[ENFJ] The ENFJ Facade/Fakeness

[Tallulah]

That's weird--the xNFJs in my (real) life are always compulsively confessing things to me. Seriously. Compulsively.

 

[The Third Rider]

howdy!

yeah, i feel quite odd talking 'bout myself, but it's the only way i'll get answers. I don't know if this counts for anything, but when I'm with people I like and stuff. the energy's pretty contagious - i do like people.

I also feel like when I'm with different people I may give off a different impression depending on who i'm with. it's not that i'm pretending as such, it just happens - why is this?

I do it too, I tend to act quite differently around different people or groups of people. Its in my nature really, I do it because I want to connect with them. It doesn't really mean that is not part of my personality, it just that I only use that part of my personality in that particular instance. May be I came across as fake, IDK but this is who I am, a camilion, that is my personality.

 

[Jim]

About not talking about themselves... that's quite a bit NFJ thing generally I think that makes me find it hard to connect or trust them. in fact the main thing behind why I just could never work with my parish priest was because after a while I realized that I'd told him everything about myself including things I never told another living soul, and yet I didn't so much as know his favourite colour or what music he liked. He just never, ever volunteered information and even if I asked him for it, he'd give a minimal answer and then evade, turn it back onto me. It gave me a feeling after a while like he wanted to feel like he was in control, directing what was said... but also that he didn't trust me, so I figured in the end why should I trust him any more? In fact, why did I bother in the first place if he never intended to give anything back?

edit - I once confronted him about it and he said when I was telling him my stuff he didn't want to "hi-jack" it by going on about himself, which totally baffled me. I tried to explain that I wanted him to reciprocate, that my opening up was a stream of gestures of trust towards him which, when they never got returned, made me feel resentful. It also made me feel uneasy around him - think about it, you're pouring yourself out to someone and they just sit there and don't say what they think or anything. What else are you gonna think but that they think you're an idiot but are just too polite to say? And how long are you going to go on sharing your inner self with someone who seems not to appreciate it?

ah, i think i may do that too,but i don't know why...feels like it's getting in the way? perhaps - but to have known the person i was talking to, they must know stuff about me by now. Maybe I come across aloof? < I've been told that too *is extra confused*

 

[substitute]

ah, i think i may do that too,but i don't know why...feels like it's getting in the way? perhaps - but to have known the person i was talking to, they must know stuff about me by now. Maybe I come across aloof? < I've been told that too *is extra confused*

Yeah that's how I felt about the priest eventually: self-righteous, aloof and cold, which was funny cos in the early days of meeting each other he said I was that way and went on at me about opening up and trusting people and reaching out and stuff, yet it took me a while to realize he never did this himself.

It's really hard, I think this is what's led me to feeling like I just have an "allergy" to NFJ's generally... it's this thing where their behaviour towards me seems to suggest these negative things, yet I'm conscious that I don't really know anything about them, so I try to avoid judging them based on mere speculative interpretation of their behaviour and closed-ness, and instead try to find out what the REAL reason is... but you can imagine this isn't really possible where there seems no way to get the person to open up and actually talk about themselves, they'll only express their own thoughts and opinions when you get them actually angry.

That's what it took in the end, I had to really lay into him with a really mean rant that I knew was unjustified and unreasonable but I was just hoping to push his buttons enough to just find out WTF was behind it all... but whilst I would've seen this as the beginning of the solution, his angry/upset reaction, he saw it as curtains for any possibility of friendship between us.

It felt to me like he was guaging me for worthiness to be trusted with his thoughts and stuff, which is fair enough in the beginning but after 2 years you start thinking, geez who does he think he is? what does it take for him to think someone's worthy if working alongside, always supporting him, trusting him with MY stuff implicitly... if none of that's good enough, what am I supposed to do? And then when I felt like he'd pushed me to the point of virtually begging him to just give me SOMETHING to go on, as I was by that point feeling so insecure and like he must think I'm some total idiot and laugh about me with his wife after I've gone home etc, rather than read that as it was, my last ditch desperate attempt to just CONNECT with him, he just took it as a big attack and final proof that I would never be "worthy" of his friendship.

