[NF] NFs and feelings of other people

[Anja]

This caught my eye and I dropped in to drag something over from the bitchin' thread.

Stop yer damn generalizing, dammit.

I'm watching you watching me. . .

 

[ajblaise]

This caught my eye and I dropped in to drag something over from the bitchin' thread.

Stop yer damn generalizing, dammit.

I'm watching you watching me. . .

Well watch your back, Anja.

 

[Anja]

Is that a threat? If it is, I ain't got time for threats.

 

[ajblaise]

Is that a threat? If it is, I ain't got time for threats.

Oh I'll fight a INFP, I don't care.

 

[tibby]

Why NFs care about others peoples feelings so much?

From my own personal viewpoint I think it's just one of those attributes in the Feeling function that just makes NF's "in-tune" with the other persons feelings, as we take things through our intuition and feeling, we sense this more? I don't think it's a better or a worse thing than Thinking, it's just how it is for NF's. The difference (I guess) with SF's is that they are not "in-tune" with the invisible environment as much and so the feeling might be more "concrete" in a way.

Personally, I care simply cause I can't be without caring. If I feel what others are feeling, how could I ignore it? I couldn't.

Do you think that all people are equally soft at core?

I actually think all human beings are soft at core, but how deep the core is, that's a whole another thing. I don't believe in good or bad, but I do believe in selfeshness, manipulation and deception; all come down to motives. Therefore I think it's not valid to say I'd be easily mislead or just manipulated, though I might seem this way to new acquintances and outside world in general.



Also NFs say that they can feel other peoples feeling as their own.
I am interested in which way does this really efect you.

Torns me apart internally. I'm deeply affected by others suffering and just want to make it better.

Do you give empathy/simpathy to others(when they need it) in a way that you are aware of it or in a more spontaneous way?
This is probably part where J/P will play a role.

I rarely lose my "composure" in showing my real, deep feelings, but as they exist, I usually choose a "safer" route in exposing them, so when I e.g. feel extremely emphathetic (as in feel the other persons feelings) I might actually show it to him/her as sympathy , as oppose to the "genuine empathy" that I am feeling. I am controlled in my sympathizing manner.

I've noticed that when I'm listening to someone tell me something sad, my body language and face especially reflect the inner empathy I have within, but the unability to be "natural" in actually helping them out bothers me. I could never "cry with somebody", I can't sympathize on an emotional level, even if I wanted to show them it. Although I feel like I'm not a good listener, many have said that I am, and I know people easily confide to me, even if I didn't have anything to offer them (enough).


Also it looks to me that one of the greatest fears of NFs is that they will be in bad mood so that they will not notice that the person who they love is suffering and it needs their help and care.
Is this true?

I don't know about "greatest" fear but I always feel pretty bad about myself for throwing my problems into smbd elses lap.


I think that probably all of this works for SFs also and I wouldn't mind to get their opinion on this as well.

My sister is an ISFJ and I've noticed she's extremely emotional but... just different in handling this information. She's more practical I guess.

 

[heart]

My curtains are tightly closed. Nobody is gonna be watching me. I also won't answer front door or telephone so don't even try it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

My curtains are tightly closed. Nobody is gonna be watching me. I also won't answer front door or telephone so don't even try it.

I know the story known as - "Introversion clouds all"

 

[ajblaise]

My curtains are tightly closed. Nobody is gonna be watching me. I also won't answer front door or telephone so don't even try it.

heart, I thought you were one of the good INFPs, but now you're not safe either..

 

[Cameigons]

Why NFs care about others peoples feelings so much?

I like Evan's evolutionary explanation about that

To me it looks like that NFs can care so much about other peoples feelings that this skill can block their ability to operate normally during the day.
Is this because you are afraid of creating enemies or when you hurt someone, you hate yourself for the rest of the day.
I know it is both but I am interested in ratio.

Do you think that all people are equally soft at core?

Operate normally? To me successfully navigating the social environment (again shamelessly quoting Evan's post, couldn't have said it better myself), is a big part of what makes my day.

It can happen that NFs(usually ENFPs) will be so friendly that he/she will say something awkward or hurtful (by their standards) and they will apologize over and over again and in the end they will feel bad about it.
Why so defensive attitude?

Once(if) they get to know you better they'll stop doing that. Or not, if you're a difficult person. j/k

When it comes to talking with me they can sometimes end up somewhat disturbed because they realise that they didn't even scratch the surface.
What can make them even more uncomfortable. (I presume)

That's not disturbing to me at least, that's relieving. I don't count on everyone being touchy-feely. I'm normally okay with that.
Maybe that's because I live surrounded by some strong Ts.

Do you give empathy/simpathy to others(when they need it) in a way that you are aware of it or in a more spontaneous way?
This is probably part where J/P will play a role.

To do something to help the other person to feel better is definitely my first impulse. What I will actually do depends on the situation.

Also it looks to me that one of the greatest fears of NFs is that they will be in bad mood so that they will not notice that the person who they love is suffering and it needs their help and care.
Is this true?

