[INFJ] Songwriting

[MrRandom]

INFJs are supposedly excellent writers. I consider it one of my strengths. No matter if the writing is creative, technical, personal... you name it. However, there's one kind of writing I'm having extreme troubles with: songwriting. I've been composing music for a long time, but I've never made a song with lyrics to it. It's something I've been wishing to do for a long time.

Can you help me realize why is it so difficult for me? Essentially songwriting is not much different from other creative writing. That's the rational approach. However, something is blocking me as soon as I try to get started. I always start to second-guess myself, I become too perfectionistic (nothing's ever good enough), I fear about writing immature clichés, and I suddenly feel like I have nothing to say (although the exact opposite is true!). I feel helpless.

If I'd be able to write songs, they'd be kind of NiFe stuff. NF stuff. Obviously. The kind of things that I'm thinking about all the time.

I recently read a funny thing about INFJs: they tend to collect so much extra data, that they can't verbalize what they've learned anymore! I've been in that very position so often, that I burst out laughing when I read that. It's so true. I overdo my data gathering so much that, when suddenly needed, I don't even know where to begin expressing my chaotic mess of newly acquired heaps of arbitrarily related data. I'm not sure if that made any sense, but it made me wonder if I'm having the same problem with songwriting: I have so much to say, that I don't even know where to begin... and I can't stick to only one theme per song... and so on. I just can't get anything onto paper.

Just for the fun of it, I've done some improvised singing with a friend. We play the piano and sing on top of it any silly stuff that comes into our mind. They are, essentially, songs too... even if they are only silly songs. So, at least this way I'm able to produce lyrics... When I don't even really try! When I'm trying to put conscious effort into an actual, serious song, absolutely nothing happens. It's weird. I suppose it tells me I'm my own worst critic.

I'd appreciate any comments. You don't have to be a musical person to contribute, as this is just about creative writing. How would you NFs approach songwriting? Other types are welcome to contribute too, of course.

 

[blanclait]

does this mean you can't even write poems?

 

[MrRandom]

I suppose it does.

Now that you made me think about it, I find it hard to define what is a poem anyhow. I suppose I could put some words together, but it might be such a bad poem that people wouldn't consider it a poem at all? Or am I being too self-critical again? Is it a poem if I simply say it is a poem?

I think my dominant Ni is working here... trying to understand the defined terms and their limits. I could, of course, from the top of my head write a crappy song that made no sense at all. I'm trying to understand why writing a song with actual thought put into it makes all the difference in my writing attitude (that is, making me unable to do it).

 

[superkumquat]

Sometimes I write songs... or try anyways and I have to write the lyrics first, as more of a poem. When I try to think of the lyrics and the music at the same time I go into overload and get stuck. I just write my thoughts down, not trying to fit them into any kind of form or anything, and then come up with the melody completely separately. I end up with a bunch of little ideas I like and a bunch of little tunes I like and I take those and fit them together. When I try to come up with it all at once, I always feel like it has to be perfect and I get nowhere.

Also, just with writing in general i guess, writing a lot helps me get over being 'scared' of writing down what I'm thinking. I took a creative writing class once and the teacher had us carry around a notebook everywhere and write down everything. Just thoughts and little stories, dreams, poems, whatever. It really helped me to not be so intimidated by the blank sheet of paper

 

[Glycerine]

I would suggest free-writing and then formulate your ideas into a song. I think Ni users have the tendency to overthink things which leads to writer's block.

 

[Nonsensical]

I can't express anything by physical means- writing poetry, stories, music, or whatever. I can express emotions and feelings, probably, the best way by playing music..but I can't write anything or put words to emotions- which is one of my weeknesses- I have a hard time expressing my emotions in conventional ways..they just pour out in waves of bliss.

 

[blanclait]

don't label, categorize, analyze or try to define anything at all.

Just write. Don't critique the process until it is absolutely finished.

this is what i do when i'm designing.

 

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Yup.. Honestly, anything that you create will be awesome.... its all about writing what you want to... Its pretty hard not to critique yourself, but I think its great to put that aside and make a masterpiece.

 

[MrME]

I also write. It's currently a hobby, but I am writing to get published or produced.

I have never been able to write poetry or song lyrics. I try too hard to make it seem "deep." I fill my poems and lyrics with so many metaphors that in the end it seems strained and convoluted.

I also compare my stuff to insanely good lyricists like Leonard Cohen, Tom Waits, P.J. Harvey, Neko Case, etc. I always fall short, and I should know better by now, heh!

So, I just stick to fiction.

 

[ajblaise]

It's a lot easier to criticize lyrics than it is to criticize rhythms and melody. Perhaps that is why lyric writing takes a bit more humility to be able to do. I find it to be almost separate from actual music. When lyrics come into the picture, there are words, ideas, stories, feelings... trying to be expressed. And to put that to a beat and often make it rhyme, it can sound a bit contrived.

