• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NF] NFs Is it easier to be a selfless individual, when you have low self esteem?

ReadingRainbows

Cat Wench
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
1,885
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Is it truly easier to be a selfless individual when you have low self esteem?
Why or why not??
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
That is a loaded question. I look forward to reading through the discussion.

People who are ego-centric (in being primarily aware of their own little sphere at the expense of others) can go from arrogance to self-deprecation in an instant. Being caught anywhere on that continuum can make it difficult to be self-less. Both extremes create a strong internal need and sense of internal emptiness. Arrogance is often shadowed by insecurity because it is difficult to keep up the facade in one's mind of being better than others. Low self-esteem and depression can make a person only aware of their own world. It can result in hurting others by assuming they don't care, assuming it doesn't matter what happens to you, assuming it's okay if others hurt you. There are few things I know that are more painful than watching someone I love let other people hurt them. It is selfless in one way, but tends to only consider the feelings of those who are taking from them and dismisses the feelings of those who would like to give.

I think true selflessness is based on empathy, of seeing other people at eye-level. When you can see others as your equal and feel neither threatened or superior, that is when you can understand and care most effectively.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yes this is very loaded. I think it works either way, NFs seek approval regardless so they will want to do things that give them approval. I was like this when I had low self esteem and I am still like this now when I have pretty good self esteem.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
i don't know...i can see it both ways. someone with poor self esteem may be very giving of their self and think they are being selfless when in reality it is this giving that makes them feel good about their self so it is self serving...but isn't it always that way??

i don't know but i don't like unequal relationships for anyone...i feel like it should always go both ways and everyone should value themselves enough to expect that.
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
MBTI Type
INTP
I think selflessness, with it's more positive connotations, as in not just "not having concern for oneself" but "the act of sacrificing ones own interest for the greater good", favors people with higher self-esteem.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,708
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
738
(wrong, basically)
What about getting past the barely first degree bad analysis for a try?

First of all self esteem has more than one angle and or definition you can play with behavioraly speaking, let's define that for starters.
And then define the types of 'selfless' things a low or high self esteem individual will tend to do.
etc
 

tibby

New member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
682
MBTI Type
fool
Is it truly easier to be a selfless individual when you have low self esteem?
Why or why not??

No, because if you're being selfless and have a low self esteem it usually means it's a way to reduce guilty (works as for whatever punishment for whatever reason you have a low self esteem). The motives are just screwed

Nobody's actually selfless and I have a hard time with altruism. People who in their actions/words put others completely before themselves are hiding something huge and try to gain self worth with their "apparently" unselfish deeds

True authencity (true altruistic behaviour) becomes possible only when you have the same standards for yourself and for others.

=> One should be as merciful/forgiving/accepting of oneself as one is of others. Only then can one comprehend equality.

(If we're talking this idealistically and such thing as "selfness" does exist).


Okay I missed the point, sorry... Hm I mean it is easier to act selfless when you have low self esteem yes




(what what what)
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,708
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
738
For example, religious culture\belief based selflessness is philosophicaly different from an atheist's one. but religions themselves find their roots in human behavior and brain structure. The same religions will also be influenced by and influence the set of moral values and normal social behaviors and attitudes of its members. So one doesn't need to agree with a particular set of belief\life philosophy to be influenced by it via mass culture.
So it's kind of an ouroboros. It's difficult to know where the natural human tendency \ social animal behavior start and where the meme's influence becomes strong enough to be considered as the "sole" conscious cause of the selfless action.
Then you have every part of the choice that simply isn't conscious, starting by internalised values.
Here's a dumb example: if you had no more keys on your keyboard u'd probably not be able to place them all back, yet you can type xx words a minute without even glancing at it. It works pretty much the same way for alot of behaviors\attitudes and values we have.

Then there's the fact that nobody'd do something if they didn't have some motivation to do so, some sort of pleasure in exchange. So selflessness intervene on a limited level and not the behavior as a whole.

meh, 'd like to talk and talk but I got to go.

Anyway, gotta go.
cu:cheese:
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
No, because if you're being selfless and have a low self esteem it usually means it's a way to reduce guilty (works as for whatever punishment for whatever reason you have a low self esteem). The motives are just screwed

Nobody's actually selfless and I have a hard time with altruism. People who in their actions/words put others completely before themselves are hiding something huge and try to gain self worth with their "apparently" unselfish deeds

True authencity (true altruistic behaviour) becomes possible only when you have the same standards for yourself and for others.

=> One should be as merciful/forgiving/accepting of oneself as one is of others. Only then can one comprehend equality.

(If we're talking this idealistically and such thing as "selfness" does exist).


Okay I missed the point, sorry... Hm I mean it is easier to act selfless when you have low self esteem yes




(what what what)
agreed...in a sense i feel like you have to be secure about your own worth to be able to give for the sake of giving and not just trying to fill a hole...just knowing what comes around goes around.
 

nozflubber

DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,078
MBTI Type
Hype
see, this thread is prime example of why NFs don't get to be in the "strongest women" thread! Stop hatin' on me when its y'all hatin on yoselvez, B!
 

