[MBTI General] who're more manipulative? entp or infj

[DigitalMethod]

Aw. Why?

Lack of respect for mother from father.
Father thinks he is captain of the ship, when really family is a unit.
Father can't get over ego to get a stable job.

Summarized: low emotional IQ.

Perhaps I am just bias against ENTPs though.

 

[DigitalMethod]

"...
In good and in bad.
In sickness and in health.
......."

This won't end well.

Exactly.
I can't put my finger on why your words fit so well.
But they just do.

 

[Synarch]

Lack of respect for mother from father.
Father thinks he is captain of the ship, when really family is a unit.
Father can't get over ego to get a stable job.

Summarized: low emotional IQ.

Perhaps I am just bias against ENTPs though.

I do not think this is uncommon. It's a two-fold problem: ENTP's are naturally self-absorbed (one must always be on guard) and rather helpless in certain practical emotional regards and INFJ's sometimes have a need to be caretakers. If both parties are not strong on their own it could be unhealthy as this can tap in effectively into the weakness of the other.

 

[DigitalMethod]

I do not think this is uncommon. It's a two-fold problem: ENTP's are naturally self-absorbed (one must always be on guard) and rather helpless in certain practical emotional regards and INFJ's sometimes have a need to be caretakers. If both parties are not strong on their own it could be unhealthy as this can tap in effectively into the weakness of the other.

Well it sounds like you've done your homework.
So I'm sure you deserve a relationship with a INFJ gal.
(Hah, that sounded really sarcastic but I had no intention of it being so.)

Yes yes quite true.
I think narcissism is the closest personality disorder for ENTPs.
The 16 Types.info - Socionics and Oldham personality styles

I find that to be true - at least in my experiences.

 

[DigitalMethod]

"Poetic justice" will never get you anywhere; I despise the idea, as it only ever seems like the correct solution in the heat of the moment when you are not thinking about the matter from an objective point of view. In personal relations, it only makes things worse, especially if the other person is very sensitive; if not stopped early on, it would easily spiral out of control, with both people getting more hurt (though more so the one who is not taking the moral high ground). It's not that hard to explain how what she said was wrong and how it made you feel while not rashly lashing back--which makes you just as much in the wrong as the other person, if not more.

Justice without mercy is too cold. Mercy without justice ignores the need for correction. There has to be a balance. If things like this cannot be handled calmly, that balance will never be achieved, preventing any progress from being made.

I was going to reply to ByMySword and say something similar.
But yeah.
I'm young.
But I've learned when someone's rude to you, or mean, just ignore it.
Shit happens, that's life.
It's all for the better if you can just ignore it and get your mind off of it.
Maybe approach the person later objectively.

 

[ByMySword]

"Poetic justice" will never get you anywhere; I despise the idea, as it only ever seems like the correct solution in the heat of the moment when you are not thinking about the matter from an objective point of view. In personal relations, it only makes things worse, especially if the other person is very sensitive; if not stopped early on, it would easily spiral out of control, with both people getting more hurt (though more so the one who is not taking the moral high ground). It's not that hard to explain how what she said was wrong and how it made you feel while not rashly lashing back--which makes you just as much in the wrong as the other person, if not more.

Justice without mercy is too cold. Mercy without justice ignores the need for correction. There has to be a balance. If things like this cannot be handled calmly, that balance will never be achieved, preventing any progress from being made.

Agreed, there does have to be a balance.

But I like the concept of poetic justice. There are times when it is justified.

As for taking the moral high ground, I do believe I apologized and edited my initial statement, whereas such I continued to attempt to solve the problem in a calmer manner. Any other time I wouldn't mention this, but I still have not recieved Apology One from Rogue.

I'm not fucking Jesus, so don't expect me to be. But when I'm mad, God damnit I'm going to let someone know about it. And this conversation is starting to wear thin.

You're telling me I'm being too judgemental (infJ), but you're delivering judgement to me. And that makes no sense whatsoever.

Everything else I do agree with, and I'm not one to lash out irrationally. I'm usually very objective. But I'm human. I have emotions. And Rogue got on my nerve for the last time, especially making her initial post public.

I've struck back, I've apologized, I've calmed down. But one more word about this and I'm probably going to fucking snap!!!!!!!!

Don't presume to tell me about being objective in personal relationships.

I think its all time we got back on topic, back where I was before this all blew up.

 

[Silent Stars]

Agreed, there does have to be a balance.

But I like the concept of poetic justice. There are times when it is justified.

As for taking the moral high ground, I do believe I apologized and edited my initial statement, whereas such I continued to attempt to solve the problem in a calmer manner. Any other time I wouldn't mention this, but I still have not recieved Apology One from Rogue.

