• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[ENFJ] Need help communicating with ENFJ

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Like the title says I need help communicating with an ENFJ. I am starting to learn more about MBTI and am finally getting to the point where I think I can ask the right question.

From my understanding and real life involvement with an ENFJ, they will take in some data or detail with Se and run with it with there Ni and make a judgement with Fe. The thing is there Ni does not always take into consideration all the data or ignores data that doesnt support there Ni and can run off in a direction that causes them anxiety. How does an SP go about bringing up the data that they overlooked without having them feel like you invalidated there feeling? Is it even possible?
 

wolfmaiden14

*ears perk up*
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
590
MBTI Type
Infx
Key = VALIDATION. If you don't want them to feel invalidated, then don't!

Ask them to explain what they think and why they think it before you debate. Nod a lot. Comment in that direction. Look like you agree even if you don't. Make it clear that you undersand and respect their point, and therefore (as they see it)THEM. Even SAY that you understand and respect their point, and that it might be true in a certain situation. (then you can transition into your own points) "However, in this situation, I believe (your points) make it more like (your opinion)." Try to word it in ways that gives them the extra information you believe they're missing rather than being argumentative. Pay attention to body language and back off and go back to some validating techniques if you see them getting upset.

This is just conflict prevention techniques in general, but is an especially important point for ENFJs.

ENFJs who lack enough Ti are a dangerous force indeed. ><
 

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,741
MBTI Type
INfj
Perhaps you should focus less on type and more about that particular individual. One of the easiest way you can get people to re-think their position is by asking the question "why". Why they might be feeling that way. What lead them to that conclusion? Have them explain it to you. (It looks like you're quite interested in her) The process of them explaining it all out loud will help to re-evaluate everything. Actually this is a very good check for whether the jumps made by Ni are sensible or not. This gives you the opposite to add your own comments afterwards... "Have you consider..."

Good luck. :)
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think you are going about it backwards. First you get to know the person, their habits etc THEN you relate it to MBTI. It doesn't work if you know their type and base everything you do around them off of that. I know plenty of people who are the same type, they act nothing alike but I see that they function similarly.
 

nozflubber

DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,078
MBTI Type
Hype
I think you are going about it backwards. First you get to know the person, their habits etc THEN you relate it to MBTI. It doesn't work if you know their type and base everything you do around them off of that. .

like 99% of this forum needs to read this post 10xs. well said
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Key = VALIDATION. If you don't want them to feel invalidated, then don't!

Ask them to explain what they think and why they think it before you debate. Nod a lot. Comment in that direction. Look like you agree even if you don't. Make it clear that you undersand and respect their point, and therefore (as they see it)THEM. Even SAY that you understand and respect their point, and that it might be true in a certain situation. (then you can transition into your own points) "However, in this situation, I believe (your points) make it more like (your opinion)." Try to word it in ways that gives them the extra information you believe they're missing rather than being argumentative. Pay attention to body language and back off and go back to some validating techniques if you see them getting upset.

This is just conflict prevention techniques in general, but is an especially important point for ENFJs.

ENFJs who lack enough Ti are a dangerous force indeed. ><

Thanks, that has helped alot. My conflict prevention with this person has got to the point where I just stay quiet and I am now trying to work on communicating more effectivley.

I think you are going about it backwards. First you get to know the person, their habits etc THEN you relate it to MBTI. It doesn't work if you know their type and base everything you do around them off of that. I know plenty of people who are the same type, they act nothing alike but I see that they function similarly.

I have known her for a long time and I am looking for some help with a particular type. Feelings are a weak point. The extent of my dealing with F is if it will hurt, offend, etc dont say it. But there are times when things have to be said and I want to be able to say them without so much conflict and more discussion.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I think you are going about it backwards. First you get to know the person, their habits etc THEN you relate it to MBTI. It doesn't work if you know their type and base everything you do around them off of that. I know plenty of people who are the same type, they act nothing alike but I see that they function similarly.

Back when we were mechanics, I recall sitting next to my ISTP bff out in the sun on the hood of his car. We'd gotten out of the garage for the day. I was railing about this INTP I was seeing (a mutual friend). ISTP had two responses to this sort of thing with me:

1. play devil's advocate, which usually sent me over into "Who's side are you ON?! *I'm* 'Little Sister', dammit!" (to which he'd laugh and relent). Or if I was really jacked up, he'd say quite calmly and seriously, "I'm trying to get you to see the other side of this, and also, I know you could break the guy in half and I don't think he needs to die for his stupidity. YET."

He'd feel sorry for the INTP, sometimes just sit there shaking his head and muttering, "It's like you *want* to die, X." He would point out to me that the longer X knew me, the less he got me. Then he'd turn around and defend the guy because I'm an "extinction level fireball and nobody stands a chance".


2. listen sympathetically and let me cry or yell until I was calm. He never seemed afraid of me. I was grateful for that. I was so tired of being told to control myself, to calm down, to stop crying, stop yelling, stop caring. He knew me very well and understood that I NEEDED to get that mess out in whatever way possible or it would hurt me. I was in a VERY bad threatening mangling life situation and I didn't lose my temper over stupid stuff. I was truly in trouble and trying to survive. I didn't need lessons in table manners. He refrained from that sort of thing.