Yes.

 

[heart]

heart, I thought you were one of the good INFPs, but now you're not safe either..

Anybody peeking in my curtains is going to get a squirt of water in their eye...you've been warned!

 

[Glycerine]

Why NFs care about others peoples feelings so much?

Well, the emotional energy of others affects me a lot so if they feel stressed, I start to feel stressed...
To me it looks like that NFs can care so much about other peoples feelings that this skill can block their ability to operate normally during the day.
Uh... I don't know
Is this because you are afraid of creating enemies or when you hurt someone, you hate yourself for the rest of the day.
I know it is both but I am interested in ratio.
uhhh... not exactly, I just don't like to hurt other people and i feel guilty when I do

Do you think that all people are equally soft at core?

no but you never know how sensititive people are going to be so I test the waters before I joke around or say something controversial.
It can happen that NFs(usually ENFPs) will be so friendly that he/she will say something awkward or hurtful (by their standards) and they will apologize over and over again and in the end they will feel bad about it.
Why so defensive attitude? Well, i don't like to offend people and some people have "softer cores" than others so I want to ward off any potential offense

When it comes to talking with me they can sometimes end up somewhat disturbed because they realise that they didn't even scratch the surface.
What can make them even more uncomfortable. (I presume)
what? a bit vague.



Also NFs say that they can feel other peoples feeling as their own.
I am interested in which way does this really efect you.
yes, most definitely, if someone gets angry about something , I start to tense up because of the negative energy.

 

[Wild horses]

I hate it when people get their feelings hurt.. I can actually feel their pain so strong that it is almost phsyical like someone has stabbed me in the heart... I have always been able to deal with my own hurt feelings far better than the hurt feelings of others. So I get almost afraid of causing people pain.. this can owrk the other way where I feel joy and love for and with someone so much that it hurts (And I don't mean someone really special it could be someone I have just met on the bus but shared a special moment with... weird)

 

[targobelle]

It's so easy to get wrapped up and lost in others, so easy for me to get caught up with someone else, that I forgot about me......


I think NF's are like that, we can at times be so intune with it and times where we can go numb and tune it out, times where we can see and feel it but shrug it off, and times where it causes emotional distress. I think age and personal interests definitely play a huge part in this.

 

[disregard]

Let me explain caring from my point of view.

Someone relates their issue to me. I see it as an exercise in helping them. I don't have a lot of caring. That doesn't mean I wish them ill or don't like them. I just see caring as a more of a process of listening/offering advice/occasional "oh really" "oh wow.." etc. It may come across as empathy, but it's not.

Empathy... empathy.. empathy controls my choice of behavior. It gives me my value system.. but it doesn't really kick in when I hear some story.

 

[Snow Turtle]

Why NFs care about others peoples feelings so much?

From my own personal viewpoint I think it's just one of those attributes in the Feeling function that just makes NF's "in-tune" with the other persons feelings, as we take things through our intuition and feeling, we sense this more? I don't think it's a better or a worse thing than Thinking, it's just how it is for NF's. The difference (I guess) with SF's is that they are not "in-tune" with the invisible environment as much and so the feeling might be more "concrete" in a way.

My interpretation is that SF's are in tune with the environment, but intuitives might have the advantage over us in terms of guessing what the actual situation is.

Have NFs here ever been empathetic and then suddenly realise that they were completely wrong in their assessment? Does that ever occur, how do you react to it?

 

[Tiltyred]

Why NFs care about others peoples feelings so much?
I think it's physical and neurological, just how we're wired.

To me it looks like that NFs can care so much about other peoples feelings that this skill can block their ability to operate normally during the day.

Yes, sometimes.

Is this because you are afraid of creating enemies or when you hurt someone, you hate yourself for the rest of the day.

I'm seriously not afraid of anybody. It's just, I have spoken in anger or sarcasm or whatever and then later found out something like that person's brother just died and have been tortured that I did something to add to their pain. Not just the rest of the day -- pretty much the rest of my life. I don't forget that stuff, and every time it comes up, I feel it again. So however much I can do to minimize it going forward, I try.

Do you think that all people are equally soft at core?
I believe they are not.

It can happen that NFs(usually ENFPs) will be so friendly that he/she will say something awkward or hurtful (by their standards) and they will apologize over and over again and in the end they will feel bad about it.
Why so defensive attitude?

I think that happens more when you're young. Eventually you learn through experience to pretend to let it go.

When it comes to talking with me they can sometimes end up somewhat disturbed because they realise that they didn't even scratch the surface.
What can make them even more uncomfortable. (I presume)

You pride yourself on being inscrutable to NFs? Ha.

Also NFs say that they can feel other peoples feeling as their own.
I am interested in which way does this really effect you.

It causes me to isolate so I can relax.

