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[MBTI General] INFJ-INFP relationship

Udog

Seriously Delirious
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Can you elaborate on this?

udog, i'd like to hear more of what you were getting at as well. you may be on to something.

This sums it up pretty well:

Drag an INFJ female off to do something different and fun. Take her out hiking, fishing, skydiving (if you can manage that one). Have a fun time without any expectations. Make it a surprise outing if you wish. But that's only after the INFJ is attracted to you.

I've known 3 INFJ women very well, and all 3 went for STPs. What I noticed being consistent is that a) they knew the STP for awhile before hand, so trust and safety were first established and b) once that bond is created, they took the INFJ out for 'adventure'.

What qualified as adventure varied, whether it was night clubs and dancing, hiking and nature, or even just going out and about and doing fairly tame things like exploring the city and getting things done.
 

Thessaly

I drink your milkshake.
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xNFP
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3w4
I recently broke up with an INFJ. I don't know if I would date one again. It was a nice, caring, and emotionally rich relationship, but it was a bit.....*yawn*. I need a challenge or a greater dynamic. I don't think I experienced any growth or learned much in our relationship and that is something I really crave when committing myself to someone. If I can't learn from someone or have my life excited by another I'd rather be single.
 

heart

heart on fire
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In my experience the INFP-INFJ relationship can be an emotional rollercoaster: joyful highs, despairing lows, has certainly never been dull. There's a constant edge there that's either exciting and inspiring or irritating and infuritating.
 

Thessaly

I drink your milkshake.
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Definitely not dull emotion wise, but that's one area of my life I don't need any more arousal in.
 

Silent Stars

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I dated an INFJ years ago - the only guy I've ever been in love with. I loved that we didn't have to talk in order to be on the same page, like scary telepathy. But, he was moody - actually, every NFJ I know is moody - and his feelings, though internalized, really seemed to take him over, like he just couldn't handle them sometimes. It was driving my Fi up the wall. I have to say though, the chemistry was insane.
That's how it is with my INFP (and yes, the chemistry is DEFINITELY amazing:D), but minus the moodiness on my part, cause I'm very level, even in stressful circumstances/touchy situations and such. I honestly think most any other INFJ guy who has had all the stuff built up in their life over time that I have, who is also highly sensitive, would have an awfully hard time having a relationship with my INFP--at least at my age, anyways--because if I wasn't nearly as stable I am, well....there are all kinds of things that could be causing difficulties, or even kill the relationship entirely, hurting both people a lot in the process, but I can see through all that quite easily to the root of everything like any emotional outbursts she has or misunderstandings that could be taken personally, among other things.

I'm able to take care of that stuff in a way that is very firm and uncompromising as to what needs to be done, but at the same time never hurts her, and does not push her away, but rather, just gives her a little shove in the right direction, so to speak, and helping her back up if she stumbles. She's said that I'm always totally right when I do that (We could probably end up talking for hours when I get into it. It makes for very good conversational material that helps bring us closer, which I always love.:)), but that it's just really really hard for her; I know that she'll get better with those things in time, though it could very well take quite a while, as she also has various emotional disorders, depression, and even PTSD (most likely from her father abusing her, though she no longer has to worry about that because he was finally dealt with just this past week), and her ways of coping with those things are very much ingrained, and I'm working with her on changing them to better methods that don't just hurt herself further.

Most of that is largely intuitive for me, though, as I seem to just naturally understand her a lot better than anyone else she knows. I am very good at understanding people in general, but with the people I can really connect with (which are few and far between), it's on an entirely different level, like to the point of frequent non-verbal understanding of exactly everything the other person is feeling, and pretty often I even end up personally feeling myself what they're feeling without having any actual knowledge of it....which can get a bit overwhelming at times (though never out of control), but I'm very glad for it because understanding her is very important to me and that does help a lot.

I think the biggest problem for an INFJ/INFP relationship would be one or both people taking these issues (This could, of course, be an issue of varying degrees in many different relationships, but it can easily be compounded and greatly magnified in this specific type of relationship.) and trying to solve them on merely the surface level, instead of actually taking the time to see exactly WHY those reactions/perceptions/etc. happen by going backward through their thought processes each step to find the base cause and take care of that before anything else. I know a lot of times this can be initially VERY difficult and painful to do because those things are very deeply seated in their psyche, and if one or both people can't handle the pain of it, it could very well end up making the relationship impossible to be healthy, or even exist at all, but it's very much worth the effort, because taking care of all the superficial stuff is merely a temporary fix.