 

[Apollanaut]

To echo some of the above comments, it sounds like you are over-analysing when it comes to songwriting. To get back on track you need to engage your Feeling functions. I suggest you first do something really enjoyable to get yourself into the right frame of mind, then just write down what comes naturally in a free-form, flowing stream of lyrics. Complete the song first, then go back and make any desired edits, or better yet, get someone whose opinion you value to look at it for you. This will allow your Fe function to contribute to the process. Not much will happen until you give yourself the freedom to work in this way, I suspect.

 

[niki]

this is also exactly my difficulties!
for some unknown reason, I've always had it verry easy when it comes to composing melody, even the entire arrangements down to the details! be it pop, rock, symphony, etc.
but when it comes to lyrics, i've always got stuck.
so i can relate with the OP here, i often have such overwhelming emotions, but it's really hard to put 'em into rhyming sentences, more especially , to fit them with my tunes (I tend to finish the music 1st, 'cuz it comes very easily to me) ! and hence, unfinished songs (unfinished lyrics)

i've asked many people, and they mostly agree that first, what i need is just to brainstorm & free-write first. and then afterwards, I can fit my ideas into the rhyming structure for the tunes i've composed.
but what does that really mean?
does that mean for each song, i need to write ANYthing in a blank sheet of paper (or 1-2pages of book) ? and then afterwards, modify, and write the 'finished' form on the 3rd page?

how about your usual methods of writing lyrics, guys? (do you guys make it in a 'special lyrics' book, page-per-page? or in sheets of papers? or how?)
can you share?

 

[BerberElla]

You've fallen into the same trap I have:

Writer's block is caused primarily by one thing: judging your writing before or as you write. If you have perfectionist tendencies, then writing may be particularly difficult for you. What is essential for you to keep in mind is that writing is a process, and a process takes time. If you expect what you write to come out perfectly in the first draft then you will be plagued by writer's block your whole life. The first draft is called a rough draft for the very reason that it is a piece of writing yet unformed. Your job, as de Maupassant advised, is to "get black on white." And contrary to what many people think, you don't have to know what you want to say or even what you want to write about before you begin writing. As a writer your initial job is to find out what you know and what you don't. C.Day Lewis said "We do not write in order to be understood, we write in order to understand." The way you begin writing is to try some prewriting activities.

Really good way of looking at it here.

One Solution

A way to think about writing is to imagine that there are three parts of your personality that have to get involved before any writing project is finished. Let's call these three entities the

Inventor
Reader
Editor​

Writer's block occurs when the Editor part of you and the Inventor part of you try to work on a piece of writing at the same time. The Inventor part of you revved up about an writing idea and the editor part of you is being critical, maybe even taunting you about not articulating your idea well enough, (or if you have a really mean editor, he'll tell you that it's not a good idea anyway) and he'll point out your problems with grammar, or spelling or syntax. These two parts of your personality must be separated if you are to write well. The Editor, who is the task master, needs to be put out in the hall to wait his turn. You need the Editor, but not until later. Having the Editor in the room the same time you're working with the Creator in you is like trying to shower and get dressed at the same time without getting wet. Impossible!

I suffer from this same problem, essentially the only way to move beyond this is to write regardless of editing, to NOT evaluate your own work yourself because the perfectionist side of you will be far beyond the normal level of critique you would recieve from a professional editor or an honest friend.

I know the link revolves around writing as in book writing, but as you said (and I agree) song writing works off the same premise.

 

[BlueScreen]

don't label, categorize, analyze or try to define anything at all.

I agree. Write until the wall you put up vanishes, and you have a clear line between your thoughts and the paper. When words start flowing naturally from your brain.

Ni works differently to Ne, but it is still intuitive. If you can get that intuitive process in a comfort zone where all those deep thoughts come out, they should come out well. And the more you write, the better your intuition will get at it.

Also write them for no one, and to show no one, as a start. Then nothing like making an impression will cloud it.

 

[the state i am in]

i'm going thru the same thing. if i start with this expectation of a finished product, i'm always disappointed. if i have more of a design mentality, and allow the coherency and intelligence to just emerge out of extremely SMALL decisions and gestures, it comes together in a way that is, at least, something.

i can free-write and call myself a beat poet, but i'm still figuring out what kind of intermediate steps to take to produce something of more wide-ranging value to others. right now i say i'm just practicing, with the hope that one day i will look back and realize the value and meaning i so desperately wanted to uncover, has slowly but surely infiltrated my writing when i wasn't looking and being too dave eggers self-conscious.

 

[MrRandom]

Thanks guys. I got a lot of encouragement and useful tips. It's definitely a writer's a block, but not for long. I'll get past it. Thanks for the links too.