[NF] NFs, what is your value judgment on this

[Amargith]

You all do realize that, if you truly are tired and/or offended by someone's interactions with you over time, the best way to respond is to ... ignore him completely?'

There can be no stronger statement than silence and a thread sitting empty for days, proving beyond doubt the general irrelevance of the OP. Treating it as insignificant rather than as something worth your time and energy and contempt.

When you respond with strong judgment... well, that's exactly what was desired in the first place, and you're rather proving his point for him.

...Then again... we could all watch Dinosaurs!

I do agree with you Jennifer, but I remain hopeful that this was maybe a break in his armour against F's. Despite a clear disdain for our 'kind', he seems to actually try and understand it now, which is why I replied. I'd consider that a break-through, in his case. That being said, I am not sure he will not relapse.. But I have hope

 

[Kestrel]

Yes, today is your day NFs. In this thread it really is a matter of Feel!

No need for factual accuracy or logical consistency, I am merely asking you to make a value judgment in this case.

Do you feel like ripping my head off for showing this to you?

Wow Bluewing, you are so on target with your analysis of NFs! I can't remember the last time I used this thing you call "logic". I also can't seem to make any decision without my emotions getting the best of me. "What pair of pants should I wear today? Oh God, I think I need to sit down for this."

I'm also very disconnected from reality, always fantasizing and feeling, never thinking. I wonder how I ever made it through college. Even writing this post is wearing me out with all the thinking, so I'm going to stop now. Whew.

 

[jeeze]

I feel that my butt itches.

 

[Anja]

I just ran across this. As many of you, I sensed a game was afoot and I don't take kindly to folks who want to try to mess with my feelings. I value feelings as much as I do balancing them with logic. Cuz that's where the path of health is.

Sad but true, some people are handicapped by only using one or the other. Blue Wing is the flip side of the coin he mocks!

So I'm making a guess here that the video was a display of personal pain. And I do have thoughts about the co-opting of people's lives for entertainment.

What's with this culture? Are our own lives so colorless that we must feed like vampires on others to feel whole?

Not profoundly disturbed by that, but certainly disturbed.

That's a good question for you to ask yourself, Blue Wing. Half of you awaits development.

 

[Kestrel]

I value feelings as much as I do balancing them with logic. Cuz that's where the path of health is.

I think it's interesting you brought this up. Keirsey mentions in his books about how thinkers are particularly vulnerable to this. School is almost entirely in favor of developing thinking functions and there is very little to offer for feeling development. I think it's pretty apparent that some thinkers with no means or desire of developing their feeling functions would end up lacking some kind of F/T balance.

 

[bronte]

Antonio Puerta suffered a heart attack as a result of a rare heart condition. As a young man that's sad (no more for him than for any young man) I feel for his family but no BW I am not 'disturbed' in any way.

I am 'disturbed' by current stories in the papers in the Uk of a boy of two who was tortured and killed by his mother and her boyfriend and another story of a father who repeatedly raped his two daughters producing 9 children over 20 years before he was stopped. These stories are 'disturbing' and people often feel disturbed or angry or have some sort of reaction to such abuse. It has nothing at all to do with typology and everthing to do with a shared humanity.

I have those feelings but it does not mean that I run around crying and gnashing my teeth!

It does mean we need to think and about what is wrong with society and perhaps what we could do individually and collectively to prevent these things from happening - 'Doing' somthing may be motivated by feeling but the doing is achieved through feeling and thinking together

Jennifer - I agree - it feels wrong to reply to him at all - I suppose its naive to think that he will ever listen - but I'm evr the optimist!

 

[Anja]

Had some thought about your comments, Kestral. Beautiful bird, by the way!

I had a resistance to the idea of "teaching feelings" in school and wasn't sure why. Haven't pondered it long, but perhaps, aside from reading a few self-help books, going into therapy or joining a group of people who are working on their feelings not much can be taught but awareness of them and what to do with them.

It's such a subjective issue. I think a good teacher addresses the feelings side of her pupils. Affirming expression of them in positive ways so she engages the whole child in the learning process.

And with a system that is set up for competition there would be no scientific method of grading which would take into consideration all the variables.

The flaw wouldn't be in addressing feelings, I think, as much as trying to squeeze them into the scientific realm which doesn't work as so many of our rigid thinkers notice.

They are trying to evaluate an intangible by the rules of a material world!

I know that there have been efforts to introduce social issues such as etiquette, feelings management into education. Not sure conventional school is the place for it.

 

[Anja]

I am 'disturbed' by current stories in the papers in the Uk of a boy of two who was tortured and killed by his mother and her boyfriend and another story of a father who repeatedly raped his two daughters producing 9 children over 20 years before he was stopped. These stories are 'disturbing' and people often feel disturbed or angry or have some sort of reaction to such abuse. It has nothing at all to do with typology and everthing to do with a shared humanity.

Thanks for that. I think this thread has value yet.

It raises the question of the emotional health of those people, doesn't it? Did anyone ever teach them that anger is an acceptable emotion but needs to be occasionally expressed to prevent it from exploding?

Did anyone ever teach them that anger is usually the cork on the bottle of other more painful feelings? That expression of hurt aids in dealing with rage which which can generate hateful acts?

It's fair to say that the people who did these things had worked to stuff their pain deep enough inside that they failed to develop their bond with humanity.