One other thing I should mention is that I think an INFP/INFJ relationship would work out a lot better (this is just based on the majority of both of them being Enneagram type 4 [which seems to be more common] or 9) if one is 4 and the other is 9 (Healthy 9s are a very stabilizing factor in any sort of relationship.). If they were both the same type--especially if they're both 4s--the difficulties and insecurities that each person has would reflect off each other getting worse each time, while also creating a dynamic that is unchallenging and stagnant, but if it consisted of one of each, it would be highly complimentary. Here's what The Enneagram Institute says about that, which I think is perfectly descriptive of my relationship...except for the part about reading papers. lol

What Each Type Brings to the Relationship
This can be, paradoxically, both a very comfortable—and yet exciting—relationship pair. Enneagram Fours and Nines are both withdrawn and private, sensitive to the feelings and needs of the other, and empathetic to the suffering of others. Both can be tender-hearted and highly sympathetic to the suffering that they find in the world and in each other. Both want to find a deep connection with the other, and yet, both also want a certain degree of autonomy and insist on a very real degree of privacy. Both Fours and Nines can be highly creative, and as a pair they enthusiastically support the other's creativity and give the other a good deal of space in which to develop their talents. Both are idealistic and want to connect deeply with someone, feeling that they are on a search for their soul mate, the one person in the world with whom they can completely connect and be themselves.

Both Fours and Nines also bring a sensuality and love of comfort that is noteworthy; this may express itself in their lifestyle, traveling habits, and in their sexual and other intimate activities. This is a couple that likes to stay in bed all Sunday morning, reading the papers and talking. Each brings passion and an appreciation of the other coupled with a desire to be comfortable and build a life with the other. Fours can make Nines become more intense and expressive about how they feel, while Nines can allow Fours to feel understood and accepted for who they are. Fours are good at naming feelings and pinpointing emotional states; Nines are good at creating an atmosphere of nonjudgmental acceptance, Nines may even enjoy the emotional storms and dramas that Fours occasionally get into, feeling that it adds spice to their life together. A lot of the pleasure and passion of this couple is nonverbal in the depth of the understanding that each has for the other.

This part, however, thankfully isn't a problem for us at all.:)

Potential Trouble Spots or Issues

The biggest area of conflict between Fours and Nines is that each tends to react differently as stress increases: Fours become more emotionally volatile and demanding, while Nines become more disengaged and impossible to get through to. Fours can feel too unstable and dramatic, unpredictable and moody for Nines, while Nines can feel too unresponsive and emotionally inert, unsatisfying and uncommunicative for Fours. Nines can become angered by the Four's sense of entitlement and demands for attention and exemption. Fours can become angered by Nines' irresponsibility and apparent inability to learn from their mistakes and experiences. If conflicts and tensions increase between them, Nines can shut down more and more so that communication stops, and they give Fours the subtle message that they don't want to hear their reactions or deal with their feelings. Fours can feel that talking with Nines is like playing tennis with yourself—there's no one to hit the ball back—and there is too little relating in the relationship. Contempt for what Fours see is being boring and ineffectual can end the relationship.

Both types look for partners who seem to embody some qualities that they feel they do not have themselves: Nines seek strong, high energy partners, whereas Fours seek partners who possess some ego-ideal that they feel they are missing themselves. In lower functioning Fours and Nines, neither energizes the other and both get stuck in a morass of inhibited anger, resentment, and irritation with each other. Fours tend to give up on the Nines (as being hopelessly inert and dull), whereas Nines tend to give up on Fours (as being too demanding and emotionally volatile).
 

the state i am in

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This sums it up pretty well:

I've known 3 INFJ women very well, and all 3 went for STPs. What I noticed being consistent is that a) they knew the STP for awhile before hand, so trust and safety were first established and b) once that bond is created, they took the INFJ out for 'adventure'.

