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[ENFP] ENFP-When is it safe for Fi to come out?

sculpting

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So my older son is 13 and due to very poor coordination and being ADHD gets some special accomadations at school. Basically he can type papers rather than have to write them all by hand.

Every so often they redo the IQ tests and psych evals, and I had a meeting yesterday with the psychologist and teachers just to review results.

The psych's first concern was his lack of "depth". For someone of his IQ she expected him to show more intellectual depth. The example was she asked him three wishes. Instead of world peace or ending hunger, he asked for 1) the goldfish to come back to life (we never had a goldfish) 2) the cat to come back to life (car-cat interaction went badly) 3) for it to snow in Texas during the winter. I thought these were hysterically funny myself but she said they showed lack of depth.

She also said that he "doesnt understand his own emotions". She based this on the observation that whenever she asked him about things that had an emotional context he would make a joke out of them or detour the conversation around the emotional context onto something else.

I looked at her like she was a little slow, as it is obvious to me that as an ENFP, he doesnt trust her with his emotions. Why would you expose that raw Fi core to a total stranger?

Questions:

1) Is this an generic ENFP and INFP thing to do? ie hide that core away?
2) If so why are we so insecure about letting others see it?
 

alcea rosea

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So my older son is 13 and due to very poor coordination and being ADHD gets some special accomadations at school. Basically he can type papers rather than have to write them all by hand.

Every so often they redo the IQ tests and psych evals, and I had a meeting yesterday with the psychologist and teachers just to review results.

The psych's first concern was his lack of "depth". For someone of his IQ she expected him to show more intellectual depth. The example was she asked him three wishes. Instead of world peace or ending hunger, he asked for 1) the goldfish to come back to life (we never had a goldfish) 2) the cat to come back to life (car-cat interaction went badly) 3) for it to snow in Texas during the winter. I thought these were hysterically funny myself but she said they showed lack of depth.

She also said that he "doesnt understand his own emotions". She based this on the observation that whenever she asked him about things that had an emotional context he would make a joke out of them or detour the conversation around the emotional context onto something else.

I looked at her like she was a little slow, as it is obvious to me that as an ENFP, he doesnt trust her with his emotions. Why would you expose that raw Fi core to a total stranger?

Questions:

1) Is this an generic ENFP and INFP thing to do? ie hide that core away?
2) If so why are we so insecure about letting others see it?
Yes. Because it's like exposing yourself naked in front of others.

Fi comes out when it's safe environment with trusted people.

Remember also that he is still young and his personality and traits are developing. According to the theory, the second function develops during 10-20 years old. So, he might be just developing his Fi, if the theory has any reality based stuff in it.
 

nomadic

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The psych's first concern was his lack of "depth". For someone of his IQ she expected him to show more intellectual depth. The example was she asked him three wishes. Instead of world peace or ending hunger, he asked for 1) the goldfish to come back to life (we never had a goldfish) 2) the cat to come back to life (car-cat interaction went badly) 3) for it to snow in Texas during the winter. I thought these were hysterically funny myself but she said they showed lack of depth.

She also said that he "doesnt understand his own emotions". She based this on the observation that whenever she asked him about things that had an emotional context he would make a joke out of them or detour the conversation around the emotional context onto something else.

I looked at her like she was a little slow, as it is obvious to me that as an ENFP, he doesnt trust her with his emotions. Why would you expose that raw Fi core to a total stranger?

Questions:

1) Is this an generic ENFP and INFP thing to do? ie hide that core away?
2) If so why are we so insecure about letting others see it?

yeah ur son is just f-cking with her. haha

she's prolly mad bc she knows he's f-cking iwth her, so to scare u is her way of getting back at him, in some weird way. but i think its one of those things where the person will never admit thats what they were really thinking.

just tell ur son to stop f-cking with her, and apologize or something. then magically he'll probably get a good recommendation from her.
 

Udog

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Therapist sounds like she has a stick up her butt. I mean, I need to ask for world peace to show depth? Talk about cliche.

1) Is this an generic ENFP and INFP thing to do? ie hide that core away?
2) If so why are we so insecure about letting others see it?

1) Yes.
2) My values are my core. Sharing them makes me incredibly vulnerable, and if I feel the other person is overly judgmental or stands 0% chance of getting it, I'll simply pass. I'm guessing your son saw through her and decided not to play her game.
 

Lady_X

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So my older son is 13 and due to very poor coordination and being ADHD gets some special accomadations at school. Basically he can type papers rather than have to write them all by hand.

Every so often they redo the IQ tests and psych evals, and I had a meeting yesterday with the psychologist and teachers just to review results.

The psych's first concern was his lack of "depth". For someone of his IQ she expected him to show more intellectual depth. The example was she asked him three wishes. Instead of world peace or ending hunger, he asked for 1) the goldfish to come back to life (we never had a goldfish) 2) the cat to come back to life (car-cat interaction went badly) 3) for it to snow in Texas during the winter. I thought these were hysterically funny myself but she said they showed lack of depth.

