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[MBTI General] How do you take criticism

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Strange. For me, it's the exact opposite: I don't give a shit about what an outsider thinks of me, but if a person I'm very close with criticizes me, I take it very personally (yes, I'm not easy to live with in this matter, people (girlfriends, basically) have to learn about this trait and modify their behavior according).


Here we should draw a distinction between criticism and attack on character. Criticism is an objective remark aimed at pointing our an error. Attack on character is an expression of personal disapproval.

We all are more likely to suffer more from disapproval from a friend than from a stranger. However, Feelers tend to be unable to avoid confusing diapproval from criticism when it comes from a stranger. When it comes from a friend, they'd be able to see that it truly is a criticism as opposed to an attack on character, despite that it feels initially like an attack on character. Moreover, in that case they would be more likely to tend to think that it was a criticism rather than an attack on character because they expect that the friend has their best interests in mind. Therefore he/she would be more likely to point out errors for the Feeler's own good, as opposed to take shots at them. For the reason they'd be more open to critical comments from 'friends' than non-friends because they deem for them to be less likely to be attacks on character. If it comes from a stranger, they likely will go with the initial feeling that it was a disapproval and treat the act as such.
 

ladypinkington

Rubber Nipple Salesperson
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
1,126
MBTI Type
INFJ
I even take not good enough compliments as criticism,lol.
That was good.
Good- it's not great?!. I wanted it to be great. :(
Inside I'm feeling- I'm a failure!

Can you say artistically tempermental?

I take everything personally too and am overly sensitive. But I am fine after I have had a chance to react and go through my emotions=then I am capable of logically reacting to it. A lot of times though- If I am a deer in headlights- and freeze and am unable to react at the time a crticism is given-It will stay with me longer -maybe forever and will get me more emotional and emotional toward it unless I make sure I get CLOSURE with the person and am able to REACT. Good friends make sure they pull out my emotions and allow me to react and know after that I will be very reasonable and can listen and be more rational.

I don't take any criticism/critique well at first. I have my emotional reaction and beat myself up extremely easily and or get defensive extremely easily but if it is from a friend- I will take it seriously and ponder it but if it is also from a friend they will know how I am and make sure that they balance a "knock down" or a negative with a "lifting up" comment and positive reassuring statement along with the criticism or critique.

I was the type of kid and still am in a metaphorical sense where for every spanking or scolding I needed 30 hugs and warm fuzzies,lol.
 

tovlo

New member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
248
MBTI Type
INFJ
I even take not good enough compliments as criticism,lol.
That was good.
Good- it's not great?!. I wanted it to be great. :(
Inside I'm feeling- I'm a failure!

Can you say artistically tempermental?

I take everything personally too and am overly sensitive. But I am fine after I have had a chance to react and go through my emotions=then I am capable of logically reacting to it. A lot of times though- If I am a deer in headlights- and freeze and am unable to react at the time a crticism is given-It will stay with me longer -maybe forever and will get me more emotional and emotional toward it unless I make sure I get CLOSURE with the person and am able to REACT. Good friends make sure they pull out my emotions and allow me to react and know after that I will be very reasonable and can listen and be more rational.

I don't take any criticism/critique well at first. I have my emotional reaction and beat myself up extremely easily and or get defensive extremely easily but if it is from a friend- I will take it seriously and ponder it but if it is also from a friend they will know how I am and make sure that they balance a "knock down" or a negative with a "lifting up" comment and positive reassuring statement along with the criticism or critique.

I was the type of kid and still am in a metaphorical sense where for every spanking or scolding I needed 30 hugs and warm fuzzies,lol.

:yes:
 

GZA

Resident Snot-Nose
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,771
MBTI Type
infp
I usually try to consider if they are right, and then try to take responsibility if they are ("You're right, I'm sorry, I'll work on that") and I'll try to improve. If I disagree, I'll either tell them I disagree, or just walk away and feel bad...
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
If it's constructive criticism of, like, an essay I've written for a class, I don't mind.

Otherwise, if I want your opinion, I'll give it to you.

Edit: I just read the rest of Ladypinkington's post. Ugh! I know what you mean about the getting into trouble thing. When my youngest son started Kindergarten, I went into the school for the first few days to try to help him get a feel for what he was supposed to do when he first got there and one day it was a crazy morning and I hadn't signed in and put my visitor tag on. One of the teachers called me down on it and the way she did it wasn't very nice or friendly. I was so angry and humiliated. I was thirty-something and I had to really clamp down on myself in order to keep from crying.
 

shen

New member
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
129
MBTI Type
ENFP
critisism

...if they call me a bitch, i take it rather well :devil:



sadly..... thats not true:cry:
 

Ivy

Strongly Ambivalent
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
23,989
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INFP
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6
Somebody called me a bitch today and it was the best compliment I got all day. :D
 

shen

New member
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Sep 27, 2007
Messages
129
MBTI Type
ENFP
by that time me dear....its no longer visible:run: meep meep......
 

niffer

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Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,217
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ENfP
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8w9
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Depends on what they are criticizing. If they are criticizing what I do, and they seem to make a good point, I take it as a wake-up call and make a note to myself to fix it. And then I'll take that criticism and try to see if it can be applied to other aspects of my life in any way, and if they can be then I'll just keep those thoughts with me and do what I can about my behaviour.

