[MBTI General] Hurting feelings of other people

[Jeremy]

Hm.. I don't like to hurt people's feelings mostly because, if I do, I worry about it. Especially people I'm close to; or even someone I used to be close to. I worry about it.

And here's why: If I know (or could possibly expect) I did something that REALLY REALLY hurt someone (or failed to meet up to my own standards), then I will recall it at a later date and I WILL replay the situation in my head, and I will punish myself for it again, try as I might not to. I'm not just talking something that happened last week; I often beat myself up for something I said nearly 7 years ago in high school.

I've done some reading on the subject, and apparently it's my Enneagram Type that causes this sort of behavior. 9's feel that when we break the peace, we've done something horrible and upset our own balance. That means that we punish ourselves over it again and again, because we shouldn't have caused the conflict that we created. INFP + 9 = somewhat neurotic about being nice to people and living up to "ethical standards." Though I still mess up occasionally, I've learned to let go a little better now that I'm an RA. You have to. People get mad at you for things all the time, and you just have to grit your teeth and move on.

 

[BlueScreen]

Not only can you actually control your sword and aim straight for the heart, you can also get the opposing knight to shed his armor to make the job even easier.

You guys know how to get people to become vulnerable and open up to you instantly, somehow.

I know. I don't think it is intentional though, it just happens. Think half the time we are just used to it happening and don't even notice.

I had to chat to people while they waited for job interviews a few weeks back and think I managed to know their whole job history, current mental state and happiness with work, what they wanted out of the job, what they thought of the job they were applying for, what they thought of the field they were going to be working in and what they disapproved of in it, etc., all in about 5 minutes, and I was just having friendly conversation to pass the time. And that was just the factual stuff which I got told directly. The other stuff read from conversation was endless, ie. competence in the field, clarity of thought, etc. Funny thing was, I had nothing to do with the job interview, I was just welcoming party because someone thought I'd be good to keep them amused by talking (who would've thought ). And they probably said far less to the interviewers when they got in there.

 

[sleuthiness]

Why do you so much care not to hurt someone, that you will even put some bigger things in a risky situation?

Do you do it because you know how would you feel in their situation and base desicion on that?

Why would you find nonemotional reaction in highly emotion situations disturbing? From what I have seen Fs have this tendency and exactly in this kind of situations you can see how much T I am.

Yes, to a degree. I try to keep my emotions under control and as rational as possible. If people around me begin to act irrational through emotions I tend to stay calm, though I do have a good grasp on the spectrum of emotions so I do get that certain people need to react like a sudden spark to minuscule changes in their environment. What I don't understand is why people get upset because I don't react to their emotional outbursts in any or a positive way. Why is it my fault? I don't get it. I like talking with both Ts and very rational Fs. The rest can hit the road, jack.

And why is it assumed that it is a common INFP trait to be a dainty little girly? Weird.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yes, I do it because I know how I would feel in their shoes, I hate feeling emotional hurt and if I can protect someone against that I will try my hardest, even so far as putting myself in miserable situations that cause me emotional pain, I mean less so now because now I try to protect myself first, but I used to be overly sacrificing to protect anothers emotions.

At least now I know that some people can handle it better than I can, so I can step back and place more value on my own feelings these days.



I have to admit, before type awareness I did used to think "how can that person be so cold about this" in a situation that was emotionally charged. I wish I knew then what I know now because I would have kept some freinds who came off as cold, because I would have understood why they did it better.

Now I find myself explaining their behaviour to others who are baffled when they see it, and making them aware that some people process emotions differently.

It has really helped me to understand that behaviour which actually protects me from feeling unnecessary emotional hurt myself.

This crazy world of feelings huh?

With this we are coming to the real purpose of this thread.
I know this story just from the oppsite side.

I usually say to people that they don't have to take care of my emotions and that they can be direct about it .

But they don't listen to that and they still prefer classical methods in dealing with me and they will make many kinds of sacrifices.

What then leads to a situation that they get hurt simply because I don't value their sacrifice and I am the cold hearted son of a bitch that does not have any respect for their feelings.
But I made it clear from the start how will I act and that all the little things people care so much in life and which makes them act like this are totally irelevent to me. (I stand by this words)

So to avoid the drama I have started to fake that I actually care to solve this problem.