She also said that he "doesnt understand his own emotions". She based this on the observation that whenever she asked him about things that had an emotional context he would make a joke out of them or detour the conversation around the emotional context onto something else.

I looked at her like she was a little slow, as it is obvious to me that as an ENFP, he doesnt trust her with his emotions. Why would you expose that raw Fi core to a total stranger?

Questions:

1) Is this an generic ENFP and INFP thing to do? ie hide that core away?
2) If so why are we so insecure about letting others see it?

yep...i joke or change the subject too unless i feel like i can trust them...even then i'd rather not talk about it.
 

scattershot

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Instead of world peace or ending hunger, he asked for 1) the goldfish to come back to life (we never had a goldfish) 2) the cat to come back to life (car-cat interaction went badly) 3) for it to snow in Texas during the winter. I thought these were hysterically funny myself but she said they showed lack of depth.

Those are awesome. :laugh:

I probably would have done the same thing just to mess with her. But even if I was answering seriously, I doubt I would ever wish for world peace or to end hunger. Those are such cliched, hippie-sounding answers. That seems kinda weird that she's using that question to demonstrate your son's emotional or intellectual depth.

I'd also hide my Fi unless I had a reason to show my innermost feelings to someone. A school psychiatrist would probably not be someone I'd show that to, unless I specifically requested to see them because I was struggling. Also, I'd guess that a 13 year-old male wouldn't want to show a lot of emotion to a stranger, even if he is an ENFP.
 

Wild horses

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This woman has lost the plot... I wonder what recommendations she has from her Psych!....Anyway, sorry.... Ok so he asked for his dead cat to come back to life.... Ressurection... how deep does she wanna get!

As for talking through feelings... no i don't really do that either... Life is hard and tough and sad and all that... and I think that you have to learn to laugh at it... It's not that we don't understand our emotions.... we do very much so... We understand that they are painful and so we say... yea ok I do feel like crap... Lets make a joke about the fact cos there's nothing I can do to change it!
 

Winds of Thor

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First of all, I don't know the answer to 1 or 2..

I will say, though, for a 13 year-old I think his statements show depth. They require a level of thinking and are certainly original!
 

Nonsensical

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I'm not a strong ENFP, so my Fi comes out quite a bit, when I'm at home or by myself usually, I am more INFP. I am energized easily around friends, but not so much aquantences or people I don't know. My ENFP comes out around friends and family.
 

Lady_X

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yeah, i like his answers too. i think i'd just tell the counselor person that i thought they were great and wasn't concerned...but thanks anyway.
 

BlueScreen

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she said they showed lack of depth.

She also said that he "doesnt understand his own emotions".

Did she mention these things to you, or with him there? Because if she said them with him there it is really poor form, and she probably needs a new career path.

Also, his answers are honest and in touch with what he wants. And he's 13, what was she expecting?
 

Lady_X

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proteanmix

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Questions:

1) Is this an generic ENFP and INFP thing to do? ie hide that core away?
2) If so why are we so insecure about letting others see it?

happy puppy I really like this example you've given. I don't think only (N)FPs do this though. I've noticed that generally when you talk to people and start getting into the personal arena before the person feels they've sufficiently sussed you out they tend to start clamming up or misdirecting. I do that myself. The insecurity is that people don't know how their deeply held beliefs, feelings, or values will be received. If they are ridiculed or mocked that's hurtful. Most people aren't willing to open themselves up to that and rightfully so. It's open heart surgery without anesthesia. I have found it helpful to reveal low-stakes things about myself as a prompt and if the person wants to continue further then go with it. You've really got to feel these things out and I'd think a psychologist would know that, but maybe not.

You're right he probably didn't trust her with his feelings, but I've also noticed that many adults don't know what they're feeling or why they're feeling it. All they know is they feel it. Sometimes it takes years for a person to figure out why they've felt the way they have over one life episode so it's not surprising that a 13 y.o. doesn't know.

I would ask your son's counselor what sort of emotional development is typical in boys his age and how is he deviating from that. Then I'd ask what are the standards for deviation, but then she'd probably stop wanting to talk to me after that. :rolleyes:
 

Tiny Army

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I agree completely. None of my brothers knew how they felt at 13. Hell most of them still don't know how they feel.


I believe that my own Fi is broken somehow. It is almost like I feel everything twice as strongly but handle it twice as badly. All my emotions end up twisting up inside me and I crack jokes to ease my anxiety. I used to fuck with the counselors at my secondary school.



Edit: Not that I'm saying your son's Fi is broken. I just reckoned that most adolescent boys with Fi have no handle on it on account of hormones and that it sucks to be an adolescent boy.
 

alcea rosea

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I've noticed that generally when you talk to people and start getting into the personal arena before the person feels they've sufficiently sussed you out they tend to start clamming up or misdirecting.

