscious pushing of limits lyrically. I'm going to go with introverted intuition here.

My first guess is INFJ, and I'm another who's hesitant to claim people I admire. I definitely think he's an INXJ, though. If not INFJ, I would guess INTJ with strongly developed Fi. But really, pretty much textbook INFJ.

Edited to add: Okay, watching interviews. Seems Fe, which casts doubt on the possibility of INTJ.
 
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Jarvis is enfj.

Like I said, Te's in the trashbin.

Well what's this picture?:
arts-graphics-2007_1179304a.jpg

Jarvis with an istp?

I have to fix the sound on my computer look at this with a closer eyar.
 

OrangeAppled

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Well what's this picture?:
arts-graphics-2007_1179304a.jpg

Jarvis with an istp?

I have to fix the sound on my computer look at this with a closer eyar.


Is that the Babyshambles guy (Pete something-or-other)? Oh my...I think his type is: SCREWED UP. :tongue:
 

OrangeAppled

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My first guess is INFJ, and I'm another who's hesitant to claim people I admire. I definitely think he's an INXJ, though. If not INFJ, I would guess INTJ with strongly developed Fi. But really, pretty much textbook INFJ.

Edited to add: Okay, watching interviews. Seems Fe, which casts doubt on the possibility of INTJ.

No way is he INTJ.....just no way. :shock:
I have a feeling INTJs are some of the people who say, "Morrissey is so whiny!" :D
 

hokie912

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Yeah, I take back my INTJ guess, having spent a good portion of the evening watching Morrissey interviews/performances. Lots and lots of feeling (Fe, I think), and no Te.
 

the state i am in

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i think i'm switching my favorite songwriter ever david berman to infp, but i'm switching stephen malkmus to infj. he seems like the writer tom wolfe but all slackered out. i think Fe is really good at mimicking voices, it learns how to articulate in the voice of the Other. and stephen always has that jutted out hip.

david berman seems infp bc it seems Ne to me no matter how i try to justify it. he can hold on to the feeling deeper until he can explore all the fringes of connection that exist far across the great expanse to the horizon. he just keeps writing one true line at a time.

robert smith as an infp seems so so so right. and i'm pretty sure songwriter simon joyner is an infp. his songs seem Ne to me as well and organized by an inner feeling apparatus that does not EVER recede. he wears it around town, you can feel the weightiness pulling him inward. do check him out. he always gets plugs from conor oberst, and beck back in his anti-folk days really dug his record "the cowardly traveller pays his toll" sic. the song cole porter in particular is excellent.

i'm still working on these. and awaiting criticism/updates for others already listed.

fiona apple (isfp)
lenny kravitz (isfp)
ben harper (isfp)
jewel (isfp)
m ward (isfp)
jason pierce (isfp)
layne staley (isfp)

mark mathersbaugh (infj)
daniel johnston (infj)
will shef (infj?)
paul simon (infj?)
mars volta (infj)
shannon hoon (infx)
lou barlow (infx)
bill callahan (infx)
will oldham

arthur russell (enfj)

neko case (intp)
john zorn (intp)
 
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what do you mean by too blunt? do you too perceive of infjs as being more self-righteous, to assert their ideals more aggressively than infps? i think this might be true, i just need another nudge to see it in the open.

I have no idea what I was thinking. Tonight I'm leaning towards him being infp since he likes to use the word "whatever" in a lot of his interviews.

thom broke down, lost his mind, couldn't take the pressure of everyone's eyes. listen to pablo honey, songs like stop whispering, thinking about you, you, etc. they sound like bad u2 songs, but soooo personal. same with the bends. then he broke down during ok computer a la billy corgan on siamese dream, and after the breakdown never released a personal intimate immediate work again. always the distance. radiohead makes up for it in sheer talent, Ti ability as a band, Se, and all of the design team they have perfecting the product (even the packaging!). but he seems like an unhealthy inf for sure to me. "meeting people is easy." true love waits sounds like an infj song to me, as does talk show host, street spirit, and planet telex. fake plastic trees and ok computer maybe too. actually today i'm back in the unhealthy infj camp, tho fake plastic trees to me SEEMS like Ne, as does paranoid android, etc, but it's really difficult to tell. the lyrics always have a coherency to them, karma police, my iron lung is so unhealthy inf, just- i'm not sure, high and dry seems infj. he seems like he has strong Ti to me, he very easily could be a really unhealthy Fe type (poor guy). he can't keep the opinions and attitudes of others outside of his own skin. today i think infj. i think johnny greenberg is probably infp or isfp.

I guess all I can say to this right now is that I still think the two guys in Radiohead are intps, just very emotionally charged guys, and that I've met plenty of intps who are super sensitive compared to me. So much for the facts...

layne staley seems i to me. the body of an overdosed extravert would be found before it had decomposed. he was way trapped in his own world. maybe isfp. and the prince characterization of isfp makes more sense than any other i've heard so far. i would have guessed fiona apple is an isfp too a la kirsten dunst. she seems introverted with Fi dom.

