• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] Idealist relationships are disheartening

Chris_in_Orbit

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
504
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Some guys actually listen.

It sounds like it's just a bad combo or the guy's an ass or both. I don't really know.
I don't think the guy is a total ass. I mean I like him well enough. Though I have to say ESFJs really get on my last nerves with their doting-on-you-making-sure-everything-is-ok attitude. I apppreciate it every once and a while but I'm perfectly capable of taking care of myself. ENFJs seem to have a watered down version of that...I realize I'm no longer even addressing Schnitzel particularly so I'll just end that here.

hey...what's this obsession with blame? i don't know i just don't care...there's compatible and non compatible...i don't think anyone is doing anything "wrong" by being who they are....not to say that striving for growth and balance isn't important but there's no "better" way to approach the relationship...it's not a competition.

i happen to like that i see the good in people and feel i'd be a lot less happy if all i saw were everyone's faults.
Its not about competition. If you're in a relationship, there is definitely a "right" way to go about it. I don't even know if you will agree with that, but thats ok. I don't think you should be looking at people's faults either. Just see them for who they are, faults included. You might be way more happy if those things don't nip you in the bud later. (what does "nip in the bud" even mean? Seriously.)

I think we just value relationship above all else. It's important not to trash something if there is any possibility of it being redeemable, because maintaining relationships is important in and of itself, an idea that overrides the particular relationship we happen to be in at the moment.
True. If you trash something without taking it as far as it can go, you don't get your money's worth.

That's the theory, but I'm pretty sure there's another part of it too, namely people moving themselves to a suitable balance. Is there any type that doesn't have both thinking and feeling in the top four functions?

If the deal with relationships is each partner is forever dragging the other partner back from their dominant+auxiliary ledge, that seems kinda... confining, at least.


I also think--for the particular problem that originated this thread--J's together have a hard time communicating naturally, especially if their directive functions can't say things the other type can understand. Or if their directive function is pushing for something the other person's directive function doesn't accept. Si informed Fe and Ni informed Fe... you gotta hope there's grounds for understanding.


And altruism? That's another thread, but I really don't want to rule out the possibility that it can be real. Sure, people are involved in their own decision-making--because if they weren't, they'd make no decisions at all--but, at the risk of being selfish, I believe there can be good decisions about good action.
Js having a hard time communicating.. I can see that. Both of my friends have opinions about the way things should be. Its pretty obvious that neither of them are willing to budge without something exploding in their face.
 

Tiltyred

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
4,322
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
468
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
"Nip in the bud" refers to gardening, when you nip (cut) the bud off of a plant to keep it from reproducing.
 

Giggly

No moss growing on me
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
9,661
MBTI Type
iSFj
Enneagram
2
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Don't just say it, show me.

Show you? What do you mean?

I'm not sure if you're suggesting that SFs don't ever love anyone or if SFs have a hard time letting go.
 

Chris_in_Orbit

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
504
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Well, it would probably be relevant to say I was going to say "naive" in place of romantic but assumed that would be offensive. I was saying SFs don't idealize relationships and people as much as NFs. If you disagree with that I need to know why. "Show me" meant: tell me why you disagree.
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
MBTI Type
INTP
SFs can be romantic, I'm not sure why someone would think they are less so than NFs.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
well sure there's a right way...meaning come as you are and accept the other person as they are but...i meant that it's not a distinction made by the way a feeler approaches it verses the way a thinker does, which kind of seemed like what you were saying.
 

Chris_in_Orbit

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
504
MBTI Type
ESTJ
I think he was just trying to flirt with you.
Yer gonna get it. ;)

SFs can be romantic, I'm not sure why someone would think they are less so than NFs.
Certainly.

well sure there's a right way...meaning come as you are and accept the other person as they are but...i meant that it's not a distinction made by the way a feeler approaches it verses the way a thinker does, which kind of seemed like what you were saying.
You may be right. I've seen some naive Ts...especially when it comes to love. But it always seems like they learn their lesson after the first time they get hurt. NFs, not so much.
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
MBTI Type
YMCA
But it always seems like they learn their lesson after the first time they get hurt. NFs, not so much.

We're more contextual and don't create global rules as quickly. So if one person hurts me one way, the next situation is a new one, and there are all these other possible ways it could go. I sort of battled at explaining it in one of the other threads, but for me it seems to have to change or refine a core value. So unless something deeply rooted in my world view that fits with the rest of the picture is changed, the last situation is just one of the pieces of info brought to the table when considering the new one.

I tend to get caught in trying to understand the person and the problem also, rather than letting go and relieving myself of the emotional pain. I don't like to write people off, and if I'm feeling the urge to, it can be quite unsettling.

In reply to the earlier post on moving on: I tend to hate killing possibilities, and also hate not exploring certain ideas and thoughts. I know in a thread earlier with INFJs it was said they need to move on, so it might be a J thing. Ps often like to leave situations more open than Js, and are more comfortable that way.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp

nozflubber

DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,078
MBTI Type
Hype
Did I miss the part where it was explained how this was the ENFP's fault and not the ESFJ's? Cuz I gotta admit, i didn't read this thread.


I'm so helpful. *glisten*
 

Chris_in_Orbit

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
504
MBTI Type
ESTJ
We're more contextual and don't create global rules as quickly. So if one person hurts me one way, the next situation is a new one, and there are all these other possible ways it could go. I sort of battled at explaining it in one of the other threads, but for me it seems to have to change or refine a core value. So unless something deeply rooted in my world view that fits with the rest of the picture is changed, the last situation is just one of the pieces of info brought to the table when considering the new one.

I tend to get caught in trying to understand the person and the problem also, rather than letting go and relieving myself of the emotional pain. I don't like to write people off, and if I'm feeling the urge to, it can be quite unsettling.

In reply to the earlier post on moving on: I tend to hate killing possibilities, and also hate not exploring certain ideas and thoughts. I know in a thread earlier with INFJs it was said they need to move on, so it might be a J thing. Ps often like to leave situations more open than Js, and are more comfortable that way.
I see. Seems like a terribly long process.

Did I miss the part where it was explained how this was the ENFP's fault and not the ESFJ's? Cuz I gotta admit, i didn't read this thread.


I'm so helpful. *glisten*
They are both to blame for sure :p
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
that's just how we do it. we're idealists. every new person is different and each experience unique. we would not give someone less of a chance because the one before hurt or disappointed us in some way.
 

Chris_in_Orbit

New member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
504
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Just out of curiosity, how many times has anything or anyone lived up to your ideal?
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
haha...but people are a work in progress, don't you see....i'm just kidding i have no clue why the hell does it matter to ya anyway?
 
Top