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[MBTI General] the problem with money..

niki

New member
Joined
Sep 16, 2007
Messages
210
MBTI Type
INFP
the thing that I've found ironic & bothersome about 'money' is actually of how society are using it.
i agree, money by itself is just a tool.
it's just a mere paper with green-printed numbers on it. a formation of particles, molecules. nothing more.
but the problem is , as usual, the People, who've created the 'system' .

The sad truth that i've always found is how the 'system' only seems to allow certain type of people to get very rich & succesful.
For example, people who just love doing business, or people who just love the rat-race.
But for the vast majority of 'creative' people, or 'highly-sensitive' people, sometimes, or often, our minds and hearts are actually not in the money, but rather in somewhere else. For example: in creating arts, in helping people, consoling people, in sharing laughter,..basically all the 'abstract immeasurable' things.

And i've observed that, for these type of people, unfortunately, money doesn't come that easily.
For example, blatantly speaking, we all know that creating arts, helping & counseling people just doesn't create big money, as compared to working in stock market, or Finance institutions, or building a manufacture or factory, or working in oil company, stuff like that.

and that's where the 'problems' seem to come: people (or society, at large generally) start comparing. and seeing those who don't excel in money-making as "not succesful" enough, or "doesn't do any 'real' stuff", or "being spoiled" , etc etc.

And that's honestly what made me a bit hating the concept of 'money' , sometimes even to a point where i've just asked myself "does this world really need money so much, to continue living in day-to-day basis? will it ever comes the time where Money won't be the major-determinant in everything? and perhaps, people can share with each other? or invent other 'system' , by being high-aware & sensitive?"
or perhaps I'm just talking mumble-jumble & B.S ..

Or maybe I just hate how this world (& society) operates generally..
I don't know..
I've realized that I've might just rambling here..
and perhaps even I don't 'deserve' to talk like this, since I'm still living in a relatively 'safe & secure' environment.. which makes me like a damn 'spoiled brat' for talking like this (?)
but I can't help to feel like this sometimes, feeling how 'cruel' our society has become nowadays, all just for that small-little green thing called : Money.

what do u guys think on this topic?
let's share & discuss.
 

nozflubber

DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,078
MBTI Type
Hype
Money is a tool indeed, but it is also a projection of how much VALUE human beings ascribe to an object, things or activity. It's a direct physical result of our commercial nature....

This means, as you pointed out, that some will get more money than others, because we don't value all human activities to be the same. This is where a lot of frustration comes into play, ESPECIALLY for NFs because it's hard to see why things shouldn't be equal. Like it or not, what Carnegie and Gates did for the world is worth (money-wise anyway) much more to humankind than the artist down the street making oil paintings, or the philisophy student trying to work his way out of Descarte's dream hypothesis.
 

blanclait

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
305
MBTI Type
ENTP
Well...

Usually money is payed higher according to # of people actually being capable of performing that task.

Many people can cook burgers, so they offer like $8
not many can make a program so they offer $x.xx


You see volunteer, arts, music, etc. ANYONE can do it.
But, not anyone can treat a patient, or create a software.

But those who can actually can do arts counsel extremly well can make ALOT of money. So i don't see what's really wrong about it.


Or is this about some temperaments not exactly set up for society's ideal personality. therefore you think its unfair that ESTJ can earn alot more easily due to carrying personality that is suited for the average job? Opposed to NF?
 

Skyward

Badoom~
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
1,084
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
9w1
I agree with the above, dont forget that SFPs have the same problem as NFs in the economy. Ts seem to have it easier since they like working out problems and constructing logical ideas/things that make humanity move smooth(er). A lot of high-end paying jobs are very competitive.

ENTJs running a business? Its almost like running an army against another army. Trying to absorb other businesses into theirs, making it grow.

ETPs and the stock market? Lots of manipulation and hunches/luck go into being good at that. It can get very fast paced.

Just a couple hypotheses/guesses/examples.

NFs have the 'people' niche. Too bad most of the jobs in that niche are to the downtrodden. financially depressed, et c. not for rich people or for the whooole population like megacorperations/inventions/medical firms are.


Another thing is that NFs are more like the oil that keeps the gears from shredding each other. We can help smooth out people-problems, crusade for human rights (Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr. ) We are the ones that lash out against injustice/control.

I wonder what would happen if all the NFs went to some other planet for a couple decades/generations...

[/ramble]
 

Nonsensical

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
4,006
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7
The majority of conflict arises for the desire of money, or power- which also can mean money..

Money is a disease.
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
3,166
MBTI Type
INFP
I feel similar kind of frustration... It isn't so much about money, it is more about the inequality nozflubber referred to. Long story short, the market and I, we have different values... It seems like the market is taking the society into a wrong direction and there is very little anyone can do.