Do people do this simply because they have a hard time to imagine what is happening in my head?

 

[Amargith]

There are certain 'unwritten' rules about interaction with others. Failure to follow procedure confuses and hurts people as they cannot understand why you wouldn't adhere to them. Even if you warn them about it
And btw, those social conventions are there for a reason (though I sometimes also roll my eyes at them). They're there to smooth interaction between different kind of people out. It's highly inefficient to constantly be debating what you meant by that statement and why you expressed it that way. Use the conventional method and everyone will sort of get it.

 

[Siegfried]

There are certain 'unwritten' rules about interaction with others. Failure to follow procedure confuses and hurts people as they cannot understand why you wouldn't adhere to them. Even if you warn them about it
And btw, those social conventions are there for a reason (though I sometimes also roll my eyes at them). They're there to smooth interaction between different kind of people out. It's highly inefficient to constantly be debating what you meant by that statement and why you expressed it that way. Use the conventional method and everyone will sort of get it.

What is the conventional method, I am just trying to understand, so I know in the future.

 

[Amargith]

LOL, observe people in group, and you will know

 

[Siegfried]

LOL, observe people in group, and you will know

Fine, hehe. All I ask is please don't think everything is a communication. I hope thats things are ok if Ive done such things.

 

[Virtual ghost]

There are certain 'unwritten' rules about interaction with others. Failure to follow procedure confuses and hurts people as they cannot understand why you wouldn't adhere to them. Even if you warn them about it
And btw, those social conventions are there for a reason (though I sometimes also roll my eyes at them). They're there to smooth interaction between different kind of people out. It's highly inefficient to constantly be debating what you meant by that statement and why you expressed it that way. Use the conventional method and everyone will sort of get it.

I know that there are unwritten rules in this kind of things and I know them.
It is just that I don't see why people hold them as sacred and I have even warned them about my tendencys.


I am not sure that this is smoothering things in my situation since if I trully say what I mean about something or some earthly topic people will find it conrtoversial or shocking. So I am unable to just chat and be myself and I have to filter everthing because of this.

 

[sleuthiness]

Blame their primitive brains, not the individuals.

 

[Amargith]

I know that there are unwritten rules in this kind of things and I know them.
It is just that I don't see why people hold them as sacred and I have even warned them about my tendencys.


I am not sure that this is smoothering things in my situation since if I trully say what I mean about something or some earthly topic people will find it conrtoversial or shocking. So I am unable to just chat and be myself. So I have to filter everthing.

Yes and if you had me be myself in conversation without adhering to those social rules, I'd be a lot more pushy and in your comfort zone, a lot more in your face, physically touching you, hugging you and giggling your ears off while running circles around you, not to mention constantly letting my Ne off the leash and therefore jumping from one topic to the other every 2 seconds, making every weird association I could think of and talking your ears of and be bluntly honest about everything you asked, even if you really don't wanna know the answer. Social convention tells me not to do so, and to first check if the person is ok with those attitudes. If not, then I know that social convention is the way to go, however boring and stiffling that is. And even if it is acceptable to the person..I still tone it down and slowely dial up, to see what their limit is. The same applies to you, I fear

 

[Cimarron]

No, Amargith's right. It's just like in mathematics. There are symbols and methods that mathematicians have all agreed to use--not because that's the only way (there are other possible systems of symbols), but because it makes interaction and communication faster and less complicated with a uniform system. It's how languages were "invented" in the first place, I think.

Otherwise, we would have to build a new system of communication for each person we meet. To some extent, we already do this, but it's convenient to minimize the number of adjustments needed.

 

[Amargith]

+1 for explaining it in his T language

 

[Virtual ghost]

Blame their primitive brains, not the individuals.

Why do you think that I blame someone?
I am just point at a fact that there are problems in communication between me and others. Which is because it is impossible to get me excited with some simple life pleasures.

 

[sleuthiness]

Why do you think that I blame someone?
I am just point at a fact that there are problems in communication between me and others. Which is because it is impossible to get me excited with some simple life pleasures.

Are you referring to greetings or having sex?

 

[Virtual ghost]

+1 for explaining it in his T language

Did he?