I'm not fucking Jesus, so don't expect me to be. But when I'm mad, God damnit I'm going to let someone know about it. And this conversation is starting to wear thin.

You're telling me I'm being too judgemental (infJ), but you're delivering judgement to me. And that makes no sense whatsoever.

Everything else with I do agree with, and I'm not one to lash out irrationally. I'm usually very objective. But I'm human. I have emotions. And Rogue got on my nerve for the last time, especially making her initial post public.

I've struck back, I've apologized, I've calmed down. But one more word about this and I'm probably going to fucking snap!!!!!!!!

Don't presume to tell me about being objective in personal relationships.

I think its all time we got back on topic, back where I was before this all blew up.

You're taking what I said way too personally. I have nothing against you; after all, why would I? I don't even know you. The only part of what I said that was specifically directed at you was the last sentence of my first paragraph; the rest is really just a general statement.

 

[ByMySword]

I was going to reply to ByMySword and say something similar.
But yeah.
I'm young.
But I've learned when someone's rude to you, or mean, just ignore it.
Shit happens, that's life.
It's all for the better if you can just ignore it and get your mind off of it.
Maybe approach the person later objectively.

I love how the one time you choose to lash back at someone, people automatically assume you do that all the time.

 

[ByMySword]

You're taking what I said way too personally. I have nothing against you; after all, why would I? I don't even know you. The only part of what I said that was specifically directed at you was the last sentence of my first paragraph; the rest is really just a general statement.

Right now, I'm in a very personal mood.

Everything inherent in this conversation relates to the conflict earlier, so yeah, I'm taking this personal.

 

[DigitalMethod]

I love how the one time you choose to lash back at someone, people automatically assume you do that all the time.

Well I'm bias and just had a quite similar and personal experience in more ways than one to the "infant" girl thing you were talking about.
I felt like defending the position of "ignore shit that happens in your life" stance because of that.

 

[Silent Stars]

I love how the one time you choose to lash back at someone, people automatically assume you do that all the time.

I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly didn't.

Right now, I'm in a very personal mood.

Everything inherent in this conversation relates to the conflict earlier, so yeah, I'm taking this personal.

Well, I'm sorry, but I didn't mean for it to be, ok?

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Wow, I feel like I have some great power of manipulation that I haven't been using.

 

[Rogue]

I'm sorry. Really and truely. please stop with the public humiliation. I posted that not to offend but I didnt think you were like that. I was just trying to be friends, I didn't know how bad I got on your nerves, now everyone does.

I'm sorry. You have no idea how sorry.. yeah you hurt me, pretty damn bad, embarassed the hell out of me too..again...so sorry...

back to your original topic...

 

[violaine]

Now that I can finally reply to this:

Yeah, I'll never date someone of my same type again. We're so alike, its awesome for awhile.

The INFJ I was with I honestly loved. But she was a very unhealthy and unstable INFJ. She didn't know what she wanted. She was fine with the day in day out routine.

To a point, I'm the same way. But I realized I wanted somone more adventurous I could get out and do things with. I'm restless, damnit.

I had to end it. That was the hard part.

What a shame....

I always thought it would be totally awesome to date another INFJ. But maybe only within a certain 'bandwidth'. I am very restless too, that's why I thought it would be a good match. I need someone who can dream with me and then is happy to go out into the world and have adventures.

But one of the main reasons is because she was very unstable and very needy. I need a partner, not an infant.

Let me put it this way. Anyone seen Fatal Attraction?

This chick was Glenn Close all over.

Ewww, no!! I hate super-needy by nature in a partner (without good reason, I don't mean due to physical illness). It's just too hard for me to constantly factor that into everything.

I will still hold out hope that certain INFJ can go together though.

 

[Silent Stars]

I think it certainly could work, but that depends on the people involved, of course.

 

[SillySapienne]

What a shame....

I always thought it would be totally awesome to date another INFJ.

I will still hold out hope that certain INFJ can go together though.

I think there are sooooooooooo many other variables aside from MBTI type that factor into making each person, well, unique.

If I met a male ENFP who was uniquely awesome in his own way, I would so be open to developing a romantic relationship with him.

For example, I think that Trent Reznor might be an ENFP, and I am borderline in love with him.

Finding someone who shares your outlook on life and who really gets you would be sublime.

 

[violaine]

I think there are sooooooooooo many other variables aside from MBTI type that factor into making each person, well, unique.

If I met a male ENFP who was uniquely awesome in his own way, I would so be open to developing a romantic relationship with him.

For example, I think that Trent Reznor might be an ENFP, and I am borderline in love with him.

Finding someone who shares your outlook on life and who really gets you would be sublime.

This is true!

