[ENFP] ENFPs , What do you think of INTJs?

[BlackCat]

INTJs are cool.

 

[Hendo Barbarosa]

high fives

 

[Laurie]

Someone posted some awesome comment about how INTJ's love the ENFP's constant questioning. I think it was in another thread.. that I can't find. Any help?

 

[Hendo Barbarosa]

there be this thread

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nt-rationale/10075-where-do-i-meet-intj-guys.html

and these auxiliary ones

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-idyllic/1838-enfp-s-fact-fiction.html

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-idyllic/4729-enfps-love-obsession-myth.html

 

[Kalach]

If forced to, INTJs will elaborate their individual ideas in detail, but in fact mostly what we do is tip-of-the-iceberg speaking. ENFPs do a lot of of "Whoa, there's a tip, I know what that iceberg is!" Massive miscommunication is possible, but it doesn't seem to happen that often--it's seems like there's all sorts of give and take in one or two eyebrow moves and a handful of bizarre tangents with giggling and sparkles.

Tell you what, though. ENFPs skate away from stuff pretty quick too. If there's fear or threat in an idea or a reaction, and you push it, there can be some foot stamping and breezy dismissals.

But it also seems like you come back to it in time, although there can be some big, big circles before you get there.

Getting coherent storylines from an ENFP can sometimes be very, very frustrating.

But... I suppose that's another one of those give and take things: the INTJ, if he's overbearing and used to being that way, can get to sound like a stern parent when he's not supposed to--he's supposed to admit that in matters of values, the ENFP has got a stronger understanding and he's supposed to listen. And the listening will be fun, first because there's something in there the INTJ wants to know, and second, because there'll be a lot of associated ideas and merry understanding along the way. All of which the INTJ will engage in where he wouldn't with anyone else exactly because he's all the time being asked to do what he does best--synthesize understanding--for which he gets rewarded--by seeing that his own contributions to the discussion are both laughed at and taken seriously.

And some other stuff which I don't understand.

I just made all of that up.

 

[Wild horses]

I completely agree that there is alot of non-verbal communication that occurs between ENFPs and INTJs. I also agree that whilst seeming to not get along on the surface the two types could actually be getting on incredibly well due to this non-verbal dialogue, I also believe that both types like to banter and enjoy having an argument (the debate kind)

 

[Hendo Barbarosa]

--it's seems like there's all sorts of give and take in one or two eyebrow moves and a handful of bizarre tangents with giggling and sparkles.

and just reading this sentence made me think happy thoughts.

I also realized something important too about the whole "control" thing: I tend to only do it in a situation that I feel is too "chaotic" or where I don't have enough understanding of all the variables. In those times, I need to exert my controlling ideas on someone and be able to see the reaction of that control to feel better about my own standing in a situation. Since I often feel like I need to do this, I prefer to do it with people that I know well and care about, and therefore can trust that they know what's going down. Thus it tends to be NFP friends that bear the burden of I suppose what I would call "backseat living" where I just want to check up on their lives (read: Plans) so that I know that they have THEIR shit together, because in this particular situation I don't have mine together, against my will.

In any case, FantailedWall, it could totally be that case with your dad, and in that regard it probably is less "I JUST WANT TO DOTE" than you think. He might be controlling for the sake of his own emotional stability/comfort!

 

[Hap]

I completely agree that there is alot of non-verbal communication that occurs between ENFPs and INTJs. I also agree that whilst seeming to not get along on the surface the two types could actually be getting on incredibly well due to this non-verbal dialogue, I also believe that both types like to banter and enjoy having an argument (the debate kind)

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[Wild horses]

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[Lady_X]

If forced to, INTJs will elaborate their individual ideas in detail, but in fact mostly what we do is tip-of-the-iceberg speaking. ENFPs do a lot of of "Whoa, there's a tip, I know what that iceberg is!" Massive miscommunication is possible, but it doesn't seem to happen that often--it's seems like there's all sorts of give and take in one or two eyebrow moves and a handful of bizarre tangents with giggling and sparkles.

Tell you what, though. ENFPs skate away from stuff pretty quick too. If there's fear or threat in an idea or a reaction, and you push it, there can be some foot stamping and breezy dismissals.

But it also seems like you come back to it in time, although there can be some big, big circles before you get there.

Getting coherent storylines from an ENFP can sometimes be very, very frustrating.

But... I suppose that's another one of those give and take things: the INTJ, if he's overbearing and used to being that way, can get to sound like a stern parent when he's not supposed to--he's supposed to admit that in matters of values, the ENFP has got a stronger understanding and he's supposed to listen. And the listening will be fun, first because there's something in there the INTJ wants to know, and second, because there'll be a lot of associated ideas and merry understanding along the way. All of which the INTJ will engage in where he wouldn't with anyone else exactly because he's all the time being asked to do what he does best--synthesize understanding--for which he gets rewarded--by seeing that his own contributions to the discussion are both laughed at and taken seriously.

And some other stuff which I don't understand.

I just made all of that up.

 

[Erudur]

and just reading this sentence made me think happy thoughts.