What qualified as adventure varied, whether it was night clubs and dancing, hiking and nature, or even just going out and about and doing fairly tame things like exploring the city and getting things done.

i wonder if infj women have an easier time handling T men. i'm in a relationship with an infj but if she wasn't the feelingist intj in the world i'd lose it. gender roles perhaps, and i'm still way more self-conscious, emotionally reactive, idealistic, and intense than she is. which is weird and at times runs contrary to my expectations.

i do agree that we infjs love having someone inspire us, incite us, get us going. to me this would be much more likely to be an enfp or entp type than a true estp adventure. there's a reason i always secretly felt a strange distaste for hemingway. quit calling her "rabbit" you condescending asshole. infj women are stronger in some ways to stand up to this, but at the same time the protective rugged individualist estp adventurer bullshit story might be more apt for them. to me i always feel a huge disconnect in terms of motivations, reasons for doing something, deepest beliefs, etc.

enfps and entps just make me want to create something, articulate (and gesticulate), express, be spontaneous, chase after something, dance, etc. it brings out what is just latent and unsure uncertain tentative held back. i need to get my other functions activated and past their security checkpoints before my Se is free to take the reigns. it's like kundalini yoga or an orgasm, it has to build and progress, it can't just be an escape from my own private reality. i want to create a space for that reality in the world and then invite others into it.

i do think Se is huge and gigantic tho in terms of infj expression, extraversion, and connection. Fe to me helps create discourse, explore values, beliefs, attitudes, ideas, etc and the ways in which we relate to them, in which they outline who we perceive ourselves to be, map out our own sense of self. Se helps us thaw out, get in the moment, touch, caress, merge, see, scan, feel, warm up, move, flow, etc. just dissolve like in i heart huckabees into a purer almost like religious experience. the context for infj Se is not the same as estp. they have totally different experiences in the same moment. to me i imagine feeling totally alone, but oddly inspired by the huge gap between myself and others if that were the case. tho i'd rather get there riding on teh crest of a wave, sharing, communicating/communing, composing, etc.
 

Sarcasticus

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This sums it up pretty well:



I've known 3 INFJ women very well, and all 3 went for STPs. What I noticed being consistent is that a) they knew the STP for awhile before hand, so trust and safety were first established and b) once that bond is created, they took the INFJ out for 'adventure'.

What qualified as adventure varied, whether it was night clubs and dancing, hiking and nature, or even just going out and about and doing fairly tame things like exploring the city and getting things done.

Thanks, I had a feeling this was where you were headed but I thought you might have also meant they are attracted to artistic talent. Which is of course also true. ;)
 

Ruthie

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Drag an INFJ female off to do something different and fun. Take her out hiking, fishing, skydiving (if you can manage that one). Have a fun time without any expectations. Make it a surprise outing if you wish. But that's only after the INFJ is attracted to you.

That would SO not work for me. Granted, some of the activities you mentioned (hiking, fishing) sound like stuff I would be into (forget the skydiving, though!) and would make for a great date. But the whole concept of building a relationship by trying to get me out of my comfort zone wouldn't work for me. Take camping, for example. I like a lot of outdoor activities, but I don't like the idea of sleeping outside. I can't count the number of people who thought they could change my mind about that - like I'm wearing a "please broaden my horizons" sign on my back. They're the same people who take it as a character flaw if you don't order adventurously at restaurants.

As far as finding Se-type activities, I like doing a lot of things that would qualify (baseball games, fairs/amusement parks, beaches...) I would much rather find something that we BOTH would enjoy doing, rather than have some guy think he's going to be my savior and Show Me The Light with some new activity. Just puts pressure on me to have fun, makes me feel boring if I don't, and makes me resent him for making me feel that way.
 

Udog

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i wonder if infj women have an easier time handling T men. i'm in a relationship with an infj but if she wasn't the feelingist intj in the world i'd lose it. gender roles perhaps, and i'm still way more self-conscious, emotionally reactive, idealistic, and intense than she is. which is weird and at times runs contrary to my expectations.

