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[MBTI General] Idealist Thoughts on INTP Romance

ExAstrisSpes

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Aug 11, 2010
Messages
337
MBTI Type
ENFJ
The Good:
He's very intelligent, and we can have long, meandering conversations. I really <3 listening to his theories. It took a little while to get him to let me in on his theories, though. I still don't think he gives me the whole story on quite a few of his theories. I feel sad that he thinks I'm just humoring him.
He's generous and kind. When he's affectionate it's very pure and sweet. He always wants to ensure I'm enjoying myself when I'm with him.
He's open-minded; he's very interested in learning new things and having new experiences. I really like that. If I don't understand something that he does, I feel comfortable to ask him and not be treated like an idiot.
He's witty and funny, I'm always smiling and laughing when I'm with him.
Our relationship is relatively low-drama. It's very stress-relieving for me to be around him.
He doesn't demand me to be a certain way.
When we're together, I feel like he's with me and involved with me 100%. I feel like we really are a team and we work well together.
The few times when we've had conflicts, we've been able to work them out in a healthy way that is fair to both partners. I really love this about our relationship.
He's very positive and encouraging; once I was working next to him on my laptop (he was playing Wii or watching a movie) and I messed something up and called myself an idiot or stupid. He turned to me and very pointedly said, "You're not stupid," which made me stop and realize what I was doing.

The Bad:
He rarely calls. Even when he's on vacation, he never calls. I've asked him several times (not nagging), that I would like to hear from him when we're apart. Maybe I haven't articulated to him why in a way that he understands. He has said this has been a problem for him in past relationships. If this is the worst thing I have to deal with in this relationship, I count myself very lucky.
Related to the not-calling thing, I feel that when we are apart, I'm not on his mind at all. Or rather, my thoughts, emotions, etc. don't matter. It's like he's literally taking the phrase "it's better to ask forgiveness than to ask for permission". I'm very easy going, and yet I feel like he makes decisions like these because he thinks I'm going to overreact when he brings them up so he waits until it's past time for me to have any sort of input or comment on whatever decision it is. Because of this, I feel like I don't matter to him all that much and that my feelings aren't important to him. I do try to explain why his behavior was hurtful and he apologizes and says that he can see my point-of-view (or that his behavior wasn't fair to me), but I don't really see his behavior changing on this point. I don't think he is malicious or goes out with the intent of hurting me, but at some point he realizes his behavior is hurtful. It's like he doesn't realize he's in a relationship unless he's physically with me. Maybe he doesn't want to be in one with me?
Because of his P, his behavior can sometimes be really puzzling to me. Even though we have a good relationship, and I think we manage conflicts just fine, I never quite get to the place where I feel our relationship is very secure. I hope this will change with time. He's said off-hand that we are in a committed, long-term relationship, but I don't feel like we're solid. This might just be a P/J thing.
 

Thalassa

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ISFP
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sx
I'm not so sure I just got a good one - from what I've observed getting a relationship started is the problem. We can be quite silly/intense romantics once we're over that hump... Provided we're not of the complete retard school of INTP.

Ok this is what I observe about INTx in general.

1) See cute rational awkward quiet boy who says really smart/funny things.

2) Develop limerence.

3) Flirt with cute rational awkward quiet boy who says really smart/funny things.

4) Become very pleased that he is pleased by attention and recipricating. Yay! This might go somewhere!

5) Suddenly notice that cute rational awkward quiet boy who says really smart/funny things is detatched/absent/forgets to call/forgets to write/is busy watching zombie movies, playing WoW or hanging out on 4Chan.

6) Take normal INTx nature personally and become overly emotional and imagine that he doesn't like me anymore.

7) INTx is frightened by what he sees as overreaction or irrational emotional outburst. Hides. This may lead to more emotional behavior.

8) INTx decides is not worth the trouble/really doesn't like me anymore because he is afraid of emotional behavior.

9) Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Cry. Date SFJs. Become annoyed. Want yet another elusive INTx.

I had to spend a year and a half on this web site (on top of years lived previously having run-ins with INTx boys) to learn that all that was going on here is that I was taking the INTx nature personally and by emoting got exactly the OPPOSITE of the desired effect.

*sighs*

I hope that some day I meet the right INTx and decide this painful "research" was worth all the trouble. :coffee:

Oh, and P.S. acting like a PUA is not sexy. I do not recommend this method to clueless INTPs. It comes off as annoying and does nothing to inspire trust. Who falls for this shit? SFP women?

No offense to SFP women. Just sayin'. It must work on someone, I just doubt even 1% of those women are NF or NT.
 