I'm not going to look them the hell up right now and take your word for it. It's just that I'm now starting to recognize what it really means to be isfp, and not inXp (or looking like entj on videos) so my experience isn't worth much at this point.

beck and cat power, as far as music just happening, just coming out- that seems way more infp to me than intp. intps deconstruct the shit out of everything. they plot, they arrange their ideas explicitly and articulate them over and over. it's exhausting and when they get the bug, they dive into it 100% without stopping. they keep writing, they get jacked up on speed, they cannot stop or sleep or eat bc they are working constantly. beck and cat power seem like the music comes out of Ne, they're feelings are strong and well-developed, songs come out easily bc they can project their feelings so powerfully even if the formal construction is hackneyed, boring, repetitive, etc. beck writes mutations and sea change, there's like two or three interesting compositions between the two records. but they're listenable bc of Fi. same with cat power, every cat power record may or may not be a covers record bc it doesn't even matter. it's her singing. (except the moon is a great great song).

I'm not convinced. And I believe you're prodding in the dark like me with your description here. As a primary Fi, I don't hear it in their music. Maybe a well-projected tertiary Fi.

Looking at (YouTube - Cat Power - I don't blame you), I find her deliver rather up front and direct, and her song itself constructed like a house, brick by brick by logical brick.

And back to Beck (YouTube - Beck interview - The Information 2007)... focus on the background song. There is a different feel to compositions with beats between intp and infps to me. On one hand, infps are more concerned with the placements of the individual beats, the timing and such. At the same time, intps are also concerned about the placements of the beats, only they are able to just "let it happen" logically and "build" their song depending on how they "feel." Back to infps, they look at each placement as imperative to the final result and lasting impact on listeners, therefore are more susceptible to being influenced. You have mentioned that intps break boundaries in music. They certainly do. And they certainly do make music according to how they "feel", because they do feel, feel what they think.

bowie has got to be a p. his first function is Pe, i just don't know if he's an n or an s. i think he's a t tho for sure.

I want to hear why. On top of what I already mentioned to you, his Fe does seem too low to be the popular choice, enfj. So if Bowie's estp, does that help cement the idea that Iggy's intj?

miles as an entj i could maybe see. i've read his autobiography and he struck me WAY more as an isfp. felt like bob dylan memoirs or john steinbeck travels with charley. he has the same understatement, simplicity, focus, etc, and he seems intent on leading quietly, directing the course of the music in an Fi kind of way to me. i don't know tho, he could be an istj or isfj for all i know. he always give people space to be themselves. coltrane i think has to be an infp. his conversion shit, a love supreme, i dunno let's keep this one going.

re: a love supreme, carlos santana also seems isfp to me, agree/disagree?

Jazz is beyond me tonight and probably the rest of spring break. I guess I'll take your word for it if you spent time reading his book. Yeah, he played with Prince in the 80s, so both could be isfps? That'd make sense.

jimmy page and robert plant as enfjs? jimmy page HAS to be an introvert. plant could be an enfj, i would see that as a possibility. i personally hate him, he has a glory complex, the lyrics have some Ni to them, i think. jimmy page seems like he could be an isfp or an infp or an intp or an istp. i really have no idea. i'd guess t over f pretty strongly, without hearing him speak.

Well, looking here at this interview of Page (YouTube - Jimmy Page interview & Led Zeppelin Reunion O2 Rock and Roll), I definitely see/hear Fe. But not dominant Fe. No. He stresses how expertly his band plays (1:10) rather than how great he feels to still be playing. This was a band that you've always heard about them aiming to be the loudest band ever, or something along those lines. And we know page was the driving force in the band. So I'd revise my guess and say that he's istp.

also, i thought kate bush seemed to be considered an infp? i would guess enfp/infp, with the best advice being that she seemed very introverted. her grandeur seems very Ne to me, not Ni.

You know what? I'm going to jump right out and say that Kate is an ISTJ. I know a girl who has been in several of my classes over the years and they seem very similar. Moreover, I don't hear dominant Fi in her music. Very plodding, step by step snorefest music. And remember how we decided that Tori Amos is istj? There's a duet on youtube between the two of them (YouTube - Kate Bush, Tori Amos "Duet"). Robots.

i'll check out this interview. what is this infj/intp combo myth you speak o? i NEED to hear about it!

i often have trouble with infj/intp typing, i've seen writers like vladimir nabokov and my favorite writer donald barthelme seem very borderline. the Ti presence in some infjs is very strong and confuses matters, and Ni/Ne are very difficult in lyrical type expressions. Ni is highly contextual within your own interpretative framework/environment, but your framework/environment may be extremely weird and twisted. also, it is. i have similar problems with songwriters like stephin merritt, of the magnetic fields, today i think he's an infj instead of an intp. i'm settled on lou as a quintessential intp example, but also the elvis costellos, the andrew birds, the sufjan stevens, they could be an aloof withdrawn introverted excessively masked infj. cashmir pulaski day!

I have to start reading these book things.
 
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