[MBTI General] the article of "why smart people often suffer in this world"

[niki]

guys, i need your help.
i kinda forgot,
but i'm sure i remember that here in this board, somebody once posted a really great link, article about "why smart people often suffer in this world"
if i'm not mistaken,..i guess it's marmalade who posted this article, but somehow i couldn't find it, even when i googled about it.

so please, if anybody knows, i'd love to know the link to that article again.
because me and my cousin (INTJ) lately just feel like this, espcially when talking about religions...and keep asking the question "why can't we both just like any other 'normal' people, just stop questioning things, and just 'believe' ?" hehe
and i figured this article would perhaps explain the 'pain' we often experience. hopefully.

thanks

 

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Well I don't have a link for you, but people who aren't as smart as you still suffer. The thing with religion is that its a way of life for some people, you don't have to believe in one thing as an individual... I don't even see why you would think that would make you happy.

 

[niki]

@Chris: i agree , any person would still suffer , definitely.
but i do think that the line "ignorance is bliss" really does apply well, based on my observations & own experiences.
those people who don't think or analyze too much, or keep questioning things "why is this? why is that?" can actually be much more content & "in-tune" with what happens in this world & life, rather or compared with those who think/analyze/question things constantly.
in other words, it seems like although they also must have their own pains & suffer too, yet they can seemingly more 'understand' or accept it , ie: "this is how the world operates" , rather than keep dwelling on it and saying "why can't the world understand me?" etc. hence, the 'more' sufferings for the latter type of people.

 

[am_i_evil666]

guys, i need your help.

so please, if anybody knows, i'd love to know the link to that article again.
because me and my cousin (INTJ) lately just feel like this, espcially when talking about religions...and keep asking the question "why can't we both just like any other 'normal' people, just stop questioning things, and just 'believe' ?" hehe
and i figured this article would perhaps explain the 'pain' we often experience. hopefully.

thanks

i think that most people with a brain will, at one point or antoher question the religion thing. i am sure that there are as many people who question the existence of god as there are those who "just believe"..... so,i'd say that the normality, from the point of view of religion, is relative.


Chris_in_Orbit, if i could blindly believe that there is a god and that there is a heaven and hell i would be happy, because i would know that there is something after death. of course, that just my point of view.

 

[kiddykat]

I would actually beg to differ that ignorance is bliss, since there are consequences for our actions. I actually wish people could raise awareness of more relevant issues sometimes. That's one thing I kinda find flawed about living in the 'now,' because instant gratification, when it's based on the shallows, isn't always beneficial for humanity when we think of long-term repercussions.

I think being balanced is good, and being mindful about our actions is even better. I don't have the link to why smart people suffer in this world, but often, if one is a black sheep/chooses to live authentically, I tend to find that they face lots of challenges, because they are different. Choosing to live that kind of life, even though at times it may be a bit painful, I'd rather take that route than to be a blind sheep. That's true happiness. At least we get to be true ourselves and who we are at heart. Nothing's more satisfying than the feeling of self-love and total self-acceptance.. That's just me though. Nothing personal.

 

[BlueScreen]

I would actually beg to differ that ignorance is bliss, since there are consequences for our actions. I actually wish people could raise awareness of more relevant issues sometimes. That's one thing I kinda find flawed about living in the 'now,' because instant gratification, when it's based on the shallows, isn't always beneficial for humanity when we think of long-term repercussions.

I think being balanced is good, and being mindful about our actions is even better. I don't have the link to why smart people suffer in this world, but often, if one is a black sheep/chooses to live authentically, I tend to find that they face lots of challenges, because they are different. Choosing to live that kind of life, even though at times it may be a bit painful, I'd rather take that route than to be a blind sheep. That's true happiness. At least we get to be true ourselves and who we are at heart. Nothing's more satisfying than the feeling of self-love and total self-acceptance.. That's just me though. Nothing personal.

I doubt an ENFP could ever say ignorance is bliss, it goes against almost everything we are and do. But that doesn't mean our beliefs are wrong for everyone else. The fact is that knowing yourself and being comfortable with it is a far greater happiness than ignorance will ever give you (regardless of your type).

On the topic, religion is there to be questioned. Be happy you do it. God gave you a brain to think and an Earth to explore. Thank him by using it . Religion is actually a dangerous place to be without a mind to guide you. You can have faith in things but completely blind faith is more foolishness. Half the problems in churches are nothing to do with the religion, more the fact that people stand up and say whatever they think will sound good, and other people for some reason listen and try to make sense of it. Some even believe if you make a good analogy with false logic in it, it somehow becomes beautiful and true, rather than a quite misleading and ugly distortion of the truth.

My best tip if you want to be religious is be a purest. Don't get told what to think by others, learn and understand it for yourself from your view. That isn't saying be a fundamentalist, because that is also ignoring use of your brain. Just argue it, analyse it, ask why certain things make no sense and others do. Why some things are important and not others. All that stuff. There are very few respected people in the church who are not self learned, critical and analytical. And very few who don't have other agendas or not have a clue what they are talking about, who would tell you not to be. It's not like God will get hurt and die if you question the wrong thing, or try to understand his messages more. Seek and you will find, etc. I think it is overrating their influence also when people think they will do damage to or offend the omnipotent by not toeing the line. Blind faith is sort of an insult to God in the sense that he sent a message and all people care about doing is memorising and believing in it. Damn, if I created something and people looked at it and said "I believe, praise the Noigmn", I'd be disappointed that they didn't care enough to try to understand me and meet me half way. And what could you chat to them about when they come to heaven? How much they loved and praised you on earth? How many times they read the book each day and their favourite catch phrase. Yay!.. I'd be over it in a few minutes, then what to do for eternity? hmmm... Though I'm not God . Anyway, my point is think, and be happy you do it! It is healthy, and quite religiously okay.