It's gone that way for me with almost every NFJ I've known and it totally cuts me up every time, so that's why I now use the "allergy" thing and avoid them if I can. It's really sad though cos I do like them... I just have better things to do that stand there for years holding out my hand waiting for it to be taken.

 

[Tallulah]

That's what it took in the end, I had to really lay into him with a really mean rant that I knew was unjustified and unreasonable but I was just hoping to push his buttons enough to just find out WTF was behind it all... but whilst I would've seen this as the beginning of the solution, his angry/upset reaction, he saw it as curtains for any possibility of friendship between us.

That's certainly how I would have reacted, and I'm not an NFJ. Had you considered that maybe a) he doesn't open up to others because he has issues of his own that he doesn't know how to deal with, or b) he's not even aware he's being "closed off?" If someone laid into me, I would NEVER take it as some sort of compliment that they wanted to know me better. I'd see it as manipulative and mean.

In a more general way, I don't understand why people get berated for not being more open--isn't it someone's choice whether they share things about themselves? And isn't it true that some people just "click" together better than others?

 

[Jim]

Yeah that's how I felt about the priest eventually: self-righteous, aloof and cold, which was funny cos in the early days of meeting each other he said I was that way and went on at me about opening up and trusting people and reaching out and stuff, yet it took me a while to realize he never did this himself.

It's really hard, I think this is what's led me to feeling like I just have an "allergy" to NFJ's generally... it's this thing where their behaviour towards me seems to suggest these negative things, yet I'm conscious that I don't really know anything about them, so I try to avoid judging them based on mere speculative interpretation of their behaviour and closed-ness, and instead try to find out what the REAL reason is... but you can imagine this isn't really possible where there seems no way to get the person to open up and actually talk about themselves, they'll only express their own thoughts and opinions when you get them actually angry.

That's what it took in the end, I had to really lay into him with a really mean rant that I knew was unjustified and unreasonable but I was just hoping to push his buttons enough to just find out WTF was behind it all... but whilst I would've seen this as the beginning of the solution, his angry/upset reaction, he saw it as curtains for any possibility of friendship between us.

It felt to me like he was guaging me for worthiness to be trusted with his thoughts and stuff, which is fair enough in the beginning but after 2 years you start thinking, geez who does he think he is? what does it take for him to think someone's worthy if working alongside, always supporting him, trusting him with MY stuff implicitly... if none of that's good enough, what am I supposed to do? And then when I felt like he'd pushed me to the point of virtually begging him to just give me SOMETHING to go on, as I was by that point feeling so insecure and like he must think I'm some total idiot and laugh about me with his wife after I've gone home etc, rather than read that as it was, my last ditch desperate attempt to just CONNECT with him, he just took it as a big attack and final proof that I would never be "worthy" of his friendship.

It's gone that way for me with almost every NFJ I've known and it totally cuts me up every time, so that's why I now use the "allergy" thing and avoid them if I can. It's really sad though cos I do like them... I just have better things to do that stand there for years holding out my hand waiting for it to be taken.

It's funny you say that because I've been told I come across that way (semi-aloof/extrovert/enfj-ish) but it's not like I'm two-faced or anything of that sort (rather the opposite, don't get involved with all that endless bitching and backbiting) but at the same time I probably do give off that judgemental vibe (which is really not true!) because I've been told on occassion that 'I wouldn't approve' of situation x/conversation y or 'I'd be offended' when I've never expressed any disregard for the topic at hand. It feels like I'm being pre-judged at times.

 

[substitute]

That's certainly how I would have reacted, and I'm not an NFJ. Had you considered that maybe a) he doesn't open up to others because he has issues of his own that he doesn't know how to deal with, or b) he's not even aware he's being "closed off?" If someone laid into me, I would NEVER take it as some sort of compliment that they wanted to know me better. I'd see it as manipulative and mean.