This is a very good point: misdirecting. I do it very well in IRL. ;)

And then I know that people think they know me (because I can tell lots of stuff about myself and my family) but actually they don't know me at all. Deep inside I mean. I think nobody knows it but only few, including me, I think :thinking:.
:laugh:
 

IEE623

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Hehhhh I like your son ;)

The teacher just tries to change him to her expectations. From what I see, she's the one showing the lack of depth ;) She deserves a joke.
 

heart

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The psych's first concern was his lack of "depth". For someone of his IQ she expected him to show more intellectual depth. The example was she asked him three wishes. Instead of world peace or ending hunger, he asked for 1) the goldfish to come back to life (we never had a goldfish) 2) the cat to come back to life (car-cat interaction went badly) 3) for it to snow in Texas during the winter. I thought these were hysterically funny myself but she said they showed lack of depth.

Good grief, he's only 13! :shock: Anyway how can it be shallow for 13-year-old to want a beloved cat to come back to life?

She also said that he "doesnt understand his own emotions". She based this on the observation that whenever she asked him about things that had an emotional context he would make a joke out of them or detour the conversation around the emotional context onto something else.

As a early teen I would have simply refused to answer the question, not even made any jokes. I would have known how I felt, but exposing it would have felt like a raw nerve and I distrusted others totally. School can be a hard time.

It is like this person doesn't understand teenagers.
 

CrystalViolet

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What was your impression of the psych, just out of curiousity?
World peace, blah, blah...text book answers. I'd probably answer like that too, just for a laugh. Maybe the psych lacked the emotional depth to know she was being screwed with?
I don't know the whole thing just rings of the psych being a little shallow, or unable to bend, and certainly unable to deal with teenagers. It's like she read in a book that's how a person should act when they are this and that, and gets miffed when they don't meet her expectation instantly. I mean it's not like she can take back his IQ score is it?
 

CzeCze

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You know this is so interesting to hear from other ENFPs - do other people also tell you that you are very good at being evasive and sneaky? A very small handful of people in my life (people very close to me or who spend an intensive amount of time with me) have told me this, but most folks in my life don't ever catch on. In fact, it's only gotten me 'in trouble' in romantic relationships where the expectations for intimacy and authenticity is much greater.

Alcea, I also tell a lot of stories and talk very openly about myself, but I also consider myself to be 'pathologically secretive'. It used to be much, much worse and linked to insecurity and even anxiety but as I've gotten older and better integrated, I still have my secretiveness. Some stuff is just for me and I disclose carefully.

When I was 10-13 though I was very open. I probably would have given more typical answers in earnest. I didn't get secretive until ths heights of puberty ('cause you know, life gets so much harder then and you have to develop a lot more self-protective mechanisms!)

When is it safe for Fi to come out?

As someone who again, used to be extremely protective and actively mistrusful and fearful of the world in regards to my Fi and my 'real self' (in enneatypes, the 6 wing means I'm counter/phobic and basically "vigilant" about the potential dangers in the world) I would say the more core confidence you build about your ability to stand your ground and 'be safe' - the more forthcoming you become.

So in terms of MBT - maybe the more Te/Ti/Fe you develop, basically the better support your other functions give you, the more you come out of your excellently camoflouged shell. That and experience exposing yourself, for better or worse.

Some people might call it simple confidence but it's more specific to how well you think you can 1) defend yourself 2) fit in with your kooky Fi and 3) be okay regardless of how others react to your Fi 4) be with the world.

The last one is a doozy and takes some long term core work and growth depending on how strong your Fi is and how sensitive/protective/fearful you are.

At least for me! :)
 

Xellotath

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I hid mine for a very long time.
I still do.

I've never encountered the "perfect" situation in which to expose Fi, even among friends and family.

For all its feelings that "this is right" "this is who I am", Fi is incredibly destructive to the immediate social atmosphere. After an outburst, no matter how right it felt, no matter the beauty and clarity and inspirational-value of my point of view... I end up hating myself for what I caused.

It's frustrating. Having an eye on the social fabric, being so careful and mindful of other's feelings, dancing around their words and anticipating meaning in order to not hurt them... only to see this tranquil air being totally poisonned by my own actual feelings.

I know this is my core. I know that it feels right.
Yet my thinking says "You're not -always- right".
And I hate it when my intellect is right.

By the time I snap out of it, it's always too late. The other person is mentally exhausted from having debated me, as a relative once said "debating with you, is like debating all the random imagination in the world. You'll invent some detail and hang on to it".

I've grown in a rather bizarre way. I've become far less extraverted over the years.
I work very hard at suppressing myself. To the extent, that yesterday I backstabbed one my friends while being totally conscious of it. Having everything in me screaming "This is wrong! This is so wrong!" was nothing short of brutal. If this was me from 5 years ago, I would have done absolutely everything in my power to avoid this. My -fundamental integrity- was at stake.

I waited a few hours (horrible couple of hours) after the event, and wow.. more context came in, ultimately freeing me of my charges - and reinforcing my new shiny emotional security system that say "Xel, you're always wrong - don't go with your feelings."

[ same disclaimer as always: sorry if you can't relate, Xel has a clinical mental illness. ]
 
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