 

[Chris_in_Orbit]

@Chris: i agree , any person would still suffer , definitely.
but i do think that the line "ignorance is bliss" really does apply well, based on my observations & own experiences.
those people who don't think or analyze too much, or keep questioning things "why is this? why is that?" can actually be much more content & "in-tune" with what happens in this world & life, rather or compared with those who think/analyze/question things constantly.
in other words, it seems like although they also must have their own pains & suffer too, yet they can seemingly more 'understand' or accept it , ie: "this is how the world operates" , rather than keep dwelling on it and saying "why can't the world understand me?" etc. hence, the 'more' sufferings for the latter type of people.

You may just be looking at it from the grass is greener perspective. I always question everything in my life and although sometimes its a pain in the ass to never find any concrete answers....its always freaking sweet to come up with your own.

 

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Chris_in_Orbit, if i could blindly believe that there is a god and that there is a heaven and hell i would be happy, because i would know that there is something after death. of course, that just my point of view.

I get your point but how many people blindly believe in a religion as you say? Usually every person has some reason even if its as dumb as wanting to avoid going to hell. I'm still not seeing the connection between blind faith and happiness.

 

[Darjur]

I both agree and disagree with your point of view.

While it is true, that concept of life, based entirely on "god did it, so it had to be so", would be excruciatingly simple. If that is what you consider happiness, then yes. The specimen would indeed be happy.

On the other hand of the spectrum, I could use examples of people like me. It's just plain interesting and enjoyable to question. If I couldn't do that, I'd probably die from boredom. The challenges from a social stand point are... well challenges. They are there to be triumphed. What good is there of an existence if one cannot fight in it?


On a side note, if you are too stupid to not understand, that your life is a living hell of boredom, then can you actually become unhappy about it?

 

[Gauche]

i think its good to doubt, because it is sign that thing inside your skull is working, and you dont accept everything that is told you blindly. And questioning religion is good as well, because it doesnt mean you are heretic or something like that, or your faith is low; again, its better than to believe something blindly, and only after questioning it, finding that its true, and then comes true faith.

Unfortunately the major portion of mankind arent either capable or willing to see the things beyond what was told them is true, and that people are often happy, but actually they dont even realize that they dont see something down there, what actually can not be seen (by eyes), but definitely is there

 

[nightning]

If you're that desperate... do a search for all of marmalade's posts. She hasn't made that many posts...

 

[iwakar]

Wrassle up an INTx to hunt that article down for you. I didn't turn up anything in my semi-legitimate effort.

soddy

 

[Eruca]

Wrassle up an INTx to hunt that article down for you. I didn't turn up anything in my semi-legitimate effort.

soddy

Don't ask an INTP to do it, we are too lazy.

On topic: Ignorance IS bliss. I dont know any fact that is more true or less realised than that. It is the reason we have the "tortured genius" stereotype. The smarter you get, the worse off you are.

I wish I was an ESFJ.

 

[niffer]

I don't consider it to be suffering. I let it energize me so that I can pursue my goals, gain better understanding of things, and make an impact on things around me. I don't see it as a reason to whine, I see it as a responsibility. Maybe I can do something that nobody else can do for the world.

 

[BlueScreen]

I don't consider it to be suffering. I let it energize me so that I can pursue my goals, gain better understanding of things, and make an impact on things around me. I don't see it as a reason to whine, I see it as a responsibility. Maybe I can do something that nobody else can do for the world.

Yeh, we have that strange problem that suffering usually also equals learning/progress. So good is good, and bad is good. No wonder we keep thinking everyone is good.

 

[niffer]

Yeh, we have that strange problem that suffering usually also equals learning/progress. So good is good, and bad is good. No wonder we keep thinking everyone is good.

Yes! Lol, I don't have much concept of right/wrong and good/bad because of this, and though I have good judgment nonetheless, other people sometimes think the way I regard some sitauations/types of people as quite odd, and find my thinking pattern towards judgment on these sorts of things very different from their own lol.

 

[Synarch]

It is best for man to be middle-wise,
Not over cunning and clever:
The learned man whose lore is deep
Is seldom happy at heart.

 

[Skyward]

Ignorance is bliss

But it also leads to self destruction if not herded the right way.

That is why we need a trustworthy leader to help guide the sheep. That's also the analogy Jesus used with the followers of christianity.

Without a good moral foundation, the ignorant are likely to degenerate into narcissism and hedonism.

Only the highly learned need some direction, or they will just hoard knowledge like a dragon hoards gold. If the highly learned had a focus, anything could get done.

If the less learned had the morals or strong belief that is a base, they would keep society stable. This would allow the highly learned to enlighten the world.

Hidden agendas only corrupt a system, if everything was open and shared we would have a utopia.






.... That sounds like Socialism/Anarchism

 

[BlueScreen]

Hidden agendas only corrupt a system, if everything was open and shared we would have a utopia.

That used to be my moto almost. Though now I am more of the global understanding belief. You can already see from on the board that openness doesn't really clear misinterpretation. Though if done for long enough it might. And for some reason I don't like utopia. My goal is to move toward perfection but on another level I have the realisation that beauty lies in imperfections and I hate destroying that.

 

[marm]

Well, I'm marmalade. I don't even remember what article that was. Sounds interesting. I'll see if it somehow magically pops back into my memory.