In a more general way, I don't understand why people get berated for not being more open--isn't it someone's choice whether they share things about themselves? And isn't it true that some people just "click" together better than others?

If you reread my posts on this subject you'll see that the really mean rant was only AFTER two years of assuming your a and b, and trying to figure out how he wanted me to respond to him...

Yes it's true that we don't click with everyone but there are such things as mixed signals... if you don't see someone as material for opening up to or friendship, why invite them to your house for dinner all the time? Why sit with them in church or hang out with them when you've a large choice of other people? Why call someone and ask them out for lunch all the time? And if you don't want them to confide things in you and don't want them to think you're making a friendship with them, why ask them personal questions? That was the problem - they wanted to know everything about me and hang out with me and stuff, yet revealed nothing back. The mixed signals was what screwed with my head and caused an irrational and unwise response in the end.

Jim this is it... I do get a judgemental, sorta almost snotty vibe off 'em, but my intuition tells me it's deceptive and not what it seems, so I try to get to the bottom of it so I won't fall for the same mistake others do about them when I hear them bitching about so-and-so thinks they're better than us, etc, so I can sorta stick up for them in those situations and promote better understanding and stuff... but I feel when i try to do that - to get to know someone rather than judge them on misleading surface appearances, which is supposedly standard ethical practice - I find with NFJ's I slam against a brick wall.

 

[Domino]

hi i'm new,

a lurker, but now a member!

At work today, a colleague said to me 'I feel like you're hiding who you really are from me'

Do enfjs get this a lot, and why?

Welcome, Jim!

I do get told with some frequency that I'm hard to "get next to". I don't do this on purpose at all. I just have my natural instinct to like/help/socialize with people (which is genuine) pulling against my need to protect myself (which is also kneejerk).

If I'm not putting myself out there, it's because being an Fe primary is already difficult and I have to *somehow* control what affects me. It seems strange to be innately driven towards what can profoundly harm you, and yet that's how I feel.

I try to make myself more "available" but it just doesn't happen. Getting me in "available" mode is one of those highly specialized moments when I feel absolutely safe.

 

[substitute]

Welcome, Jim!

I do get told with some frequency that I'm hard to "get next to". I don't do this on purpose at all. I just have my natural instinct to like/help/socialize with people (which is genuine) pulling against my need to protect myself (which is also kneejerk).

If I'm not putting myself out there, it's because being an Fe primary is already difficult and I have to *somehow* control what affects me. It seems strange to be innately driven towards what can profoundly harm you, and yet that's how I feel.

I try to make myself more "available" but it just doesn't happen. Getting me in "available" mode is one of those highly specialized moments when I feel absolutely safe.

Wow, that explains a lot!

Really wow though, it really does!! Cos I'm also driven strongly to socialize and put myself out there, but yet with me there's always that NT detachment that sorta keeps me 'safe' in the sense you mean there. So I guess that's why it would hugely confuse me to have someone advance, then pull back, advance, pull back - the mixed signals i referred to earlier. The idea of needing to 'keep safe' just isn't something that would occur to me...

You see? If he'd just said that, I'd have totally understood! lol

 

[Giggly]

The Fe folks apparently always get accused of being fake. Here's another thread about it from a few days ago.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-idyllic/10356-fe-no-cute-title-i-just-don-t-get.html

That's weird--the xNFJs in my (real) life are always compulsively confessing things to me. Seriously. Compulsively.

This means that they trust you and that you are probably very special to them.

 

[Tallulah]

Yes it's true that we don't click with everyone but there are such things as mixed signals... if you don't see someone as material for opening up to or friendship, why invite them to your house for dinner all the time? Why sit with them in church or hang out with them when you've a large choice of other people? Why call someone and ask them out for lunch all the time? And if you don't want them to confide things in you and don't want them to think you're making a friendship with them, why ask them personal questions? That was the problem - they wanted to know everything about me and hang out with me and stuff, yet revealed nothing back. The mixed signals was what screwed with my head and caused an irrational and unwise response in the end.