Fan.of.Devin

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Jul 12, 2010
Messages
292
MBTI Type
INTP
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4w5
Basically I love when people labeled as INTP think clearly and are reasonable, but there is also an overlap between people who identify as INTP (not limited to that MBTI label for sure) and what I like to call "pansy cowboy syndrome". I discovered this ailment while growing up in a Wild West town. It consists of people who think they are tough based on their rudeness and expectations for everyone around them to have to be tough. What is not realized is what a delicate little pansy the person actually is and that they certainly can't take what they dish out. An entire culture of bullies can be built up from it in some contexts like the one I grew up in. The secret pansy tough guy/girl becomes unbearable when the extra layer of "logic" is added on top.
I had to deal with a lot of buttholes of this caliber in metals class...
Really harshed my TIG welding buzz.

They were the Northern Midwest variant, though... So, basically farm kids that thought driving around in big trucks with confederate flags on them was the coolest thing ever. They were assholes to everyone, with a constant "more manly than thou" attitude. I suspect the obsession with big trucks was some sort of penis size insecurity thing or something.
When isolated from their gang of meatheaded greasymonkey idiots, though, they become incredibly vulnerable. Funny shit; I think I scared one of them severely once.
 

INTP

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bla bla bla

we need our Ti time.. its nothing personal if you arent on his mind 24/7, so you shouldnt feel bad about it. its just that there is no room for other people in Ti mode, but im sure you pop into his mind at times when you arent together. its just probably that his mind gets distracted by Ti stuff so easily when he is alone and he has to take that route in thinking, unless the alone alone time wont do much good when it comes to recharging, so he wont be thinking you like 3 hours straight, more like getting occasional wubbies from you and then continue with his Ti thing.

This J not seeing P very secure partner is just an illusion from you reflecting self into his actions. like if you would do what he does, you would do it because of lack of want to commit or what ever, but his reasons arent the same as yours. another thing is that you see him generally as someone who changes his mind easily etc. so you assume that he is like this with everything, but it isnt like that, he might think your relationship as something he doesent want to change to a relationship with someone else. he wouldnt bother with that good stuff you listed if he really really wouldnt want to be with you.
 

ExAstrisSpes

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ENFJ
another thing is that you see him generally as someone who changes his mind easily etc. so you assume that he is like this with everything, but it isnt like that, he might think your relationship as something he doesent want to change to a relationship with someone else.

To go from: "I don't think we're long-term compatible" to "We are in a long-term, committed relationship" in the span of a few short weeks, followed by "Surprise! We haven't been together long enough to take vacations together; I'm going to go to <insert remote, exotic, foreign place> next month for two weeks alone with a woman who I know has designs on me and I suspect she would rather me dump you for her so we can have a romantic trip, by the way do you want to spend New Year's with my family?" doesn't sound like a particularly stable relationship to me.

I trust him, but I did tell him if something happens on their trip I don't have a problem walking away from him. He looked particularly hurt by that, but it's not like he did anything to consider my feelings when he made the decision to go on the trip. I'm lucky he told me before he actually left.
 

Thalassa

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To go from: "I don't think we're long-term compatible" to "We are in a long-term, committed relationship" in the span of a few short weeks, followed by "Surprise! We haven't been together long enough to take vacations together; I'm going to go to <insert remote, exotic, foreign place> next month for two weeks alone with a woman who I know has designs on me and I suspect she would rather me dump you for her so we can have a romantic trip, by the way do you want to spend New Year's with my family?" doesn't sound like a particularly stable relationship to me.

Ummm...that's really....weird.
 

rav3n

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To go from: "I don't think we're long-term compatible" to "We are in a long-term, committed relationship" in the span of a few short weeks, followed by "Surprise! We haven't been together long enough to take vacations together; I'm going to go to <insert remote, exotic, foreign place> next month for two weeks alone with a woman who I know has designs on me and I suspect she would rather me dump you for her so we can have a romantic trip, by the way do you want to spend New Year's with my family?" doesn't sound like a particularly stable relationship to me.

I trust him, but I did tell him if something happens on their trip I don't have a problem walking away from him. He looked particularly hurt by that, but it's not like he did anything to consider my feelings when he made the decision to go on the trip. I'm lucky he told me before he actually left.
You've really put up with a lot. There's a serious lack of respect and consideration going on, INTP or not. Reconsider your stance.
 

