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[MBTI General] Can you move from J to P?

Cindyrella

New member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
98
MBTI Type
INFP
I took the MBTI (at humanmetrics) maybe a year or two ago and was typed as an INFJ. After taking a pencil-and-paper version of the MBTI a few weeks ago with someone who is licensed to administer it, my type came out to an INFP, with my preference scores being I (19), N (35), F (0), and P (13). I took the test at humanmetrics again today to see what result I'd get, and I was again deemed an INFP, this time with a much stronger NF.

Anyway, is it really possible to go from a J to a P? Do you think it may have been a fluke the first time? Is it common to get a different result if you take the MBTI more than once?
 

Mycroft

The elder Holmes
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,068
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
While one can certainly go from having more of the characteristics associated with a J to having more of the characteristics associated with a P, "going from J to P" would be such a fundamental shift in psychology that I have to doubt the extent to which it is possible.
 

Cindyrella

New member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
98
MBTI Type
INFP
While one can certainly go from having more of the characteristics associated with a J to having more of the characteristics associated with a P, "going from J to P" would be such a fundamental shift in psychology that I have to doubt the extent to which it is possible.

That's what I thought as well. Ultimately it is the INFP description I identify with...I just wondered what others believed.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
I've heard of several INFP's mistyped as INFJ's and vice versa. I think certain tests have a weakness for distinguishing between the J and P for INF's.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Your type cant change, though you may start acting like more of a J when you're a P and confuse yourself for a J. You can only be one or the other, its about the way your unconscious mind works, not your personality.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
In MBTI, J/P are not traits in themselves, it describes whether you extrovert a perceiving function (S or N) or a judging function (T or F).

INFP = Fi + Ne
INFJ = Ni + Fe

So shifting from J to P means that your primary and secondary functions are also different -- you have a completely different basis for your personality.

So usually it means, if you shifted to a P mode now and feel the INFP is better a description, you were forced to find closure on things while younger that you would have rather left open-ended. Environment, family, certain occupations/school, all of these things impact our ability and desire for closure...
 

Cindyrella

New member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
98
MBTI Type
INFP
So usually it means, if you shifted to a P mode now and feel the INFP is better a description, you were forced to find closure on things while younger that you would have rather left open-ended. Environment, family, certain occupations/school, all of these things impact our ability and desire for closure...

Can you give an example of this?
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
INTP
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5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
In MBTI, J/P are not traits in themselves, it describes whether you extrovert a perceiving function (S or N) or a judging function (T or F).

INFP = Fi + Ne
INFJ = Ni + Fe

So shifting from J to P means that your primary and secondary functions are also different -- you have a completely different basis for your personality.

So usually it means, if you shifted to a P mode now and feel the INFP is better a description, you were forced to find closure on things while younger that you would have rather left open-ended. Environment, family, certain occupations/school, all of these things impact our ability and desire for closure...

Well, usually when you're in that situation, it seems like you were forced to find closure in those things, but otherwise would have preferred not to. Perhaps would have been happier and functioned better if you didn't. Hence at your essence you were always a P who was forced to act like a J. Now you're just discovering something about yourself that was always true, your temperament did not change.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
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594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Can you give an example of this?

Oh, well, for example, if you are raised in a family with J parents or some other sort of regimented environment (such as boys who go to military school), often a P will develop skills that are closure-oriented... because they are not permitted to be open-ended.

Or perhaps your parents are off-balance in some way. So if you are open-ended, perhaps they take advantage of you or emotionally manipulate/hurt you. Being open-ended is not only not rewarding, but is punishable and/or leads to pain. So you cannot afford to be open-ended, if you want to survive and keep your sense of self intact.

Or perhaps your peers are very ambitious and controlling and driving, so to either survive them or accommodate them you have to become very closure-oriented as well, rather than let things draw out.

Some people here have described how they had to become more closure-oriented because of a job they had, that they couldn't quit.

Does that help?
 

Cindyrella

New member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
98
MBTI Type
INFP
Thanks Jennifer, that does help. My P tendencies were not encouraged by my parents and were certainly not encouraged in K-12 school. So that definitely makes sense. Where I'm at in life now, I am comfortable and have come to terms with that part of my personality.
 

Vicki

New member
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Jul 16, 2007
Messages
73
MBTI Type
????
I think it's possible

yeah, that happened for me too.
I was always a J for any test I took and my family sure believed it. :rolli:
but then my uncle started talking more and more about "expanding your horizons" and I always respected his opinion, so I listened.
I met different people, listened to their point of views.
I met my BESTEST friend and she really changed me!
the way I think, act, dress, talk, everything!
we talked about everything and we loved eachother!!:headphne:
then I started getting P in every test.
plus, I was always like, "hmm, 'learn to walk in other
people's shoes?' I'll try that!"
so yeah, I think it's possible.
 

indigo2020

New member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
122
MBTI Type
INFJ
Your type cant change, though you may start acting like more of a J when you're a P and confuse yourself for a J. You can only be one or the other, its about the way your unconscious mind works, not your personality.
I am starting to appreciate you at times like this. :hug:
 

indigo2020

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May 16, 2007
Messages
122
MBTI Type
INFJ
Well, usually when you're in that situation, it seems like you were forced to find closure in those things, but otherwise would have preferred not to. Perhaps would have been happier and functioned better if you didn't. Hence at your essence you were always a P who was forced to act like a J. Now you're just discovering something about yourself that was always true, your temperament did not change.
Exactly.