 

[Kestrel]

I think there are sooooooooooo many other variables aside from MBTI type that factor into making each person, well, unique.

If anything, this board helps me understand how much variation there is within the types. I don't think I've met or seen another INFJ (male) that operates like I do. We have the same function preferences, sure, but we don't use them the same way. The type categories feel so restricting sometimes..

 

[Udog]

It's a shame that threads where INFJs are honest about how they interact with people always turn out like this.

I think there is ALOT that INFJs can teach us about human nature and personal interaction. Instead of judging, it would have been nice if we could have delved into the topic even deeper. For example, this stood out:

We automatically 'ping' others silently for signs and then match for meaning.

What is the nature of these 'pings'? What is the meaning you search for? How do you feel and what do you do if you send a 'ping' out and get a completely unexpected response?

Anyway, thanks INFJs for your honesty!

 

[kyuuei]

I honestly didn't expect so much crazy behavior on this thread. I particular observe the women reacting to this defensively and personally.

Wow, the reactions to BMS's admission in this thread are fascinating to me. Did you all miss the part where he said he wouldn't hurt anyone intentionally? Do all of you really never do or say anything that will benefit you? Is this the 'Saints R Us' forum?

I think I'll ask you to marry me for this statement here Lol.

Okay, here we go...

No, I did not miss the part where he said he wouldn't hurt anyone intentionally. Nor did I miss the words "values" and "ethics" in his description.

However, I also seemed to catch the phrases "but she wants it, so it's cool", "I have the person in the palm of my hands", "I would never advise someone I cared about to do the wrong thing", "the advice I give is never harmful", etc., etc.

For one, by definition you cannot "manipulate" someone into doing something they want.

Secondly, am I the only one concerned with someone who thinks that they know what is right for another person and manipulates that person to carry out related decisions?! Even if he does have the incredible gift of knowing what's right for others (an admission that I find both scary and narcissistic), where are the ethics in that?

I didn't miss the part where you took something so vague to make a point on a thread so personal. And to be honest, I don't think you should be judging people on how they conduct their personal lives. There was nothing in his statement that could have been taken personal, and yet you got defensive about his choice of words.

And yes, I believe you are the only one concerned with people trying to figure out what's best for those closest to them. I'd hate to see your friends.. I have asked his opinion on several situations, and had genuinely awesome and helpful advice each and every time. Showing people a different, and very obvious light when they're facing the wrong way is never a bad thing. I'm shocked you would even attempt to say otherwise to try and back up your defensive stance.

No one can fault you for being honest.

I believe you did that the instant you made such a quick and judgmental post.

you can have the win.

I'm saddened that you think anyone 'won' anything from that crazy situation.

So, would I be correct in thinking that you believe one wrong turn deserves another?

I'm one to believe that usually human nature supercedes that logic. I'm also one to believe no one should be crucified for being natural and honest.

"Poetic justice" will never get you anywhere; I despise the idea, as it only ever seems like the correct solution in the heat of the moment when you are not thinking about the matter from an objective point of view. Blahblahblah.

You're taking what I said way too personally. I have nothing against you; after all, why would I? I don't even know you. The only part of what I said that was specifically directed at you was the last sentence of my first paragraph; the rest is really just a general statement.

I also like this part here, where you proceed to read that he strongly values poetic justice, and you start to criticize it anyways. Then you expect him not to take things personally, after a very personal and heated debate. Instead of apologizing for your mayhap cross words, you simply justify them by sayign he's being personal. Blaming someone's sensitivity isn't the right way to go about things.

It's a shame that threads where INFJs are honest about how they interact with people always turn out like this.

I think there is ALOT that INFJs can teach us about human nature and personal interaction. Instead of judging, it would have been nice if we could have delved into the topic even deeper. For example, this stood out:

What is the nature of these 'pings'? What is the meaning you search for? How do you feel and what do you do if you send a 'ping' out and get a completely unexpected response?

Anyway, thanks INFJs for your honesty!

Now we're actually getting somewhere. I think manipulation has a lot to do with observing human behavior and figuring out what people will respond to and what they will not. Sending out little tests to see how they're picked up is a big part of that, and I do find myself 'fishing' for what I should say and how to handle a situation when I'm level headed enough for it.

I think INFJs have an awesome ability to not only care and empathize with people, but to take a detached perspective on things (unless it comes to themselves ) while balancing all of that on the quick-witted scale of experience. It makes for a very good manipulation set-up, though admittably I have never seen the INFJ I know to do anything even selfish in nature. If it benefits him, it does. If it does not though, he's still just as happy to be honest and open about what he evaluates. A pleasent surprise like a win-win isn't common, but when it occurs all the better is the attitude I've seen.