[Fi] Fi: You only get it if you got it

[redacted]

I don't "get" Fi, I guess, but I understand how it works.

I think Fi users don't really get Fe either, even though they might understand the definition.

I do know how to deal with Fi users, though. They have a harder time dealing with me than I do with them.

I do find it kinda funny that some Fi users seem to think Fi is more "real" or "authentic" than Fe. I guess most people tend to think the things they're good at are the "best" things.

And CC, there is a lot of hidden tone and assumptions in your posts, and that's what most people are responding to, not your actual words. This is the problem with Ns communicating, especially over the internet

 

[SillySapienne]

I feel frustrated because I have difficulty explaining the reasoning behind this Fi connection, other than saying, I dunno, so-in-so just *gets it*.

So, I implore you, somebody, (anybody), try to linearly and logically explain Fi, for I simply cannot, asking me to do so is like asking me to justify my, I don't know, my entire existence, I guess.

Hmmm would linear logic not be a strength of dominant T users, specifically Ti?

Not to mention earlier on you and heart asked, begged jack to explain Fi in Ti fashion. I will dig it up later but it's there for all to see.

As a matter of fact you even stated your inability to explain it in those terms and asked others who were more skilled to do it for you. The whole thread could basically be read as "me specifically as an Fi user cannot explain it in terms that any one else but an Fi user can understand, so will anyone with a skill or proficiency in linear logic please come to my rescue and try and explain it in that fashion so you know others can actually understand it"

Just as I thought, I *never explicitly* asked Ti users to define/explain Fi.

And I am unsure if you saw my introduction but I believe I stated "Hello fellow Fi users and also, I am not sure if you noticed but I posted this in the NF Idyllic forum, not the NT one.

Perhaps I should have been more clear in my OP but I was actually hoping for Fi users to help linearly and logically explain Fi but I was willing, (and still am), to listen to what non-Fi users had/have to say about it.

I especially enjoyed/appreciated Orangey's post about tapping into, experiencing Fi, and I think that she, along with ajblaise, and BW, (even though I disagree with a lot of what he says) all made valiant attempts to explain Fi.

Somewhere, somehow, this became a personal attacking bashing thread, and that is sad, really, considering that this topic isn't even politically charged, or taboo.

 

[Geoff]

 

[Skyward]

I'm not devaluing Fi in any way shape or form at ALL. What I was merely trying to say was since most people have encountered Ti logic it is pretty easily understood and learned. Most people however are not familiar with Fi logic so I thought it was necessary for their to be sort a bridge to help me and others understand it( a lot of other posters did a great job of that, by the way) But my original intent in bringing this up was to show that CC did in fact ask specifically for Ti logic and when some people tried to explain it in that manner she got frustrated as did others. The funny thing is most of the "insightful" posts that were referenced actually were very logically plausible unlike her own attempts.

I wasn't targeting you directly, only ignoring her request for Ti reasoning and giving my own reason with iLogic.

I do see that, so it could show that Fi and Ti cant really explain each other 'right'? Ti sees Fi as some tool and Fi sees Ti as a cold mean rock?

 

[Nocapszy]

Just as I thought, I *never explicitly* asked Ti users to define/explain Fi.

You asked it on a forum predominantly populated by Ti types. You had to know you were goading them.

Besides, if you're asking for logic, you will not find a type more aptly equipped.

 

[heart]

I don't "get" Fi, I guess, but I understand how it works.

I think Fi users don't really get Fe either, even though they might understand the definition.

I do know how to deal with Fi users, though. They have a harder time dealing with me than I do with them.

I do find it kinda funny that some Fi users seem to think Fi is more "real" or "authentic" than Fe. I guess most people tend to think the things they're good at are the "best" things.

I didn't say Fi was the "best" for everyone, I said it is easier to trust for me because it feels more real to me. When I do Fe, it comes off sounding fake and hollow and that was my point.

 

[heart]

You asked it on a forum predominantly populated by Ti types. You had to know you were goading them.

It's not logical to allow one's self to be goaded.

 

[SillySapienne]

But my original intent in bringing this up was to show that CC did in fact ask specifically for Ti logic and when some people tried to explain it in that manner she got frustrated as did others. The funny thing is most of the "insightful" posts that were referenced actually were very logically plausible unlike her own attempts.

Darling, I think I may know why you are feeling sore with me, but I am not about to blow up your spot, but really, continue attacking me if it makes your feel good about yourself.

 

[Didums]

This is exactly the kind of inductive idiocy I get so pissed about. You and CC both make this mistake.