Question: Do you think a INFP could look like an INTP because their true personality was twisted due to family abuse issues? My mom took the test on humanetrics and came out an INFP yet she has a lot of the characteristics of an INTP. I asked her if the INFP description fit her more as a child and she yes, absolutely, but that she was discouraged from being too dreamy, etc. So she attempted to look like an INTP. Her father was a very abusive, alcoholic INTJ.
 

bluebell

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Apr 30, 2007
Messages
1,485
MBTI Type
INTP
Oh, well, for example, if you are raised in a family with J parents or some other sort of regimented environment (such as boys who go to military school), often a P will develop skills that are closure-oriented... because they are not permitted to be open-ended.

Or perhaps your parents are off-balance in some way. So if you are open-ended, perhaps they take advantage of you or emotionally manipulate/hurt you. Being open-ended is not only not rewarding, but is punishable and/or leads to pain. So you cannot afford to be open-ended, if you want to survive and keep your sense of self intact.

Thank you, Jennifer - I like what you wrote. Yeah, I was brought up to be very J, it was dangerous to not act J when growing up.

But, now having recently thrown off most of that shite, I'm now very P. Spontaneously came out a few years ago. J would be more useful at work and at home which is why I can see that it is must be my natural preference if it's so different from what would be more useful. lol

This spontaneous emergence of P in my mid-thirties from throwing off my past is actually one of the things that's made me more interested in MBTI theory - I've learnt a lot about myself in the past few months from it. And I can see more clearly why some things from the past were so stressful and difficult for me - I was being forced to behave and act in ways that were too alien for me to be able to even fake.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
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Jul 1, 2007
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8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
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4w5
I don't think it's technically possible to switch type according to current understanding of the theory. The preferences are supposed to be inborn. However, they are only preferences, and can be impacted by the environment. I guess I should ask you, have you had less activity, and less need to structure your time? Even a J can get lazy if they have nothing to look forward to, especially if they're IJ's. Tell me, were you naturally organized at all, or do you mostly follow rules of thumb that you've been taught to observe by others? Are you generally flexible, or rigid in your ideas and actions?

I'm pretty sure that I'm a J naturally, because I have a lot of trouble just going with the flow, at all. I'm very rigid and inflexible, even though my parent never pressured me to be organized at all. If anything, I imposed more order on myself and her than vice-versa. She tests as a P, and sometimes annoys me with random behavior, shuffling around, and other antics.
 

findthejake

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Sep 30, 2007
Messages
258
MBTI Type
ENFP
This happened to me as well. The first time I took the test I was ENFJ but only slightly J, like 2% if I remember right. The description was somewhat like me but I was in a transformation stage of my life where I was shedding who I had pretended to be for so long, I was removing my biggest mask. Not too long after that I retook the test and was of course ENFP to a strong degree. There is no denying this is who I am.
 

Maverick

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Apr 29, 2007
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ENTJ
Many people believe that personality is fixed, or at worst that it stays the true "unconscious" you. The reality is that it's very difficult to tell. There is no sound evidence that indicates that you cannot change personality. I think that we're biased into thinking personality is fixed because of our judeo-christian heritage.

Data suggests most people are rather average on most dimensions and few have strong preferences.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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Messages
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MBTI Type
BELF
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594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Many people believe that personality is fixed, or at worst that it stays the true "unconscious" you. The reality is that it's very difficult to tell. There is no sound evidence that indicates that you cannot change personality. I think that we're biased into thinking personality is fixed because of our judeo-christian heritage.

Is it?

Talk to ptgatsby about FFM and the factors that correspond to MBTI (especially E/I). I have not really seen E/I change that much at all from early childhood. We simply see coping factors change, and/or ability to deal with situations that are not the optimum one. (i.e., introverts learn how to gauge their energy reserves or develop socializing skills to offset their anxiety, extroverts learn to pace themselves and also give space to introverts to participate, etc.)

Data suggests most people are rather average on most dimensions and few have strong preferences.

What data? (I don't necessarily disagree, I am just curious to know if you had any specific sources in mind, or if this is the culmination of your personal experiences throughout life, or what exactly.)
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
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Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
MBTI Type
ISTP
Is it?

Talk to ptgatsby about FFM and the factors that correspond to MBTI (especially E/I). I have not really seen E/I change that much at all from early childhood. We simply see coping factors change, and/or ability to deal with situations that are not the optimum one. (i.e., introverts learn how to gauge their energy reserves or develop socializing skills to offset their anxiety, extroverts learn to pace themselves and also give space to introverts to participate, etc.)

o_O

Most personality can't be changed, in theory, because it is genetic and biological (ie: biology, not chemical).

It is the channeling of our nature that makes all the difference in the world. (E/I being an example of how one should attempt to be more "E", regardless that it is largely biological).


What data? (I don't necessarily disagree, I am just curious to know if you had any specific sources in mind, or if this is the culmination of your personal experiences throughout life, or what exactly.)

I will point out that one has to be careful making assumptions based on data that is meant to fit a certain curve. This goes for MBTI (forced bimodal) or FFM (forced normal).

Regardless, I don't think it is difficult to say that it's true that most people fall within a normal range of traits... it can't be seen from MBTI because of the distribution... but also because of the functional theory behind it (does not see traits expressed independently).
 

Tayshaun

New member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
172
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
No, that would mean changing the function dynamics entirely.

A change in F/T, S/N or I/E is less extreme than a change in J/P for Jungians.

Example:

INTP -> INTJ
Ti becomes Ni
Ne becomes Te
Si becomes Fi
Fe becomes Se

INTP -> INFP
Ti becomes Fi
Ne stays Ne
Si stays Si
Fe becomes Te

INTP -> ENTP
Ti becomes Ne
Ne becomes Ti
Si becomes Fe
Fe becomes Si

Is it obvious?
 
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