Yes and if you had me be myself in conversation without adhering to those social rules, I'd be a lot more pushy and in your comfort zone, a lot more in your face, physically touching you, hugging you and giggling your ears off while running circles around you, not to mention constantly letting my Ne off the leash and therefore jumping from one topic to the other every 2 seconds, making every weird association I could think of and talking your ears of and be bluntly honest about everything you asked, even if you really don't wanna know the answer. Social convention tells me not to do so, and to first check if the person is ok with those attitudes. If not, then I know that social convention is the way to go, however boring and stiffling that is. And even if it is acceptable to the person..I still tone it down and slowely dial up, to see what their limit is. The same applies to you, I fear

To tell you the truth I think you are overrecting just to prove some point.
I was talking about the right to say "I don't care" or to explain myself and my position about the topic.
Believe me, I never ask questions if I don't want to know the answer and I think this world need more bluntness.

In a case you don't know you are talking to a guy who used to take his cloths of and walk around his school like that during a brake just for the sake of controversy.

No, Amargith's right. It's just like in mathematics. There are symbols and methods that mathematicians have all agreed to use--not because that's the only way (there are other possible systems of symbols), but because it makes interaction and communication faster and less complicated with a uniform system. It's how languages were "invented" in the first place, I think.

Otherwise, we would have to build a new system of communication for each person we meet. To some extent, we already do this, but it's convenient to minimize the number of adjustments needed.

True, but from my perspective this looks like the number of symbols and rules are forbiden because they undermine somebodys work for which he/she supposed to get some kind of a reward.
They are showing the nonsense of that persons argument.

 

[Amargith]

To tell you the truth I think you are overrecting just to prove some point.
I was talking about the right to say "I don't care" or to explain myself and my position about the topic.
Believe me, I never ask questions if I don't want to know the answer and I think this world need more bluntness.

In a case you don't know you are talking to a guy who you used to take his cloths of and walk around his school like that during a brake just for the sake of controversy.

LOL, and yet somehow you managed to miss my point, I think. Us talking one on one might still work, even though we don't do social conventions. You'd most likely get annoyed at my flightiness a bit, and at my overemotional responses, and I would probably occasionally get annoyed at your overuse of logic on everything. We both appreciate bluntness, so it wouldn't be a problem. I doubt we'd keep talking for long though. But put us in a group with people who aren't that keen on bluntness, and it will go wrong. On both fronts. Hence, you need social conventions in order to be able to convey your msg to other people in the group. And possibly the fact that you don't consider feelings important and therefore dismiss them, is what makes people not accept whatever you have to say that is actually quite interesting, because it hurts them to listen to you. I'm not saying you need to go all emo, but a bit of warmth goes a long way

 

[Virtual ghost]

LOL, and yet somehow you managed to miss my point, I think. Us talking one on one might still work, even though we don't do social conventions. You'd most likely get annoyed at my flightiness a bit, and at my overemotional responses, and I would probably occasionally get annoyed at your overuse of logic on everything. We both appreciate bluntness, so it wouldn't be a problem. I doubt we'd keep talking for long though. But put us in a group with people who aren't that keen on bluntness, and it will go wrong. On both fronts. Hence, you need social conventions in order to be able to convey your msg to other people in the group. And possibly the fact that you don't consider feelings important and therefore dismiss them, is what makes people not accept whatever you have to say that is actually quite interesting, because it hurts them to listen to you. I'm not saying you need to go all emo, but a bit of warmth goes a long way

I understand your point perfectly. I had this kinds of conversations many times before this one.
What I am saying is that agreeing with someone just to make them comfortable is nonsense by my opinion. In a case that it is touchy feely thing then I can understand. But I think that plenty of people are totally blinded by social norms. I could talk more about this.


As for my striptease, I did that couple of times to freak people out. When I turned 10 I stoped with this kind of behaviour. It was not funny any more.

 

[Cimarron]

But I think that plenty of people are totally blinded by social norms.

Is that your central point?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Is that your central point?

This thread has many topics in itself so there is no something that is central argument. But this surely isone of the key parts. I am listening if you have something to say.

Are you referring to greetings or having sex?

I am not 100% sure at what you are shooting at here.