If I find what they are saying is incorrect, or misinterpreted, then I'll talk to them about the faults in their criticism and explain to them my motives/method/whatever they happened to criticize.

Sometimes, though, people can be hostile to you and be accurately critical of you to show you their disapproval of your character. In that way, it is kind of like what BW decribes as an "attack". First and foremost in cases like these, I would note their hostility and mentally prepare and guard myself as much as possible. There is usually no point in trying to improve on what they have pointed out, unless they are mechanical errors or the like.

If people criticize who I am, then I will alter my ways depending on how much I value them, or how much I value the aspect of myself after taking into account the logic of their criticism. In these cases though, it is hard to look for the accuracy of their criticisms. I usually just mull it over and experiment around with their ideas of altering myself.
 

Vortex

New member
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
277
MBTI Type
WOLF
I've always hated criticism in the extreme because it's always felt like a personal attack. In the last few years I've tried to work quite a lot on taking it as something objective instead. Now I'm at the point where I'm comfortable if my driving teacher points out to me that I should do something differently or if a teacher disagrees with me. I still try to avoid situations where I might be critizised, though. I'll get really upset if I'm shouted at and avoid verbal fights like the plague. I think I'm much more willing to explore criticism now than I've been before, which probably stems from being a bit more comfortable in my skin and comfortable with my decisions than I used to be. Or maybe I've just gotten better at seeing criticism for what it really is.
 

findthejake

New member
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Sep 30, 2007
Messages
258
MBTI Type
ENFP
I take it black, maybe some sugar and cream if I don't know the person very well....
 

wildcat

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Jun 8, 2007
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3,622
MBTI Type
INTP
For me criticism means one of two things.

I always analyze what they say from an impersonal angle and then discover that either..

The critic correctly pointed out a flaw in my performance/character, I appreciate them giving me an opportunity for personal growth

or the critic made a false claim and then I just dismiss them and move on.

What does criticism mean to NFs, and what are your most natural reactions to the aforementioned. I'd like to hear from NFPs especially.
Criticism has two hands.

Does the one hand know of the other?
 

CzeCze

RETIRED
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Depends --

I disagree that ENFPS are warm and fuzzy and FRAGILE.

I'm very objective and know that most people mean well when they critique. I take constructive criticism very well and indeed seek out the truth from others. Most of the time, I can totally take it and use it to progress things. 99% of things people tell me as far as feedback I've already thought of and acknolwedge the merits (or not) of that POV or point.

HOWEVER 3 cases where I do NOT take criticism well

1) The person giving it is frankly being a total bitch. They are NOT trying to be helpful they are trying to tear you down.

I have only experienced this in the corporate world where you are encouraged to be fake and cuthroat assholes and tear each other apart under the acceptable guise of 'constructive feedback' and reaching very TJ goals of meeting your objectives and SJ goals of 'serving the client and stockholders' and 'having a duty to' etc. etc. etc.

I found a lot of "feedback" in that environment to be unduly harsh and completely NOT helpful as people did not bother to explain themselves other than to say, YOU SUCK i.e. I AM BETTER THAN YOU.

Aside from the division director most people critiquing me were my COMPETITION who ironically were also my team members who just wanted to tear someone down to make themselves look better and have a scapegoat.

Which brings me to

2) If the criticism comes from someone who I do NOT respect either because I clearly see their 'hidden' agenda OR because I acknowledge my superiority or expertise in the subject matter and basically know that I know more than them. This is not necessarily egomaniacal or having a chip on my shoulder (but I know that this could easily become a defense mechanism for those who lack confidence). You don't have to be an 'expert' for me to respct you and I acknowledge that I can learn from anyone anytime, but for the most part, if I don't respect you as say a performer, I totally am going to ignore any suggestion you have for me to perfect my craft. Because I've already seen your craft and NO THANK YOU I don't want to emulate it.

All this is compounded if they

3) Have a superior belittling attitude and NO reason to. I am a really open-minded, tolerant person, but I cannot STAND mediocre sucky people who are full of themselves i.e act like rock star assholes and god's gift to ___ when in fact they are too stupid and talentless to realize that they are stupid and talentless. OR that the only thing going for them is an abrasive, unpleasant personality which is NOT to be confused with expertise or skill. Or they are desperately clawing and rasping their way to the top and basically talking out of their asses ALL THE TIME because they must constantly overcompensate and try so hard to convince those around them that they are in charge that it's pretty transparent and frankly embarassing for them. I am sympathetic to mediocrity, but not if it is accompanied by a total lack of self-awareness (which in art terms means you have NO EYE, NO TALENT, and NO HOPE IN HELL) I also feel if you are truly gifted or born rich/priveleged you should be HUMBLE because it is a GIFT and you are BLESSED and you are lucky in that you can see your true place in the world more than others.

Conclusion:
Wow...this turned out to be much more harsh than I intended. I'm a T cusp if that helps...

And I swear, I'm a humble open-minded person who appreciated the opportunity to grow and learn through other people.