Thanks, that has helped alot. My conflict prevention with this person has got to the point where I just stay quiet and I am now trying to work on communicating more effectivley.

I have known her for a long time and I am looking for some help with a particular type. Feelings are a weak point. The extent of my dealing with F is if it will hurt, offend, etc dont say it. But there are times when things have to be said and I want to be able to say them without so much conflict and more discussion.

Developing your F is important, not because you need to cry at Hallmark commercials but because it'll help you to interpret the other Fs in your life.

Hard truths. Yes, there's no easy way to break those sometimes. I understand. I take hard truths from my sister and my mother because I know that they would throw themselves under a bus for me, and even if it upsets me, they would never hurt me or trample on me, so there must be something I need to examine. Granted, that takes a frightening amount of vulnerability and willingness to leave yourself open. It was okay with ISTP friend and my INTJ bff (both male), but others? No.

I have yet to meet a man in a romantic sense who didn't try to manipulate me somehow or disrespect horribly me to his advantage during a fight.
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
1. play devil's advocate, which usually sent me over into "Who's side are you ON?! *I'm* 'Little Sister', dammit!" (to which he'd laugh and relent). Or if I was really jacked up, he'd say quite calmly and seriously, "I'm trying to get you to see the other side of this, and also, I know you could break the guy in half and I don't think he needs to die for his stupidity. YET."

We love to play devils advocate with someone to try and show them that the other person has a reason. Now whether or not it is a valid reason is for each person to decide, we just always have to look at both sides or we start to become a ENFJ shadow and make value judgments. This makes us feel stupid when someone else pointed out something we didnt consider and we have to back up why we thought what we thought.

He'd feel sorry for the INTP, sometimes just sit there shaking his head and muttering, "It's like you *want* to die, X." He would point out to me that the longer X knew me, the less he got me. Then he'd turn around and defend the guy because I'm an "extinction level fireball and nobody stands a chance".

Its like a serpents tongue. I have heard this from several people when they piss this ENFJ off, Its like the most perfect words come out to put that person in there place. Or on the otherside she has this knack of getting people to do things for her, they are geniuses with how to relate to people and get there point across.

2. listen sympathetically and let me cry or yell until I was calm. He never seemed afraid of me. I was grateful for that. I was so tired of being told to control myself, to calm down, to stop crying, stop yelling, stop caring. He knew me very well and understood that I NEEDED to get that mess out in whatever way possible or it would hurt me. I was in a VERY bad threatening mangling life situation and I didn't lose my temper over stupid stuff. I was truly in trouble and trying to survive. I didn't need lessons in table manners. He refrained from that sort of thing.

We dont judge and if raised to consider emotions we can handle a lot of emotion. When not stressed I can deal with 4 year old temper tantrums without even batting an eye, no frustrationg, no anger, nothing. We arent the people to turn to when you need empathy, but we are the person to turn to when you need emotional strength and a shoulder to cry on. We will listen without letting the Fe get in the way. We also dont judge you on what you did. We know you had a reason and its based on what you knew at the time, so just like we dont like being judged for a bad judgement call, we wont judge others on thiers. This is assuming a healthy/happy ISTP.


Developing your F is important, not because you need to cry at Hallmark commercials but because it'll help you to interpret the other Fs in your life.

I am starting to realize this. I do not get emotional, but now that I am paying attention to Fe I can read peoples emotions alot better now and try to pull out what is wrong or sense how someone feels. I am still in the toddler mode where I ask alot of questions though and kinda slow, but Im getting there.

Granted, that takes a frightening amount of vulnerability and willingness to leave yourself open. It was okay with ISTP friend and my INTJ bff (both male), but others? No.

I am the same way, but with Ti. It takes a good amount of vulnerability for me to say what I think because I dont want to be judged for my screw ups and bad judgement. I will do things in private to verify myself before I will do it with others present so that they dont see a weak vulnerable Ti. That is why we need so much space. We need time to figure things out and be able to know its right before anyone even knows we are capable of doing it. You dont usually know what an ISTP is capable of until he has mastered it.

There is always a reason "we just feel like it", but it takes a special person to get it out of us. It is based on Ti and when this gets called out we feel just as invalidated as when an ENFJ gets called out for there Fe. If it is forced out when we do not want to say, we seem to know how much Se detail to withhold to send them off in a different direction and if that means closing up my Fe than thats what I do.
 

Jack Flak

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
9,098
MBTI Type
type
I think I met an ENFJ last night. Pretty sure. I was at about my weirdest, which is pretty weird, and the conversation seemed to be going unusually well, considering that. So, be weird.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
You met another ENFJ? Did you snap a picture? I've only met two in person.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Super. We're cloning ourselves.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
ENFJs are cool. A good friend of mine is ENFJ. We seem to have a good bit of common ground, she motivates me to do things in a way that isn't offensive to me and makes me actually enjoy the time I have with her, which is rare because most of the time when I'm with people (that I don't trust or enjoy) I am annoyed.
 