[...]

i do think Se is huge and gigantic tho in terms of infj expression, extraversion, and connection. Fe to me helps create discourse, explore values, beliefs, attitudes, ideas, etc and the ways in which we relate to them, in which they outline who we perceive ourselves to be, map out our own sense of self. Se helps us thaw out, get in the moment, touch, caress, merge, see, scan, feel, warm up, move, flow, etc. just dissolve like in i heart huckabees into a purer almost like religious experience. the context for infj Se is not the same as estp. they have totally different experiences in the same moment. to me i imagine feeling totally alone, but oddly inspired by the huge gap between myself and others if that were the case. tho i'd rather get there riding on teh crest of a wave, sharing, communicating/communing, composing, etc.

I find NF women are more likely to be drawn to T men in general. (Or at least think they are. ;) ) I've noticed a tendency for F men to be drawn more towards F women, as they want someone as tender or more tender than they are.

The second paragraph I quoted was pretty insightful. Thanks for sharing that.

Thanks, I had a feeling this was where you were headed but I thought you might have also meant they are attracted to artistic talent. Which is of course also true. ;)

Oh yeah, most definitely.

That would SO not work for me. Granted, some of the activities you mentioned (hiking, fishing) sound like stuff I would be into (forget the skydiving, though!) and would make for a great date. But the whole concept of building a relationship by trying to get me out of my comfort zone wouldn't work for me. Take camping, for example. I like a lot of outdoor activities, but I don't like the idea of sleeping outside. I can't count the number of people who thought they could change my mind about that - like I'm wearing a "please broaden my horizons" sign on my back. They're the same people who take it as a character flaw if you don't order adventurously at restaurants.

As far as finding Se-type activities, I like doing a lot of things that would qualify (baseball games, fairs/amusement parks, beaches...) I would much rather find something that we BOTH would enjoy doing, rather than have some guy think he's going to be my savior and Show Me The Light with some new activity. Just puts pressure on me to have fun, makes me feel boring if I don't, and makes me resent him for making me feel that way.

Well, Se is really about taking in external stimulation via the 5 senses - being a part of the physical world. How that fleshes out varies depending on the individual. One of my friends sounded a bit like you, except even amusement parks were too much for her. However, she still did enjoy it when her ISTP took her on road trips "just because", or they'd go to the mall and walk around, run errands together, or just watch TV and comment on the show while they cuddled.
 

Unique

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I recently broke up with an INFJ. I don't know if I would date one again. It was a nice, caring, and emotionally rich relationship, but it was a bit.....*yawn*. I need a challenge or a greater dynamic. I don't think I experienced any growth or learned much in our relationship and that is something I really crave when committing myself to someone. If I can't learn from someone or have my life excited by another I'd rather be single.

Find an ESTP!!
 

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
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That would SO not work for me. Granted, some of the activities you mentioned (hiking, fishing) sound like stuff I would be into (forget the skydiving, though!) and would make for a great date. But the whole concept of building a relationship by trying to get me out of my comfort zone wouldn't work for me. Take camping, for example. I like a lot of outdoor activities, but I don't like the idea of sleeping outside. I can't count the number of people who thought they could change my mind about that - like I'm wearing a "please broaden my horizons" sign on my back. They're the same people who take it as a character flaw if you don't order adventurously at restaurants.

As far as finding Se-type activities, I like doing a lot of things that would qualify (baseball games, fairs/amusement parks, beaches...) I would much rather find something that we BOTH would enjoy doing, rather than have some guy think he's going to be my savior and Show Me The Light with some new activity. Just puts pressure on me to have fun, makes me feel boring if I don't, and makes me resent him for making me feel that way.
I think I should re-empathize my 1st qualifying statement...

Drag an INFJ female off to do something different and fun. Take her out hiking, fishing, skydiving (if you can manage that one). Have a fun time without any expectations. Make it a surprise outing if you wish. But that's only after the INFJ is attracted to you.
People who's trying to drag you off somewhere because they see it as a character flaw to do otherwise doesn't qualify... because they have an expectation of "what's suppose to happen". If somebody you're close to genuinely wanted share an experience with you, just to share it, then it's a different story.

I have a comfort zone too, but it's easier to step out of it if you don't have to worry about meeting expectations. Just having fun doing whatever once in a while. It's a nice break. Obviously being dragged about too often is tiring.

