i will concede joanna is very possbibly an enneagram 9 INFP. she is so stubborn and unrelenting in her vision that I supposed I recognized a bit of that in me and projected some 4w5 onto her. I can be dreamy and sweet just as often as I'm moody and inscrutable
i'm not sure what you're trying to say here. she is stubborn and unrelenting? are these more relevant or less relevant for certain types? i would think type would explain the ways in which stubborness, for instance, is differentiated and requires more uphill climb to be able to let go of. but that would be the limit of what i feel i could reasonably claim.
definitely definitely not an INFJ, however, as you previously claimed her to be. i can discern between INFPs and INFJs much more easily and readily than their enneagrams; INFP 9s and INFJ 9s have very different presences.
i don't disagree with the latter comment. but i also can't really take much away from this.
all intuitives are less in the moment than sensing types, but i definitely wouldn't call most of them ethereal; infps are really the most outwardly dreamy. that combination of fi + ne creates this kind of otherworldly, soft, expansive presence that i've never experienced in any other type. INFJs are definitely otherwordly, but all of the ones i've met/watched videos of have this focused, kind of discordant emotional presence + aren't really content to just let things float up past the sky. as i said in my other post, they are more ninja-like than airy fairy dreamy. they need answers and resolution more than us INFPs.
do you think this first statement is true? i think being in the moment happens when people don't lose their connection with their primary instrument of direct experience, which begins with their bodies and can get disrupted when they get totally stuck in their heads. and N has no claim to have an exclusive hold on head type energies, so some Se types can lose get out of the moment as well. esps are most often 7s! istps are 5s! i also think it can be a tendency of introverts especially to be more easily caught in the tangles of the past, because that's kind of the orientation, which predisposes to rumination (as does emotional conflicts that we don't figure out how to directly face at an emotional level). meanwhile, Ne can be in the moment just as Se, even if the flow of energies constituting the moment has a different kind of focus and is constructed in different ways. extroverted perception is extroverted perception. Se may be more proprioceptively grounded, but that does not mean that Ne does not also have a rich type of presence that is just a bit less rooted in body clock but is still feeling the forward march of time just the same (because the process of having direct experience it itself rooted in the action of scanning, which is a time creating linear forward movement of calculating how change has just been happening).
leonard cohen can come across as pretentious but i don't think his intention is to cultivate an image first and foremost. i think he feels, puts things out there and public perception and ego can get mixed in as well. i think most of the 'best lover evar' mystique surrounding him was mostly made by other people. 4w5s can definitely get tripped up by ego. i can't say i'm entirely certain as to his enneagram (i'll have to watch more videos) but i am pretty confident he's an INFP. still wondering how you can peg such a quiet, introspective. languid man as an ENFJ. have you met one? they have a very very different energy to them. they are charged with that extrovert energy even in their quieter moments.
i'm not saying it's not cheeky, but field commander cohen is the one who chooses to title records "death of a ladies man." he definitely builds a nice little mythology for himself that to me seems to see himself through the eyes of others more than his own. unless it's who he wants to be and not as much what he actually is, which he is certainly focusing on in pretty much everything he does. i don't ever get the feeling his art comes before the way it affects his idea of himself. and as what i see a fellow 4 wing, i get that. but he's not a 4w5. he's getting on the main stage. he's gonna win EVERYBODY over. that's just my vibe. more desire to excel, less desire to find and follow truth. i mean, when are the personally vulnerable songs coming? i just don't get the emotional center of gravity i get from the infp 4w5s i know. i get bombast, affectation, voicing, insight, beautification, etc.
i love his songs, but i love them the way i love my own adolescent journals. they're precocious as shit, but they're also full of shit too. i'm pretty sure he knows that, which is part of where the game and the fun come in. because why not. granted, i couldn't do much after (chronologically speaking) death of a ladies man, which i still think is a kind of an enjoyable record.
why do you believe intention doesn't play into MBTI type? an INFJ 4w5 and INFP 4w5 are still very different in terms of intentions; the INFJ will desire for a greater group togetherness even as they greatly value self-expression and the INFP will give much less of a fuck about group dynamics.
because it's a way of processing information. it's a quality of ordering. to skip to embodiment without seeing it clearly doesn't really yield effective categorization. and to assign categorical intentions without that clear seeing doesn't make sense to me. they'd have to be so vague they wouldn't hold up.
building on that, i also don't really accept many of your claims. Fe doesn't mean you just care about group togetherness. it means you are focusing on how the conditions of communication effect the unity qualitatively, in an embodied way, of whatever emerging level of organization you are trying to impact. i'm an sx/sp. i'm not group oriented. what you say just doesn't apply. i'm also definitely not Fi first. the logic of the scheme just breaks down. Fi types are better at focusing evaluation on the implications of direct qualitative experience. Fe types are better at focusing evaluation on the qualitative meaning of cascading messages as they are bound together by a system or grammar of organized interaction principles. meanwhile, social instinct infps often do a shit ton of work checking in with everyone and building effective group interaction. i've seen it too many times. they're often really good at demographics because they clearly see how factors of place and path lead to different general stories of experience that bind together commonality at an experiential level. they get what people go through. sp/sx aren't really like that. their field of focus in social interactions is generally different and doesn't really yield itself to naturally, from the beginning, just innately having a desire to if not take responsibility for the whole of the group, do at least one's part in maintaining that and constantly checking in with that to make sure they aren't letting down the group. sp would be more avoidant of being out of control, wasteful, ineffective, unrealistic, etc, so they'd try to focus on whatever was the foundation first (and privileging sx over so would influence that order of checking in and where the energy of the action would come from).