Except for when those three things above are reached to a T. Then, MY GOD, I become an _STJ.

HA HA HA HA.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
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Apr 23, 2007
Messages
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INTP
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5w6
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so/sx
If the criticism comes from someone who I do NOT.

If you are truly objective, you will only focus on what is said. Who it came from should not matter.



2)
respect either because I clearly see their 'hidden' agenda.
You do not respect the person because he has a hidden agenda, and not because his statements lack merit? That is an ad hominem logical fallacy. Since he lacks integrity, because you know he has a hidden agenda (therefore is insincere), and because of this character defect of his, his statement must be rejected. This is an error in reasoning because you claim that the statement is to be rejected without showing how it leads to falsehood.



OR because I acknowledge my superiority or expertise in the subject matter and basically know that I know more than them..

It should not matter if you're better than them or not, how good they are is irrelevant it only matters what they say. Imagine an expert mechanic training a teenager. He shows the boy a chart on how a car is to be constructed and then himself misses one detail. The boy looks at the chart and notices the detail the mechanic missed, and points it out to him. Does it mean that since the boy has less skill than a mechanic, he therefore is not capable of pointing out an error that he commited? That is a palpable falsehood, as we both see that statement A(propounded by mechanic) is contravened by statement B (propounded by the boy). We do not need to note that the statement B was propounded by the boy to notice that it is epistemically superior than statement A. Hence, this supports my previous claim that knowledge of the author of the claim is irrelevant. Only the claim itself is relevant.


You don't have to be an 'expert' for me to respct you..
Your opinion of the person is not relevant when it comes to the assessment of soundness of the propounded criticism.

..but for the most part, if I don't respect you as say a performer, I totally am going to ignore any suggestion you have for me to perfect my craft. Because I've already seen your craft and NO THANK YOU I don't want to emulate it.

See the example of an amateur mechanic pointing out the error of an expert mechanic.


All this is compounded if they

3) Have a superior attitude and NO reason to. I am a really open-minded, tolerant person, but I cannot STAND mediocre sucky people who are full of themselves i.e too stupid and talentless to realize that they have no talent and are mediocre and actually think they have talent OR they are desperately clawing and rasping to the top and basically talking out of their asses because they must constantly be bombastic and act like they are in charge.

..again, people who are shitty writers talkng like experts on 'grammar' (dude, grammar is DEAD, no one is an 'expert' on American English grammar0 and picking at ONE sentence for the grammar which is actually CORRECT. Then I read their project which is FULL of grammatical errors and spelling mistakes. OMG, this peeves me.

Quality of one's writings should not be assessed in terms of one's adherence to the grammatical convention.

Quality of writing should be assessed in terms of one's ability to express thoughts as faithfully to what one has had in mind as possible.

Writing is mere expression. People often would say Charles Dickens is a good writer because he wrote compelling literature that has had a profound impact worldwide. They are not praising his writing, they are merely praising his ideas. It was not the way he wrote that moved people, but what he wrote. One can be a good thinker and a bad writer. Dostoevsky is the case in point. Brothers Karamazov, The Idiot, Crime and Punishment, Notes From Underground should be considered to be among the supreme literature known to man. Yet, they were indeed poorly written. Dostoevksy notoriously broke all rules of punctuation and his thoughts followed in radically idiosyncratic patterns. Not only was it difficult to understand what he was saying because his punctuation made it difficult for one to see what he was focusing on, but also he was out of tune with the perceptions of his readers due to the discrepancies between what he expected his readers to perceive and what they truly tended to perceive after reading his statements.
 

CzeCze

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omg Blue Wing -- are you an (aspiring) lawyer? I have not had anyone point out an 'ad hominen' anything in my arguments before. People have called some things I say 'illogical' but don't get that specific.

I very much agree that points can be valid regardless of who it is coming from or even their agenda. There's a real danger in giving authority only to 'experts' and this kind of tactic is used to keep marginalized people down and invalidate detractors to anything and everything.

But, I think my NF also puts more weight onto the social impact of what is being said. This goes beyond politicking but yeah, in some situations admitting the other person is right is the same as "losing face" or getting one upped. So I enjoy debating for the sake of debating and have been told that I never admit I'm wrong.

I figure what's the point of admitting I'm wrong if everyone around me already acknowledges that I am and my admitting it or not has absolutely no material effect on the world around. It's more for fun and the sake of argument at that point and I've been told I never admit I'm wrong.

Arguing is fun and logic is subjective. You can argue any point and I think more than that, you can argue any point quite effectively.

P.S. Yes, on a very real level, I always think I'm right.

This drives my NT friends and family BATTY.
 

CzeCze

RETIRED
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I usually try to consider if they are right, and then try to take responsibility if they are ("You're right, I'm sorry, I'll work on that") and I'll try to improve. If I disagree, I'll either tell them I disagree, or just walk away and feel bad...

God -- you are SO NICE!

I almost feel bad that anyone would take anything I said this seriously! --> I laugh, but I'm serious.

I would be really careful if I knew you were like this to give you only the most refined kernels of feedback and tell you "you're awesome -- but"
 
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