Yeah, I understand inviting people over to be sociable, just because I grew up with that concept, but I don't understand asking people personal questions and offering nothing in return. I'd have definitely stopped answering all the personal questions pretty quickly.

Welcome, Jim!

I do get told with some frequency that I'm hard to "get next to". I don't do this on purpose at all. I just have my natural instinct to like/help/socialize with people (which is genuine) pulling against my need to protect myself (which is also kneejerk).

If I'm not putting myself out there, it's because being an Fe primary is already difficult and I have to *somehow* control what affects me. It seems strange to be innately driven towards what can profoundly harm you, and yet that's how I feel.

I try to make myself more "available" but it just doesn't happen. Getting me in "available" mode is one of those highly specialized moments when I feel absolutely safe.

This resonates a lot with me. Also, I think I like a lot of people from a distance more than I like a lot of people with a desire to be close to them.

 

[Giggly]

Welcome, Jim!

I do get told with some frequency that I'm hard to "get next to". I don't do this on purpose at all. I just have my natural instinct to like/help/socialize with people (which is genuine) pulling against my need to protect myself (which is also kneejerk).

If I'm not putting myself out there, it's because being an Fe primary is already difficult and I have to *somehow* control what affects me. It seems strange to be innately driven towards what can profoundly harm you, and yet that's how I feel.

I try to make myself more "available" but it just doesn't happen. Getting me in "available" mode is one of those highly specialized moments when I feel absolutely safe.

Nicely said. I experience this too. It feels like an emotional rollercoaster. lol

 

[Domino]

Wow, that explains a lot!

Really wow though, it really does!! Cos I'm also driven strongly to socialize and put myself out there, but yet with me there's always that NT detachment that sorta keeps me 'safe' in the sense you mean there. So I guess that's why it would hugely confuse me to have someone advance, then pull back, advance, pull back - the mixed signals i referred to earlier. The idea of needing to 'keep safe' just isn't something that would occur to me...

Oh yeah, I can absolutely see why it would be confusing for those on the outside. *I* don't even fully understand why I behave the way I do. Having things pull powerfully at my emotions 24/7 is exhausting. Some times I can take it, other times, I simply can't and immediately submarine.

I have some examples.

1. My ENFP twin.: She's this huge red target in my life. I have never felt so compelled to protect someone. For the last few days she's been wearing a heart monitor to track what ever it is that's going wonky. She had to leave it on for 48 hours. It was a nuisance but we figured out how to get around most of it.

Two problems: seeing her with more medical equipment attached to her (made my Agent Orange act up like you wouldn't believe, but I stifled it), and the fact that she got horribly ill the day she had it put on (which had me AND my mother up almost til sunrise trying to get her out of pain). I can't tolerate watching her suffer. I mean, I tolerate both her distress and mine and really just bear down for the duration, but after it's over? I'm usually wound really tight and irritable. Why? Because I was deeply distressed and anxious. I take on her distress without knowing it. There's no way I can't enter into someone's pain or horror or fear or glee etc. Objectivity doesn't seem to exist.

She's learned to live with me, knowing what I'm like, but I can still exasperate her. She lets a lot of stuff go because she's way more chill than I am and she knows how much I love her and that I'm irascible by nature, and that I'd pull myself apart for her. Still, sometimes, it's "You moody animal! You make me crazy!!!"


2. I had mentioned (yes this will sound ridiculous, but what ever!) the NFJ-ENTP soap opera couple before and I'll do it again today because I think it fits. Today, he was telling her that she's not dead (just because her loved ones are), that she's feeling sorry for herself/being a victim, and that she's stopped trying. This lead to an angry outburst/meltdown on her part (I could see a lot of myself in that - that's what fear turns into... anger, frustration), and he grabbed her arms, got into her face, and told her that people still loved her and that it was okay to be afraid and angry if she just kept TRYING.

