[NF] theory about Fe & Fi

[lorkan]

Oh. Maybe I only see the threads about Fe and Fi then.

What you (S)ee is what you get, I guess x)

 

[alcea rosea]

alcea rocea: Why do you want to resist it if you feel pulled to it?

I don't know. I've been wondering that too lately. I think I'm scared of exposing my self. I mean the core of me. I'm very open most of the time but still very reserved about the "core". It puzzles me too....

Heh, same here. Fe is like a magnet to me (isn't it to everyone?) - and yes, I want and try to resist the magnetism because I want to be independent and not bound to other people. (Another reason is that some (unbalanced?) Fe dominants are too intense and smothering/suffocating to me. I start to feel claustrophobic.)

It might be really what you are writing. I think they steal my freedom......
*hmmmmmm*
No, in my case, I think I'm scared of something, but I cannot put my finger on it.

 

[lorkan]

alcea_rosea: Does it feel like they are wiring you and use you like a puppet (at least capable to)? Does it feel bad when Fe express opinions or is it because you are so totally aware of their moods that it creates earthquakes in you?

 

[Leysing]

Leysing: In order to understand you may need our attention or else we act like you would be some sort of dog that don't obey and just generally be on you all the time. You wouldn't like that right?
As soon as we turn our back (metaphorically speaking), we would treat you like worthless again. In other words, Fe users need to be observant alot more around Fi.

Hm, interesting. I have to keep this in mind.

 

[alcea rosea]

alcea_rosea: Does it feel like they are wiring you and use you like a puppet (at least capable to)? Does it feel bad when Fe express opinions or is it because you are so totally aware of their moods that it creates earthquakes in you?

Again, very good point! It might be one of those reasons.

I feel the Fe attraction even more with ENFJ's than ESFJ's because Ni is ever so interesting for me. So Fe-Ni combination is something I find hard to resist but I do resist it because it kind of feels like selling your soul to the devil .

It's the feeling not trusting them even if I know at least one really reliable and totally 100% lovely ENFJ (and I know there are many more out there). So, it's more something in me than the qualities of the ENFJ's. I think the encounters with ENFJ's feel almost too good to be true because they understand you so well and I don't want anybody to see me so completely. It's like standing naked in front of them. And I don't want to be so exposed. It makes me feel so insecure and vulnerable. And I hate feeling like that, I guess.

 

[lorkan]

I've been reading some INTP comments and reflecting alot. Is it ever really possible for an Fe user to give something selflessly? I mean realy? Even a logically driven INTP would have wanted something back if he used his Fe. The only time a person would apear to do/give something selflessly is because interests parallels, wich still would leave a person egoistic. A person might enjoy seeing a kid happy when he gives something to the kid, and this might appear selfless. I think we should just accept that humans are biological creatures that have their own agenda. The goal would be to seek out people that get something out seeing us happy, although we know he/she would be egoistic - it still parallels with our own desires.
Don't missunderstand me. I'm not loosing faith. I just didn't want to be in denial (yes I would, truth is horrible)....

I know what you think .... damn that lorkan is slow, haven't until now figured out that Fi is pure while Fe ain't.

 

[Chris_in_Orbit]

I've been reading some INTP comments and reflecting alot. Is it ever really possible for an Fe user to give something selflessly? I mean realy? Even a logically driven INTP would have wanted something back if he used his Fe. The only time a person would apear to do/give something selflessly is because interests parallels, wich still would leave a person egoistic. A person might enjoy seeing a kid happy when he gives something to the kid, and this might appear selfless. I think we should just accept that humans are biological creatures that have their own agenda. The goal would be to seek out people that get something out seeing us happy, although we know he/she would be egoistic - it still parallels with our own desires.
Don't missunderstand me. I'm not loosing faith. I just didn't want to be in denial (yes I would, truth is horrible)....

I know what you think .... damn that lorkan is slow, haven't until now figured out that Fi is pure while Fe ain't.

Totally agree, I don't believe in altruism for a second. I'm REALLY hoping that doesn't make me sound like a pessimist though.

 

[CzeCze]

The part that interested me is that Fi is directed introvertedly -- according to MBTI theory, like every other introverted function, it starts with itself, moves outward, then back to itself again as the end result.

Fe does the opposite.

Interesting, can you explain more?

And I get the mechanism better thinking in terms of Fe -- you see something happen, you immediately check into your internal values system to see how you feel about it, then you get back out there and get involved in the situation you're seeing.