Salomé

meh
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sx/sp
To go from: "I don't think we're long-term compatible" to "We are in a long-term, committed relationship" in the span of a few short weeks, followed by "Surprise! We haven't been together long enough to take vacations together; I'm going to go to <insert remote, exotic, foreign place> next month for two weeks alone with a woman who I know has designs on me and I suspect she would rather me dump you for her so we can have a romantic trip, by the way do you want to spend New Year's with my family?" doesn't sound like a particularly stable relationship to me.

You are putting up with this, why, exactly? Because he tells you you're not stupid?

This thread title is an oxymoron. INTP and romance don't belong together. :tongue:

This is true. When they try, it just comes out creepy.
 

rav3n

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Fear of losing someone doesn't mean you should allow them to walk all over you. INTPs are pretty open to new experiences but sooner or later, you're going to have to assert yourself.

And from my experience with INTPs, they won't pull this kind of stunt if they also fear loss.
 

Thalassa

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I wouldn't put up with it at all. I mean I'm flabbergasted that you would.

I'd throw a fit if my boyfriend said we were in a long-term committed relationship but he was jetting off to an exotic island for two weeks with another woman. I'd be like, "Are you retarded?"

I'm just sayin.
 

rav3n

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marm, one thing I learned about these guys is that they go into emotional overload pretty easily. If you hit them with a wall of emotion, they either turtle and nothing gets heard or they're defensive to the degree that it's like you're having two separate conversations.

Sit down and discuss it calmly, ducks in row, in logical fashion. They're major boundary pushers but they're far from stupid.
 

Thalassa

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marm, one thing I learned about these guys is that they go into emotional overload pretty easily. If you hit them with a wall of emotion, they either turtle and nothing gets heard or they're defensive to the degree that it's like you're having two separate conversations.

Sit down and discuss it calmly, ducks in row, in logical fashion. They're major boundary pushers but they're far from stupid.

Yeah I think I've learned this as well in my personal experiences with INTx men...wall of emotion makes them either run or get cold and/or pissy.

I'm learning. I swear.
 

Fan.of.Devin

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...I don't think his actions there can really be blamed on him being an INTP.

If somebody pulled that shit on me, the relationship would basically end there and then simply for the fact they even considered a scenario like that as a possibility.

Good fuckin' riddance.
 

skylights

i love
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ooh interesting thread.

+
  • intellectual*
  • like to talk about random things
  • slightly offbeat sense of humor
  • sweet, quirky sense of romance
  • really cute when caught off guard
  • perfectionistic
  • really dedicated when they love you
  • slightly oblivious to practical issues
  • stable and analytical

-
  • pretty obnoxious when they think ("know") they're right
  • uninterested in you if you're being illogical (in their opinion)
  • "disappear" when there is an unpleasant task*
  • inattentive to others when they're hurt
  • slightly oblivious to practical issues
  • often see socializing as a chore
  • cynical

* most and least appealing to me, respectively. i can talk to an INTP about theoretical things for hours and we "get" one another quickly. on the other hand, if they don't feel like doing something, no matter how necessary it is or how helpful it would be, sucks for you. all Ps are like this to a certain extent, but, in my experience, INTPs are the masters. and this is particularly unappealing for me personally because i am like that already :) i need someone who can help keep me on track.
 

Neutralpov

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Ok this is what I observe about INTx in general.

1) See cute rational awkward quiet boy who says really smart/funny things.

2) Develop limerence.

3) Flirt with cute rational awkward quiet boy who says really smart/funny things.

4) Become very pleased that he is pleased by attention and recipricating. Yay! This might go somewhere!

5) Suddenly notice that cute rational awkward quiet boy who says really smart/funny things is detatched/absent/forgets to call/forgets to write/is busy watching zombie movies, playing WoW or hanging out on 4Chan.

6) Take normal INTx nature personally and become overly emotional and imagine that he doesn't like me anymore.

7) INTx is frightened by what he sees as overreaction or irrational emotional outburst. Hides. This may lead to more emotional behavior.

8) INTx decides is not worth the trouble/really doesn't like me anymore because he is afraid of emotional behavior.

9) Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Cry. Date SFJs. Become annoyed. Want yet another elusive INTx.

I had to spend a year and a half on this web site (on top of years lived previously having run-ins with INTx boys) to learn that all that was going on here is that I was taking the INTx nature personally and by emoting got exactly the OPPOSITE of the desired effect.

*sighs*

I hope that some day I meet the right INTx and decide this painful "research" was worth all the trouble. :coffee:

How did you know this! It is so true in my experience! bah wish I read it years ago. :steam:

And ExAstrisSpes at this point can only control her behavior. I think she did good in stating what she will do. He isn't going to be controlled by her saying, "don't go on that trip" and I bet that consequences made him wake up.
 