Splittet

Wannabe genius
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
632
MBTI Type
INTJ
The research says no. It shows happy people (more self-esteem) are helpful people. It's a very consistent finding. Positive thinking generally leads to more positive actions. Traits correlating to helpfulness are positive emotionality, empathy and self-efficacy. Some individuals with low self-esteem are pre-occupied by depression and other problems, which in part explains why they are less helpful on average.
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
MBTI Type
INTP
agreed...in a sense i feel like you have to be secure about your own worth to be able to give for the sake of giving and not just trying to fill a hole...just knowing what comes around goes around.

And people with low self-esteem who give just so they can fill a void, probably see their self-esteem rise as a result of thinking they've done something good.
 

Winds of Thor

New member
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
1,842
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Good Question..I'll take a look

Is it truly easier to be a selfless individual when you have low self esteem?
Why or why not??

I would think anytime is a good time to be selfless. And I believe this is linked to giving.

I don't know...I don't consider self-esteem as linked to giving (necessarily). All things are linked perhaps. It may be that one's priorities can change relative to their self-esteem...but then again my self-esteem (p. 148 Please Understand Me II, Kiersey) is driven in being ingenious..So I look at giving this way:

Giving, to me, is the spirit and act of providing someone other than oneself, with something. That could mean something tangible and/or intangible. In that, meaning the spirit of giving expects no reward in return...otherwise it's not giving and that wouldn't make sense. That would be a lie.

When I give to someone, I do not expect anything in return. Such a thing would negate the whole spirit and idea of giving...that, I would quickly much rather call selfishness, or a cloaking of intentions. And that, is to a degree, evil in action as I see it.

The true spirit of giving is what's important here. As a result, we often feel good if it's reflected upon. But the intention of giving comes first and genuinely from the heart.

I can't see how that would hurt one's self-esteem, so certainly it wouldn't. If you get an inkling to give I would rise up and do it.
 

Tiny Army

New member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
679
MBTI Type
EN?P
Enneagram
7
When I had low self esteem I cared about no one but myself. Only now that I feel good about myself do I feel more invested in making others feel good about themselves. It's a great feeling and I just want to spread it!
 

SuperServal

New member
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Messages
376
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
People with low self esteem are constantly worrying about how they appear to everyone else. This may produce selfless acts but, as others have said, the goal would be to make yourself more appreciated by everyone else. I would like to ask: is this a bad thing? I know some people who really doubt their self-worth and have given only to increase their popularity. While this is not true altruism I think it may eventually lead there. If they feel more appreciated by others then their actual self-worth has a high chance of increasing. Genuine relationships could be formed that could eventually foster high self-esteems and a need to give just to give.

What I'm saying is that people with low self-esteem are trying to be liked by people. Most people want others to like them. If we didn't have this drive would we actually work on building relationships? Sure, it seems "bad" to form relationships to fill in the hole of feeling unneeded, but if a genuine connection is eventually formed how can this be bad? Both parties end up with something good.

....I think I'm just repeating myself now so I'll stop.
 

Splittet

Wannabe genius
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
632
MBTI Type
INTJ
I see some speculate that low self-esteem might lead to selfless act because they will need the appreciation. Studies show no. But there is an effect that's kind of similar, but it's a short-term effect, created by situations, and not personality. When people feel guilt and experience self-image threats they become more helpful, to restore self-image.
 

Anja

New member
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
2,967
MBTI Type
INFP
In my teens and twenties my self-esteem was abysmal. And I couldn't say "No" to anyone. It was a long couple of decades of resentment for me.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think selflessness, with it's more positive connotations, as in not just "not having concern for oneself" but "the act of sacrificing ones own interest for the greater good", favors people with higher self-esteem.
Well-put. Also, being considerate of those who share your larger picture can be a reasoned choice. Cooperation is often just a good idea that brings emergent benefits to all involved.

It is important to recognize what we share with others including our own value. My observations and experience with low-self esteem suggests that when it is a component of a basically "nice" person, then it can motivate behaviors that put other peoples feelings first in certain situations, but it tends to be inconsistent. Like I mentioned earlier, the person who doesn't think much of self tends to go more out of their way to gain approval from people who treat them like shit and can have blind spots towards the people who are good to them especially when those interests conflict with the nasty folks interest. That is because the nasty folks are validating their inner world view of worthlessness, and so it dominants their mind and actions.
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
MBTI Type
YMCA
The better my life is, the more I have to give and share. Every interaction becomes something amazing. I'm not sure if it is general for NF, but when I'm on a winning streak it is like love and generosity starts flowing in my veins. I feel settled and just want to make the world better.

I think low self esteem just slows me down and makes me less sure of acting on things. I have the ideas then shut them down and want to be unintrusive. Go into my shell a lot more.
 
Top