Fi -- the core principle is the object, you extend it to the real world to try to implement it, then retreat back to the safety of inner world where principles remain guarded.

Yes?

No?

 

[Jack Flak]

Totally agree, I don't believe in altruism for a second. I'm REALLY hoping that doesn't make me sound like a pessimist though.

INTPs can be as selfless as anyone else, but it can still be argued everything's done for a selfish reason. It doesn't matter though. That kind of philosophy's a dead-end: No useful net conclusion.

 

[Jack Flak]

Interesting, can you explain more?

And I get the mechanism better thinking in terms of Fe -- you see something happen, you immediately check into your internal values system to see how you feel about it, then you get back out there and get involved in the situation you're seeing.

Fi -- the core principle is the object, you extend it to the real world to try to implement it, then retreat back to the safety of inner world where principles remain guarded.

Yes?

No?

Feeling in the Introverted attitude, straight from the horse's mouth:

3. Feeling​

Introverted feeling is determined principally by the subjective factor. This means that the feeling-judgment differs quite as essentially from extraverted feeling as does the introversion of thinking from extraversion. It is unquestionably difficult to give an intellectual presentation of the introverted feeling process, or even an approximate [p. 490] description of it, although the peculiar character of this kind of feeling simply stands out as soon as one becomes aware of it at all. Since it is primarily controlled by subjective preconditions, and is only secondarily concerned with the object, this feeling appears much less upon the surface and is, as a rule, misunderstood. It is a feeling which apparently depreciates the object; hence it usually becomes noticeable in its negative manifestations. The existence of a positive feeling can be inferred only indirectly, as it were. Its aim is not so much to accommodate to the objective fact as to stand above it, since its whole unconscious effort is to give reality to the underlying images. It is, as it were, continually seeking an image which has no existence in reality, but of which it has had a sort of previous vision. From objects that can never fit in with its aim it seems to glide unheedingly away. It strives after an inner intensity, to which at the most, objects contribute only an accessory stimulus. The depths of this feeling can only be divined -- they can never be clearly comprehended. It makes men silent and difficult of access; with the sensitiveness of the mimosa, it shrinks from the brutality of the object, in order to expand into the depths of the subject. It puts forward negative feeling-judgments or assumes an air of profound indifference, as a measure of self-defence.
Primordial images are, of course, just as much idea as feeling. Thus, basic ideas such as God, freedom, immortality are just as much feeling-values as they are significant as ideas. Everything, therefore, that has been said of the introverted thinking refers equally to introverted feeling, only here everything is felt while there it was thought. But the fact that thoughts can generally be expressed more intelligibly than feelings demands a more than ordinary descriptive or artistic capacity before the real wealth of this feeling can be even approximately [p. 491] presented or communicated to the outer world. Whereas subjective thinking, on account of its unrelatedness, finds great difficulty in arousing an adequate understanding, the same, though in perhaps even higher degree, holds good for subjective feeling. In order to communicate with others it has to find an external form which is not only fitted to absorb the subjective feeling in a satisfying expression, but which must also convey it to one's fellowman in such a way that a parallel process takes place in him. Thanks to the relatively great internal (as well as external) similarity of the human being, this effect can actually be achieved, although a form acceptable to feeling is extremely difficult to find, so long as it is still mainly orientated by the fathomless store of primordial images. But, when it becomes falsified by an egocentric attitude, it at once grows unsympathetic, since then its major concern is still with the ego. Such a case never fails to create an impression of sentimental self-love, with its constant effort to arouse interest and even morbid self-admiration just as the subjectified consciousness of the introverted thinker, striving after an abstraction of abstractions, only attains a supreme intensity of a thought-process in itself quite empty, so the intensification of egocentric feeling only leads to a contentless passionateness, which merely feels itself. This is the mystical, ecstatic stage, which prepares the way over into the extraverted functions repressed by feeling, just as introverted thinking is pitted against a primitive feeling, to which objects attach themselves with magical force, so introverted feeling is counterbalanced by a primitive thinking, whose concretism and slavery to facts passes all bounds. Continually emancipating itself from the relation to the object, this feeling creates a freedom, both of action and of conscience, that is only answerable to the subject, and that may even renounce all traditional values. But so much the more [p. 492] does unconscious thinking fall a victim to the power of objective facts.

 

[Chris_in_Orbit]

I wonder if it would be too much to ask to have that description watered down a bit.

 

[alcea rosea]

^ I agree.
lol

 

[Cypocalypse]

The way I understand the two is...

Fi - intrapersonal. Awareness of one's emotions
Fe - empathic. Awareness of others'

 

[BlueScreen]

The way I understand the two is...