V

violaine

Guest
To go from: "I don't think we're long-term compatible" to "We are in a long-term, committed relationship" in the span of a few short weeks, followed by "Surprise! We haven't been together long enough to take vacations together; I'm going to go to <insert remote, exotic, foreign place> next month for two weeks alone with a woman who I know has designs on me and I suspect she would rather me dump you for her so we can have a romantic trip, by the way do you want to spend New Year's with my family?" doesn't sound like a particularly stable relationship to me.

I trust him, but I did tell him if something happens on their trip I don't have a problem walking away from him. He looked particularly hurt by that, but it's not like he did anything to consider my feelings when he made the decision to go on the trip. I'm lucky he told me before he actually left.

Eek. What is the nature of the trip and their relationship?
 

Neutralpov

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Jun 29, 2009
Messages
310
Pros
  • calming
  • witty
  • insightful
  • honest
  • can objectively see negatives/weakness in other person (which completes my only half view of positives and potential sometimes)
  • tough mentally
  • smart (well the ones I know)
  • I can be proud of them and their intelligence
  • the fact that they weren't smutty/viewed intimacy as for select close few
  • can be quiet and spend quality time with me
  • don't expect me to be a certain way
  • clear-cut/simple no games
  • internal or centered vibe (as opposed to my external focus)
  • know themselves
  • is that enough? the one I knew was sx variant and I like that, helped me tone down my social variant and have depth in my life
    • meaningful conversation
    • they appreciate my strengths - Counseling masters and they love when I show it off (in a good way) and kinda awe my emotional and mental illness smarts (most people do NOT want to hear counseling talk or be told the truth when they run into me and go, hey I have a quick question about my crazy aunt...)

Cons:
  • passivity
  • obliviousness to emotions relational expectations from all previous relationships (just felt like I kept hitting potholes in a road where other guys knew "what the rules were" not type specific)
  • hide away at inconvenient times
  • don't speak up until something is a real problem when they should have imo b/c their feelings were hurt
  • some have 0 emotional availability and I avoid them!
  • hard to get to know and don't care that it is exhausting after a while
  • don't say I'm sorry or I was wrong when they need to!
  • the disappearing thing that Marm and Ex mentioned (reason I left one! dead on just didn't want it anymore)
  • sometimes arrogant/smug for no good reason
  • don't care how they come off socially which can seriously be embarrassing
  • too self-contained which hinders closeness and intimacy

All in all chemistry is great with a good INTP that can have a softer side and speak-up. My thoughts are that they spark and have instant chemistry and attract me ( I also like glasses and the ones I knew had them hehe) for the male part but I think I need someone closer in type (or like really good F side) after dating a few and being friends with the girls ones is awesomeeeeeee!
 
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ExAstrisSpes

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Aug 11, 2010
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MBTI Type
ENFJ
Eek. What is the nature of the trip and their relationship?

The nature of the trip is a two-week camping/backpacking trip. I'm under the impression they are going to rent a camper, and he's said that he's considering bringing a one-person tent just so that everything stays on the up-and-up. I get the impression she originally polled her friends to see if anyone would go with her, and my bf was the only person who responded.

The woman is a friend of his sister's, and he said in the past there was a mutual attraction that was never followed up on. He's expressed that fidelity is important to him and that when he's in a relationship it's like a switch has been tripped and he's most definitely just going to be with that person he is with.

I do trust him, but at the same time I kind of wonder why he didn't think to involve me in the trip-planning/decision-making process. Maybe he would have felt constrained in doing so, or that he didn't need to consult me on a trip that I wasn't invited or going on. I'm much more upset with him making the decision without my input than I am with him going on the trip.

I also neglected to mention that New Year's is in Hawaii, which I've never been to yet. He is also spending Christmas with me and my family out-of-town as well. He's commented that us meeting each other's families and spending the holidays together is a "big step".
 
V

violaine

Guest
Wow. Forgive me for saying but I would never be ok with that. It's lovely that you are so flexible and caring but I hope you don't get run over by this person. It's not a matter of trusting him, he's putting himself (and you) in a really precarious situation. i.e. How could you possibly feel safe in this situation?

Did something ever happen between them, how do you know he hasn't been seeing her at the same time as you and this is the trip where he's going to break it off with her?

I do know someone who might do something similar to this with no bad intention on his part because he felt sorry for the woman. But still. I hope he's calling you over those two weeks. Every night at least.
 
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