It was said and done in so archetypal an ENTP way. I have no clue what it is about you people, but it's always something, even if it stings, that makes me feel like I'm in control of myself again. My twin has this affect on me too, (Ne primary?) but there's something about the NT way of it that makes a difference.

Plus, he kisses with his eyes open. It's just bulletproof. Somehow.

You see? If he'd just said that, I'd have totally understood! lol

I know. My sister says this too. She has a fit with Dad sometimes, and it's my job to go talk to him when "NFJness" is required, like I'm the interpretor.

I think the one thing that INFJs get saddled with even worse than us Es (though I'm a borderline E/I) is the inherent fear of exposure. My INFJ dad and I seem to get each other on most any level, and yet he pulls back at moments when I'm throwing my shoulder against the gate. Know what I mean? I think I alarm him. The two of having a conversation together, I'm told, is quite the sight. Both of us coming up and then submerging, coming up, submerging, all in the same conversation.

 

[Domino]

ENTPs don't bother if they don't care.

I'd have definitely stopped answering all the personal questions pretty quickly.

I push for authenticity and yet when I'm the one being asked, I actually start shaking sometimes. I get very wary and start throwing up shields, even with people I like.

This resonates a lot with me. Also, I think I like a lot of people from a distance more than I like a lot of people with a desire to be close to them.

Well put, Tulls!!

Nicely said. I experience this too. It feels like an emotional rollercoaster. lol

Fe is the dog that bites the hand that feeds it. You have to come at it like a stunt man - different explosions require different landings, and if you use Fe, there will be PLENTY of explosions and it's YOUR job to figure out how to land without hurting yourself.

No on/off switch either!! The devil/angel flip-flop continues.

 

[jtanSis1]

If you read up on thew personality type, you would see that ENFJ's have a high set of standards that they hold everyone to, including themselves. They keep the dark parts of themselves that would be viewed as inappropriate inside leading to a very gentle and fragile person that they defend fiercely. As an INFP, I like people as they are, but ENFJ's are a real treat to me for the strength and gentleness dynamic.

 

[BlueScreen]

If you read up on thew personality type, you would see that ENFJ's have a high set of standards that they hold everyone to, including themselves. They keep the dark parts of themselves that would be viewed as inappropriate inside leading to a very gentle and fragile person that they defend fiercely. As an INFP, I like people as they are, but ENFJ's are a real treat to me for the strength and gentleness dynamic.

Agree ENFJs are sort of cool and sexy . They are so supporting, even when you know it is a fascade, and it has an NF type sincerity that makes you believe it. Or at least want to. Too much of it wears me down as an ENFP though, because you want to get onto something more deep. But still, I love them.

 

[booyalab]

At work today, a colleague said to me 'I feel like you're hiding who you really are from me'

I've gotten that impression from ENFJs I've known...and I'm slow to assume a facade in people. There's one at my work who talks to all of her coworkers like they're a customer. Sort of a female Lumbergh.

 

[Jim]

I've gotten that impression from ENFJs I've known...and I'm slow to assume a facade in people. There's one at my work who talks to all of her coworkers like they're a customer. Sort of a female Lumbergh.

Really? I'd argue I'm less robotic, but y'know, some people can be awkward. One thing I don't like is when I'm talking in a group of people, and there's just one person staring at me, like, what is the deal with that?

 

[Jack Flak]

I've gotten that impression from ENFJs I've known...and I'm slow to assume a facade in people. There's one at my work who talks to all of her coworkers like they're a customer. Sort of a female Lumbergh.

Booya...What's happening?

 

[VanillaCat]

I've known two ENFJs who are known as "Fake."

I got to see what's really inside
They're quite interesting and amazing.