 

[BlueScreen]

You really need to make the distinction between NFJ and NFP. I know an ENFP with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (in my opinion at least) that doesn't care about the feelings of others at all. She's not apologetic either. Her stance is that her feelings are always completely justified, no matter how anyone reacts. I'm not saying all NFPs are like this, but Fi is much less likely to directly care about other people's feelings than NFJ. That's because the value judgments of Fi users are internally validated.

Yeh, there is a danger in drawing conclusions about your mirror type ie. INFJ-ENFP. Your mirror type can seem completely f**ked up to you because you can't translate their behaviour very easily. And interaction with them without realising this can sometimes lead to pretty messed up relationships.

It can be more obvious a thinker works in a different way when you see them because the distinction is clear, they aren't walking in your area. But seeing a feeler who works in a different way and still calls it feeling can be puzzling. Really, all you need to do to see through it, is realise the initial instinct is invalid, and you can start looking at the situation more objectively. I made the same mistake first time I read your post.

On Fi, it is less likely to care about others feelings than care about others. Feelings are a surface manifestation of what lies beneath. Smile, cry, be angry all you want, as long as you are okay, etc. The ENFP friend might care less about how her own feelings manifest because of this. Though it is likely she has a problem, or dislikes you, if she doesn't care how the manifestations of them affect you. Or else she sees your view as completely unjustified, which is common in mirror relationships.

Read the middle paragraph here:
Mirror relations between psychological ("personality") types

 

[Lady_X]

^^ that's really interesting!! do you have the patience to tell me more about this introverted feeling...the process of it...because it doesn't feel introverted...what is it...i mean...is it why we can appear not to care...aloof or what...because i know i'm both...i empathize when someone needs it...but i allow space when they need it too...maybe that's misinterpreted?? maybe i'm wrong...maybe they don't want space? maybe i'm projecting because i like space when i'm upset?

sorry...should i just msg you? or is this is relevant?

 

[redacted]

Yeh, there is a danger in drawing conclusions about your mirror type. Your mirror type can seem completely f**ked up to you because you can't translate their behaviour very easily. And interaction with them without realising this can lead to pretty messed up relationships.

It can be more obvious a thinker works in a different way when you see them because the distinction is clear, they aren't walking in your area. But seeing a feeler who works in a different way and still calls it feeling can be puzzling. Really, all you need to do to see it though, is realise the initial instinct is invalid, and you can start looking at the situation more objectively. I made the same mistake first time I read your post.

On Fi it is less likely to care about others feelings than care about others. Feelings are a surface manifestation of what lies beneath. Smile, cry, be angry all you want, as long as you are okay, etc. The ENFP friend might care less about how her own feelings manifest because of this. Though it is likely she has a problem, or dislikes you, if she doesn't care how the manifestations of them affect you.

To be clear, I wasn't at all trying to generalize to all ENFPs. My ENFP best friend is incredibly empathetic, and is probably the "best" person I know. Most healthy ENFPs are amazing people.

I was just trying to make clear that not all members of a type are the same. This girl happens to have NPD...I think she likes me as much as she can like a person; she's not angry at me at all, she just sees me as a tool in her grandiose plans instead of a person of equal value. Honestly, it barely even upsets me at this point -- I think of her more as a force of nature -- I can't really change her.

My thoughts on her are far from invalid, though. It's not that I can't understand her. I can actually understand her incredibly well. For this reason, she trusts me more than almost anyone else -- I know how to speak her language in her terms, and can have a more useful conversation with her than almost anyone else (she mostly just blows off everyone).

Anyway, just an example of an NF who literally doesn't care about other people.


Oh, and regarding Fi -- there is nothing about Fi that would directly care at all about other people. Most Fi users happen to have values that include the well-being of others, but the whole point of INTROVERTED feeling is that it's validated internally. Extroverted Feeling on the other hand is validated by the environment, so it's more direct in relation to others.

I'm not saying people that USE Fi are necessarily less empathetic than people that USE Fe (everyone uses a bit of both anyway). There's much more to empathy than Feeling. I'm just saying the function itself has nothing directly to do with other people.

 

[BlueScreen]

I'm just saying the function itself has nothing directly to do with other people.

Yeh, true. We probably know the feeling from Fi and associate it because we see the other with Ne. Hence empathy forms. I don't have much of an idea about it, except when what is said seems to contradict the reality I live in.

Like anyone can show me the sources for what they have read about it. But from just sitting here experiencing it, most things can be pretty easy to disprove.

p.s. I think you miss the point on invalid. If you think you can read an ENFP you would not have written the initial post. My mum is an INFJ, she has known me 27 years, we are close (probably more than you and your friend). She is mature. She is intelligent, knowledgeable, philosophical. She respects me, wants the best for me, cares about me, agrees with me, but on a deeper level has never understood me, or the way I work. I still surprise her. I don't surprise that many ENFPs. So being certain you know, is not a healthy perspective. Knowing that you don't know is the best way to approach it. It will be healthy for your relationship with your ENFP friend also. The girl was probably messed up, probably not NPD. I knew a lot who were close, but until I met a true case of it I didn't realise how naive a diagnosis it was to call the others that.