In a sense they create pain in others as a way of dealing with their own denied pain.

 

[bronte]

I'm sure this is happening in the states too but in the UK the concept of emotional literacy is a growing issue - it is taught in schools as an important means of enabling children to care for their mental health and understand their relationships with others as citizens

This is an example of an emotional literacy scheme

Aspects of emotional literacy

The various aspects of emotional literacy as described by Katherine Weare in her book 'Developing the Emotionally Literate School' are outlined here.

Self-understanding:

* having an accurate and positive view of ourselves
* having a sense of optimism about the world and ourselves
* having a coherent and continuous life story.

Understanding and managing emotions:

* experiencing the whole range of emotions
* understanding the causes of our emotions
* expressing our emotions appropriately
* managing our responses to our emotions effectively: for example, managing our anger, controlling our impulses
* knowing how to feel good more often and for longer
* using information about emotions to plan and solve problems
* resilience: processing, and bouncing back from, difficult experiences.

Understanding social situations and making relationships:

* forming attachments to other people
* experiencing empathy for others
* communicating with others and responding effectively
* managing our relationships effectively
* being autonomous, independent and self-reliant.

This scheme was taught by mental health nurses/children's nurses in partnership with teachers and in some cases parents

it is not graded but the scheme is evaluated through questionaires with the kids

 

[Anja]

Wow, Guy. You sure popped that in here fast!

I have noticed that our European relatives whom are our age have considerably better emotional health than most Americans of the same age. Physical as well.

I wonder how much that has to do with a progressive population combined with having a brutal war fought in your yard.

 

[Anja]

Just saw your avatar.

 

[Jack Flak]

As much as I despise the Wing, you have to admit that y'all NFs are a predictable bunch, discussing the implications of this garbage at length.

 

[Kestrel]

It's such a subjective issue. I think a good teacher addresses the feelings side of her pupils. Affirming expression of them in positive ways so she engages the whole child in the learning process.

And with a system that is set up for competition there would be no scientific method of grading which would take into consideration all the variables.

The flaw wouldn't be in addressing feelings, I think, as much as trying to squeeze them into the scientific realm which doesn't work as so many of our rigid thinkers notice.

They are trying to evaluate an intangible by the rules of a material world!

Good points. I agree that the entire system itself is structurally shaped in favor of thinking over feeling.

I haven't thought about it that much, but I think a system that included feeling would have a more cooperative aspect to it versus a competitive one.

I also think there would be more group discussions where characters and themes in stories are discussed in detail. Questions could be asked like "And why do you think this character is making this decision? What is motivating them? How do you think they felt after they saw this happen? How would you react in their shoes?" etc. I think it would at least stimulate the feeling side of people and possibly give them the opportunity to see things from a different angle.

And I hope rigid thinkers would accept that not everything can be understood through hard logic.

 

[Anja]

As much as I despise the Wing, you have to admit that y'all NFs are a predictable bunch, discussing the implications of this garbage at length.

Scoot, Dude. We're havin' fuuuuuuun!

 

[Atomic Fiend]

I need someone to dare me to replace his first video with the Season Finale of Dinosaurs! .

Yes.

I dare you.

 

[runvardh]

I laughed.

 

[sade]

No.
I have nor had any emotional connection to him, so no.
It did sadden me a bit that he died, and what it meant to everyone else, but still no. Rather, I felt irritated at the fact that I didn't see anyone trying to help him, but then again it wasn't a real news feed so.. *shrug*

 

[Darjur]

Good points. I agree that the entire system itself is structurally shaped in favor of thinking over feeling.

And I hope rigid thinkers would accept that not everything can be understood through hard logic.

Yes as well as the entire system is based on female values and being an S. There is a minimal amount of actual T in schools nor the actual requirement of understanding, simple memorization is enough. Of course if you want to be ranked amongst the best there, you have to have a well developed sense of logic, but by no means is it a requirement, the absolute majority of the school system is based towards creating people that can fit into certain systems, not people that can freely think around them and choosing what's best at certain scenarios. Thus I cannot agree to the statement that school is T based, heck, it's not even advantageous to T's in a lot of cases, I know countless people who do far better, than pure T's who understand the subject at hand several times better then the aforementioned F's, simply because of the fact that the T's rebel when they are asked to do something in a fashion that is wasteful and unneudingly complex. Also, literature, etiquette, psychology, philosophy, choreography, music, arts... ect already cater to your F's that we T's have to face up to.

Personally, I don't think that it's even worth to try and understand something to which actual logic doesn't apply.

 

[Leysing]

That wasn't horrible or disturbing. That was sad. I felt sorry for him but that was far from "profound" or "overwhelming". I can't see what would make this "disturbing".

(No, I don't have the urge to tear your head off. )

 

[Night]

I must confess, BW, that this exercise gives the unsavory appearance of an individual looking to confirm suspicion, rather than to falsify precept.

The consequences of which, as you know, do grievous injury to the credibility of your protected position.

Measuring conclusion on the basis of subjective interpretation is less about hard science than it is about developing a broken statistical anomaly. Facts can be doctored as a means to confirm/deny premise without ever actually involving it.

I offer this to you as redundant suggestion.



As an aside, Decision Theory/optimization of utility might be an interesting read for you.