I also realized something important too about the whole "control" thing: I tend to only do it in a situation that I feel is too "chaotic" or where I don't have enough understanding of all the variables. In those times, I need to exert my controlling ideas on someone and be able to see the reaction of that control to feel better about my own standing in a situation. Since I often feel like I need to do this, I prefer to do it with people that I know well and care about, and therefore can trust that they know what's going down. Thus it tends to be NFP friends that bear the burden of I suppose what I would call "backseat living" where I just want to check up on their lives (read: Plans) so that I know that they have THEIR shit together, because in this particular situation I don't have mine together, against my will.

In any case, FantailedWall, it could totally be that case with your dad, and in that regard it probably is less "I JUST WANT TO DOTE" than you think. He might be controlling for the sake of his own emotional stability/comfort!

I may try to control surroundings or circumstances -- but I have no interest in controlling people. I am more likely to withdraw from the person or the situation. I think I have too much aversion to being controlled to ever try to control another person.

That may be one of my own unique special connections with the ENFP -- I don't fear they will pen me in.

 

[Hendo Barbarosa]

Well what do you define as controlling a person?

For me, asking a person what their plans are is defined as controlling them, even in a subtle way. Sometimes I just don't trust people enough to not do that, even if internally, but what I meant was that with close friends it tends to be more external. It's never not gracious though.

 

[Erudur]

For me, asking a person what their plans are is defined as controlling them, ...

That doesn't seem like control to me. I read control more as manipulating people to benefit myself--either subtly (emotions) or overtly (using position or power to force someone to do something).

 

[Hendo Barbarosa]

yeah but if you ask someone "what are your plans" you are trying to discern information to make your life and your co-existence more comfortable...but if you're an INTJ, you're doing that with the primary motivation of self-comfort, or self-security (imo). So it's not like a puppet-master thing, but people still RESPOND to it like it is. That's probably why I've (in a potentially erroneous way?) labeled it as such. It's effectively control of self, with others involved.

 

[Erudur]

I'll let the ENFPs chime in, but I am guessing what you meant by control would not be at all threatening to an ENFP.

 

[Kalach]

yeah but if you ask someone "what are your plans" you are trying to discern information to make your life and your co-existence more comfortable...but if you're an INTJ, you're doing that with the primary motivation of self-comfort, or self-security (imo). So it's not like a puppet-master thing, but people still RESPOND to it like it is. That's probably why I've (in a potentially erroneous way?) labeled it as such. It's effectively control of self, with others involved.

Or it's just that by INTJ nature you're a real world planner--entailment planners, is what we get called somewhere in some type description--bottle cap tighteners--and, literally, that is what we have to offer.

It can go overboard and become a controlling interest... but exerting control is really tiring, and like Eruder said, it goes against the grain to know your keeping someone you care for under your thumb.

Not that it won't happen sometimes.

But I'm pretty sure INTJ types will notice a conflict inside themselves if they're finding themselves aiming at controlling others, and not just controlling project planning.

For one thing, it's kinda boring if you know exactly what someone's going to do next, especially if somehow you've made them do it.

 

[Maabus1999]

I've never had any problems with INTJ's. At least the ones on this forum. I don't know if I know any in real life or not.

Beware the INTJ's in NC. They all are 3 feet tall, drool, and have green skin!

 

[Maabus1999]

Or it's just that by INTJ nature you're a real world planner--entailment planners, is what we get called somewhere in some type description--bottle cap tighteners--and, literally, that is what we have to offer.

It can go overboard and become a controlling interest... but exerting control is really tiring, and like Eruder said, it goes against the grain to know your keeping someone you care for under your thumb.

Not that it won't happen sometimes.

But I'm pretty sure INTJ types will notice a conflict inside themselves if they're finding themselves aiming at controlling others, and not just controlling project planning.

For one thing, it's kinda boring if you know exactly what someone's going to do next, especially if somehow you've made them do it.

On a social level, yes I don't like manipulation or control. I hate the "game" people play on top of that, and usually just ignore it completely if I sense it (ironically this causes strange things to happen).

On a business level I would find it 100% interesting and worth pursuing if I could predict people's actions on a macro level. Plus influencing things from behind the scenes can be gratifying as you can see the results without getting to much of the spotlight which is tiring for me, and I'm sure other INTJ's who have been in similar situations.

 

[Hendo Barbarosa]

honestly, it's all just for peace of mastermind

 

[Tiny Army]

I know only two INTJs (my older brother and Hendo). I get along awesomely with both of them. I do think they tend to be bubble bursters. Whenever I am excited about my most recent ENFP crusade, they always appear and say "Oh yeah, well how're you going to do that?" and then blast you with their logic ray. I'm a super sensitive ENFP, too so my parade feels rained on. But I've come to realise that my INTJs are visionaries, too in their own right. They love the process of new ideas, and need to be involved in its development. When meddling in your personal life, it is their way of feeling involved and also a way for them to exercise their Ni and Te by "solving" your life or your idea. Usually if I let them go on for a bit, they can add a valuable perspective to the situation and often help me follow through on my kind of half assed plans.

Though, this must be much easier to deal with in a writer/artist team situation than in a daughter/father relationship, huh FantailedWall?

I'm really glad a bunch of INTJs posted! I love hearing the other side's perspective on things.