Money rules through the feeling of insecurity. Lots of money means more security. Before money had this strong grip, there was always some limit to how secure you need to be, or can be. You have enough firewood and food to get through the winter and it is enough, it has to be enough since there isn't anything more you could have. But now it is never enough because, unlike food or wood, money doesn't go bad. So, we hoard...
 

Chris_in_Orbit

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
504
MBTI Type
ESTJ
I don't get it...
You say creative and sensitive people don't make as much money but also say they usually don't care as much about money. I don't see the problem.
 

Anja

New member
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
2,967
MBTI Type
INFP
I think that a personal focus on material things is an empty one. We're told that all our lives -

You can't take it with you
Money doesn't buy happiness
A bird in the hand. . .
Root of all evil

And yet there are very few people who pay attention to those aphorisms. But they exist because there is truth in them.

Because the people who amass the most money are usually those with materialistic, rather than humanistic, values money is rarely spent in the way which would benefit the betterment of humankind.

Even when materialists envision gifts to humanity, their focus is limitted and the money is often applied for the wrong reasons or in the incorrect manner.

Two separate sets of values=two separate methods of evaluation of needs.

Why does the emphasis on materialistic gain win out over altruistic gain? Because the latter is an acquired taste which probably involves some measure of perceived deprivation. And human nature, being what it is, usually looks for the path of least resistance.
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
3,166
MBTI Type
INFP
I don't get it...
You say creative and sensitive people don't make as much money but also say they usually don't care as much about money. I don't see the problem.

Not caring about making money is one thing and getting food on the table is another. It is difficult to find a balance. For me the problem is that the career choices possible for me are limited as the only motivation for many jobs is only money. I want something more out of my work. So, because I don't care that much about money, I am more picky about the other aspects of work. These things are not appreciated that much so it is hard to make myself useful.
 

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,725
MBTI Type
infp
The problem with money is I never have enough of it. :newwink:
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
MBTI Type
YMCA
I was going to say the same.

The problem with money is that the government here is handing it out, and I don't qualify to get it, because I didn't earn enough to pay tax last year while studying. Hence I'm of the view that the poor and underprivileged deserve to get more in the government package :).
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
3,166
MBTI Type
INFP
The problem with money is that the government here is handing it out, and I don't qualify to get it, because I didn't earn enough to pay tax last year while studying.

So you were too poor last year and that means they don't give you what they give to others? That's strange... It's like an ultimatum: "Drop under this line and we will keep you poor!"
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
MBTI Type
YMCA
So you were too poor last year and that means they don't give you what they give to others? That's strange... It's like an ultimatum: "Drop under this line and we will keep you poor!"

It's meant to be for economic stimulus. And maybe poor people buy food rather than electrical goods or something. Not sure of the logic. Just know I don't get it at this stage.

I think now that a lot of my state has burnt down it will be changed though. Because there are a lot more people in real need.
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
3,166
MBTI Type
INFP
That sounds just so strange and wrong. Here they give money to the people who need it. Ok, that means that there's always some bums who take advantage of the system, but there isn't so many of them that it would be any good if they were denied their money.
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
MBTI Type
YMCA
That sounds just so strange and wrong. Here they give money to the people who need it. Ok, that means that there's always some bums who take advantage of the system, but there isn't so many of them that it would be any good if they were denied their money.

Yeh, the poor people get the normal welfare still, but for some reason the handouts to help the economy go to everyone but them. It's almost a thousand dollars too. So I'm going to be watching everyone else I know get it and missing out, which is a bit annoying.
 

mlittrell

New member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,387
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w1
money is needed for the "system" to run. the people who are the best at running the "system" tend to be ones who have the most of it and are also the ones that "need" it those most. i personally am quite happy with not having tons of money (after college that will change) but i also do not want responsibility for running the "system". so ill leave it to the people who are best with both. admittedly they also take advantage of the "system" and take a little extra. that pisses me off but i digress. is the "system" formed for certain people to make money... of course, otherwise you would have shmucks like me running the system and though im good at coming up with new ideas for the "system" i dont think i would quite enjoy keeping it running.
 

Chris_in_Orbit

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
504
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Not caring about making money is one thing and getting food on the table is another. It is difficult to find a balance. For me the problem is that the career choices possible for me are limited as the only motivation for many jobs is only money. I want something more out of my work. So, because I don't care that much about money, I am more picky about the other aspects of work. These things are not appreciated that much so it is hard to make myself useful.

I can understand that. What does it take to motivate you?
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
My problem with money is the fact that it exists.
 

Nonsensical

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
4,006
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7
My problem with money is the fact that it exists.

Agreed.

I'll have money one day, and won't have any the next, and will be thinking to myself..what happened? It always seems to mysteriously vanish whenever I get my hands on it! :shock:
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
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783
I make a rough $10400 a year as a student and spend a rough $15000 a year.. whats the problem with money ? :D
 
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