Just because Feeling isn't rational, doesn't mean an F can't be rational. It means most of the time they're not, but still some of the time they can, and often are

I said that you should be embarassed and you responded "NO U". "You're an F anyway" like somehow that would affect what I had said? You use it like an ad hominem or something, which demonstrates that you are interpreting a pseudoscience too literally.

Wrong.
You don't care what I have to say.
And y'know something chotch, you're almost alone.

Awesome appeal to popularity. All I was saying was that this mindset: "I don't have any interest in proving my points / sharing my knowledge to underlings such as yourself" is worthless because if you cannot prove your points THEY DO NOT MATTER. Everything in mathematics, science, philosophy, is about proving your points to be true! If you can prove your points to be true, knowledge grows, and benefits humanity.

Ex: "2+2 = 5" - bob
"why do you think that is bob" - jim
"it just is jim, it just is, I dont have to prove anything to you! To me, it is self evident that it is true!" - bob

Again you make the mistake of thinking I care whether you approve of me.

I don't think you do, I don't know why you asserted that I do. I was just noting that undue convictions about yourself were influencing your thought process.

Well why the hell did you even write that then?

To let you know that I didn't care, because you might not have noticed that I didn't care if I just didn't respond altogether by skipping that quote. I had to let you know that I thought what you had said was worthless because I am a F and it makes me feel good when I annoy you.

 

[Simplexity]

Just as I thought, I *never explicitly* asked Ti users to define/explain Fi.

And I am unsure if you saw my introduction but I believe I stated "Hello fellow Fi users and also, I am not sure if you noticed but I posted this in the NF Idyllic forum, not the NT one.

Perhaps I should have been more clear in my OP but I was actually hoping for Fi users to help linearly and logically explain Fi but I was willing, (and still am), to listen to what non-Fi users had/have to say about it.

I especially enjoyed/appreciated Orangey's post about tapping into, experiencing Fi, and I think that she, along with ajblaise, and BW, (even though I disagree with a lot of what he says) all made valiant attempts to explain Fi.

Somewhere, somehow, this became a personal attacking bashing thread, and that is sad, really, considering that this topic isn't even politically charged, or taboo.

It's not necessarily a personal bash but its kinda funny that you frequently explicitly and implicitly bash Ti and consistently value Fi very highly and get upset when others devalue your function(see multiple hate threads). My issue is basically with your original attempts at explaining Fi v Ti in this thread, I thought it unnecessarily praised Fi while casting Ti in a negative light. you didn't substantiate a lot of your own personal arguments either.


And lemme get this straight you ask for a linear logical explanation and don't expect a Ti type response, correct me if I'm wrong but is Ti type reasoning exclusive to dominant Ti types? Regardless of who uses it the type of reasoning is still the same whether it is an Fi user or Ti user. I would also assume that would be an open invite for Ti users to try their hand at explaining it since they are naturally more proficient at it( would you argue that?) not to mention that there were plenty of Ti users who posted in the thread not just a couple.

 

[redacted]

I didn't say Fi was the "best" for everyone, I said it is easier to trust for me because it feels more real to me. When I do Fe, it comes off sounding fake and hollow and that was my point.

You are one of the 2-3 reasons I said some instead of all

 

[Lady_X]

I don't "get" Fi, I guess, but I understand how it works.

I think Fi users don't really get Fe either, even though they might understand the definition.

I do know how to deal with Fi users, though. They have a harder time dealing with me than I do with them.

I do find it kinda funny that some Fi users seem to think Fi is more "real" or "authentic" than Fe. I guess most people tend to think the things they're good at are the "best" things.

And CC, there is a lot of hidden tone and assumptions in your posts, and that's what most people are responding to, not your actual words. This is the problem with Ns communicating, especially over the internet :)

this bit was interesting...
what exactly is the point of this though...is someone supposed to wrong in this situation...because i think the opposite could be said as well...we most likely do not get ti either...right? i mean...we receive and process information differently...

 

[Simplexity]

Darling, I think I may know why you are feeling sore with me, but I am not about to blow up your spot, but really, continue attacking me if it makes your feel good about yourself.

Once again you have a habit of wrapping up your "arguments" in emotionally charged personal responses. I really am not on any level near where you at emotionally so I don't know why your projecting these emotions on me, seriously. See thats the thing the further the argument goes on the more you retreat to "reasoning" by making the case that someone has it out for you. If it makes you sleep better by all means continue doing it.

I can do hugs too


oo wow I just passed my first test on CC arguing methods. yay

 

[heart]

You are one of the 2-3 reasons I said some instead of all

I was just trying to be clearer about what I meant. I don't always explain myself as well as I should.