VissralNaction

New member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
12
MBTI Type
INFJ
I come from a crazy circle of NFs. My wife, aunt, and father-in-law are ENFJ. My self, uncle, close friend, daughter, grandfather, and mother are all INFx. Christmas is DIFFERENT in MY world.

Communication with ENFJ ... hmmm ... during communication ... it's best to remember that ENFJ has YOUR best interests in mind, not their own. (Whether they're on track or not.) The downside of this is the tendency towards trying to educate everyone around them into copies of themselves, but they truly don't realize this, just as the INFx doesn't realize that their intuitive insight of a situation does NOT take into account ALL considerations.

Some splendid hard feelings can occur. :)

ENFJ needs help centering on themselves (perhaps why INFP/ENFJ pairings are so beneficial ... INFP needs help understanding that they're NOT the centre.)

When communicating with an ENFJ, validation (real grok) is truly a key. One major phrase I've learned to use in expressing my love and making my wife feel good is NOT "I love you." ... it's "Thank you for caring so much about me." She goes mooshy.

ENFJ will give of themselves to the point of total exhaustion and collapse. RECEIVE the giving (circle of life dudes), and thereby validate. This is the emotional communication and intimacy. Talk about advice as "rules of life" ... ENFJ needs to know a universal law, applicable to everyone, to understand a new point of view. (Just as an INFx needs metaphor or parable ... an archetype to ponder ... to understand a new point of view.)

In short ... if you're arguing with an ENFJ, you're not just arguing with them ... you're arguing with THE LAW! If you argue with an INFx, you're not just arguing with them ... you're arguing with THE PRINCIPLE! Neither are recommended.

Of course, with all of that ... all standard concepts regarding human communication apply as well. This is just my own thoughts and experience, subject to change without notice. :)
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
When communicating with an ENFJ, validation (real grok) is truly a key. One major phrase I've learned to use in expressing my love and making my wife feel good is NOT "I love you." ... it's "Thank you for caring so much about me." She goes mooshy.

Im not so good with words. I have no problem with I love you, I will try out a few different things thanking her for caring so much.

ENFJ will give of themselves to the point of total exhaustion and collapse. RECEIVE the giving (circle of life dudes), and thereby validate. This is the emotional communication and intimacy. Talk about advice as "rules of life" ... ENFJ needs to know a universal law, applicable to everyone, to understand a new point of view. (Just as an INFx needs metaphor or parable ... an archetype to ponder ... to understand a new point of view.)

I see alot that she will give herself to the point of exhaustion. Being SP I dont have rules of life. I can tell she is trying to understand me, but I change alot. I like camping, but I dont always feel like going camping. This confuses her because to her if I dont like planning it means I am spontaneous, but its not really spontaneous just to be spontaneous. I dont like planning because I dont know what I am going to feel like doing at the time. I will plan when I have to, but try to limit it as much as possible. I am working on explaining why I do what I do, i just gotta figure out why first. I dont do much introspection which is why an SPs response alot of the times is just "because I feel like it" We dont see a need to figure out why we feel how we feel. Her biggest complaint is communication, this is a guess what shes talking about. So when she says our communication is getting better it is because I am explaining the "why" which allows her to adapt her universal law?

ENFJ needs help centering on themselves (perhaps why INFP/ENFJ pairings are so beneficial ... INFP needs help understanding that they're NOT the centre.)

This is the truth. One of the things I tell her alot is that she needs to learn not to care so much. She needs to focus more on herself and less on others.

I enjoy constructive criticism. Lay it on if I am wrong.
 

VissralNaction

New member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
12
MBTI Type
INFJ
No criticism at all really ... sounds like you've got it. :)

I can see ISTP and ENFJ being a very good couple ... I'll mull that over for awhile. Very different experience of the world, but I can see the differences being very good for each other too.

You can probably help her with living a more spontaneous life, and she will probably help you in living a more social life ... just by being around each other.

Definitely be aware that she's probably a lot more sensitive than you are. Just the way it is. You'll need to be more careful of her feelings than you might think ... they're 'louder' for her than yours are for you. (Generally speaking of the types.)

To be understood yourself, yes you'll probably have to explain more than you think may be necessary. It might be a nuisance from time to time, but the payoff will really be worth it. Things that you think should be obvious won't be for her, but by explaining she will take it in. Trust her insight and advice when it comes to dealing with other people. It can be hard to find out what ENFJ really thinks about things. They will push their own opinions down in favor of what the group needs. You'll have to say things like "Right now don't worry about person A, and person B, and person C ... we can all take care of ourselves ... what about YOU?"

In general, when making life plans together, she'll be better at the "big picture", and you'll be better at "how are we going to get that done?" That also means, when she wants to have a "relationship talk", she may not understand that you probably haven't thought about it much past what's going on this weekend. :) You'll need to explain that as long as everything seems fine, then everything's fine.


These are just my thoughts ... let me know if I've got anything wrong too ... helps me out.

Nice to meet you man.
 
Top