Fi - intrapersonal. Awareness of one's emotions
Fe - empathic. Awareness of others'

Actually with Fi our empathy is way better than our recognition of our own pain. We are more likely to care about pain in others than ourselves. And we actually don't fight many battles purely for ourselves. We are often quite self neglectful, not in the sense that we are stewing and wanting to kill people like some sites say, but because we expect we should rise above it, we don't see the reason for argument. People and situations evolve, if something needs to be said it is said, sometimes it just stirs up a room though and is destructive without reason, so we walk past it because in the scheme of things it doesn't matter. We'd prefer to just discuss it, understand it, help the other person understand that the conflict is unnecessary. I think some other types just don't realise peoples views evolve and they adapt. One minute you can strongly believe something, the next minute you can hear something that makes you realise you were wrong, so then you choose to believe something new (unless you lead a western country of course).

 

[alcea rosea]

^good point!

 

[the state i am in]

Fe i see in the infj troubadours, poets, songwriters, prophets. it connects with everything, synthesizes the feelings, absorbs everything it touches, but can't help but express it back in it's new form at all times. it seeks feeling from outside of itself, yet there is absolutely a lingering core or trace of the past left behind, guiding the course, pushing in new directions, determining what is to be sought out (mystic, author, counselor, etc).

Fi for infp is like a snowball that keeps growing. there is an inward core that sucks in everything, concentrating itself and transforming everything into an extension of its own belief, faith, feeling, dream, etc. it translates life into feeling, into love and hope and despair. it is either a sun or a black hole and at times it feels like nothing can stop its rise or fall. (infp healer, dreamer, etc)

enfp Fi seems so diffusive and scattered and world love. it is constantly expressing its direction and desires so it becomes more fluid in its articulation/actualization than infp Fi. but it IS inwardly driven. it generally has an easier time cultivating itself and finding supportive environments bc it is energized by experience and interaction and other people. so it is less depressive and stuck in place and doesn't have teh same cost of admission (concentration) as infp. it moves in so many more directions, it is easier to please bc its idealism/feeling-tone is directed outwardly in very real and social ways (champion, visionary, etc).

enfj Fe i have no idea. i don't know any. the biggest chameleons of all? method acting?

 

[BlackCat]

After reading this I am still unclear about Fe vs Fi. Isn't there a website where there is a side by side comparison? I've seen this with Ni vs Ne but not Fe vs Fi.

 

[BlueScreen]

Introverted Feeling
Extraverted Feeling

ENFP
INFJ

 

[maerzhase]

The way I understand the two is...

Fi - intrapersonal. Awareness of one's emotions
Fe - empathic. Awareness of others'

This is how I perceive it as well. Fe basically means you are aware of somebody else’s feeling and expectation and it should prompt you to act in line with the expectation of that person.

Say if you are in a group of people you tend to notice the role you are playing in that group like being a teacher. You will act like a teacher. Because this is what your pupils are expecting from you. If you are a mother you will act like one if other people expect it. For this you will have a good grasp of society assumption about that role. Fe just like Te is an application-function. You basically apply your knowledge of conventions (Fe) or laws of nature (Te) to your environment.

In contrast Fi and Ti are discovery functions. They help you to figure out your own perception of the world, which does not need to be in line with the perception of the group of people you are in. In the case of Fi you will be very much aware of your own feelings regarding what happens to you and with Ti you will be in touch with how things are connected.

For this reason people using Fe will appear very conventional (ESFJ /ENFJ) in how they are responding to other people. On the other hand there is a tendency for people who use Fi dominantly to defeat general expectations about their presumed role. That is why they are sometimes passive aggressive if they think you want them to behave in a certain way that does not feel right to them.

 

[Ratus]

For this reason people using Fe will appear very conventional (ESFJ /ENFJ) in how they are responding to other people. On the other hand there is a tendency for people who use Fi dominantly to defeat general expectations about their presumed role. That is why they are sometimes passive aggressive if they think you want them to behave in a certain way that does not feel right to them.

Indeed, I think it's a good point. This is, in my sense, because Fe is directed outwardly, thus Fe want more appear empathic to the eyes of the others whereas Fi want more to feel inside themself that they are empathic, and this is, probably, one reason for the Fe "show" when caring others versus the quietness of Fi when they do the same thing. (I guess this can be also available for Ts, Te would be more attracted to appear logical to eyes of the observators, whereas Ti would be more likely to be attracted to feel logical for themselves)