 

[SillySapienne]

It's not necessarily a personal bash but its kinda funny that you frequently explicitly and implicitly bash Ti and consistently value Fi very highly and get upset when others devalue your function(see multiple hate threads). My issue is basically with your original attempts at explaining Fi v Ti in this thread, I thought it unnecessarily praised Fi while casting Ti in a negative light. you didn't substantiate a lot of your own personal arguments either.

Do i bash Ti? No.

Do I get frustrated with Ti doms? Sometimes, yes.

I have difficulty reading through a lot of Ti, honestly, lol, because I lack patience and instead much prefer the concise route that Te affords me.

Do I value Fi? Hell yes I do, and I don't think I need to apologize for that fact

My issue is basically with your original attempts at explaining Fi v Ti in this thread, I thought it unnecessarily praised Fi while casting Ti in a negative light.

LOL, W-T-F ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?!?

How this became a Ti vs. Fi thread is beyond me!!!

And lemme get this straight you ask for a linear logical explanation and don't expect a Ti type response, correct me if I'm wrong but is Ti type reasoning exclusive to dominant Ti types? Regardless of who uses it the type of reasoning is still the same whether it is an Fi user or Ti user. I would also assume that would be an open invite for Ti users to try their hand at explaining it since they are naturally more proficient at it( would you argue that?) not to mention that there were plenty of Ti users who posted in the thread not just a couple

Are you just *not* reading my posts?!?!?

*shakes head*

I shall refresh your memory.

Perhaps I should have been more clear in my OP but I was actually hoping for Fi users to help linearly and logically explain Fi but I was willing, (and still am), to listen to what non-Fi users had/have to say about it.

I especially enjoyed/appreciated Orangey's post about tapping into, experiencing Fi, and I think that she, along with ajblaise, and BW, (even though I disagree with a lot of what he says) all made valiant attempts to explain Fi.

 

[redacted]

this bit was interesting...
what exactly is the point of this though...is someone supposed to wrong in this situation...because i think the opposite could be said as well...we most likely do not get the ti either...right? i mean...we receive and process information differently...

When I say Fi users don't really understand Fe users, I mean Fi/Te users don't really understand Fe/Ti users. (And vice versa)

Not that we literally don't understand the words the other people are saying...but that we seem to start from different sets of assumptions, and we sometimes think we're arguing with each other when we're really just missing -- we're in different interpretation frames.

No one is "right". I'm just saying people tend to weigh their assumptions higher than other people's assumptions, which leads to a big miscommunication.

I think that different judging functions are the biggest difference in MBTI types, at least in terms of communication. I communicate best with TPs and FJs, even ESTPs and ESFJs. It's not that I can't communicate with TJs and FPs, it's just that I find we misunderstand each other more.

 

[Simplexity]

Do i bash Ti? No.

Do I get frustrated with Ti doms? Sometimes, yes.

I have difficulty reading through a lot of Ti, honestly, lol, because I lack patience and instead much prefer the concise route that Te affords me.

Do I value Fi? Hell yes I do, and I don't think I need to apologize for that fact



LOL, W-T-F ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?!?

How this became a Ti vs. Fi thread is beyond me!!!



Are you just *not* reading my posts?!?!?

*shakes head*

I shall refresh your memory.

My point was that you implied that you wanted logical linear explanations for Fi and most of the insightful posts in this thread did that. I actually really appreciated those specific posts you referenced and agreed with them because they provided me that avenue of understanding. You stated that you did not want Ti like reasoning when in fact your OP explicitly stated you did. Well when you are that loose with your statements and words you will get disagreement from Ti users and you did invite them by stating that in your original post.


My specific issue was the fact that you made your own statements that could not be at all understood by Ti reasoning and furthermore they gave me the sense that Fi was somehow a more holier route to seeing the truth and Ti was a muddled and cloudy route to "seeing" it.

 

[SillySapienne]

You stated that you did not want Ti like reasoning when in fact your OP explicitly stated you did

When, where!?!??!

 

[Didums]

I think we can all agree on this:

Fi doesn't exist.

You cannot go to a part of the brain and say: "There! Thats some Fi! He/She's got a whole lot of it! Must be a dom Fi."

Neither does F nor T exist.

These things are imaginary, constructs of our minds (or rather the construct of the minds that created the system, which we now abide to) to try to explain and bring order to personality, which is a more complex, less definable, and less predictable thing that mbti would like.

/end thread?

 

[redacted]

I think we can all agree on this:

Fi doesn't exist.

You cannot go to a part of the brain and say: "There! Thats some Fi! He/She's got a whole lot of it! Must be a dom Fi."

Neither does F nor T exist.

These things are imaginary, constructs of our minds (or rather the construct of the minds that created the system, which we now abide to) to try to explain and bring order to personality, which is a more complex, less definable, and less predictable thing that mbti would like.

/end thread?

/end forum?