Find an ESTP!!
Most ESTP seems a tad over the top for me. Too much action and not enough contemplation.
 

heart

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I dated an INFJ years ago - the only guy I've ever been in love with. I loved that we didn't have to talk in order to be on the same page, like scary telepathy. But, he was moody - actually, every NFJ I know is moody - and his feelings, though internalized, really seemed to take him over, like he just couldn't handle them sometimes. It was driving my Fi up the wall. I have to say though, the chemistry was insane.

I wonder if INFP's have the advantage over us ENFP's in the sense that they are more their own island, and can retreat within themselves when someone is moody or difficult. ?

Yes, I think so.

Yes, husband can be extremely moody. At times it is like being married to a gothic novel but I always liked gothic novels yet it does drive me crazy...My problem is that I often take his moodiness/withdrawal personally. This is one part of me that drives him crazy. (when he is moody he expects to be super emo and have me remain this cold, detached observer yet at the same time he wants outpourings of sympathy/empathy)

Yes, about the telepathy thing. This was and remains the most attractive part of the relationship. It's magical.

Yes, intense chemistry. (we can also irritate the hell out of each other and have intense arguments so this is a double sided-coin) I am still crazy about him in this way, even when I am mad at him, when he first comes home, there's automatic excitment that he's back around me. I don't start purring and roll in the hallway like the cat does, but inside I feel like it. :blush:

He adores when I am very Ne, it makes him laugh, lightens him up and entertains him---unless he is tired, in which case it drives him crazy because at those times he wants things clear cut, mono and if I am tired too then I get really, really vague and scattered. He takes this personally, as if I were purposely being vague and scattered in my responses to play games with him. (Which I am not it is just that my brain cannot be anything but random at those times) But this is only when we're both tired. There are our most volatile periods. It's kind of like the weather in our relationship---North Central Texas weather I suppose. We try to get better about recognizing when we are both in such a state but it is easy to slip when tired or feeling sick.

There's also a relief that I get so much time to introvert and he understands the need. He understands more than others when I am odd or not graceful socially. All my odd quirkiness is OK. We most often give each other space without distance and this is a great comfort in life.
 

the state i am in

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I would much rather find something that we BOTH would enjoy doing, rather than have some guy think he's going to be my savior and Show Me The Light with some new activity. Just puts pressure on me to have fun, makes me feel boring if I don't, and makes me resent him for making me feel that way.

do you think it is a 6 trait to have a bit of a defiant streak? my intj 6 does, but since you're leaning towards infj for yourself, i'm interested to hear what you would think about being labeled defiant. (ie i get a "don't push me, i'm not your monkey" kind of response if i rib a bit too much)

I find NF women are more likely to be drawn to T men in general. (Or at least think they are. ;) ) I've noticed a tendency for F men to be drawn more towards F women, as they want someone as tender or more tender than they are.

men don't get it (the whole F relating) with other men. so while in terms of a functional life partnership a T woman makes more sense, they want F F F at first bc their experience in teh world with other men is usually a little too stj to get into anything meaningful to them and their sense of themselves and share that with others.

Well, Se is really about taking in external stimulation via the 5 senses - being a part of the physical world. How that fleshes out varies depending on the individual. One of my friends sounded a bit like you, except even amusement parks were too much for her. However, she still did enjoy it when her ISTP took her on road trips "just because", or they'd go to the mall and walk around, run errands together, or just watch TV and comment on the show while they cuddled.

definitely, i wonder if there is a gender difference too. part of using Se for inj types is letting down your guard. Ni is wary much of the time, defensive, preparing for negative possibilities (as is Si). it can be a bit paranoid. Se feels so light and free, being in the moment, etc. plus the difference, teh uniqueness of experience, texture, colour, taste, etc that you get from sensory information stimulates our imagination. sometimes we lose all sense of taste, so vibrancy is literally a breath of fresh air.

Most ESTP seems a tad over the top for me. Too much action and not enough contemplation.

definitely. they also rarely show their own vulnerabilities or allow themselves to connect in an emotionally honest way.
 

Unique

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Most ESTP seems a tad over the top for me. Too much action and not enough contemplation.

Was sorta talking a bit more to the INFP... they aren't so... lets plan things
here have a hug anyway :hug:

I don't believe I've ever dated or been close friends with an ESTP hmmm...

Oh right, usually works pretty well, I'm almost with an INFP :) and have 2 INFP close friends

We're usually the one craving to do something amazing but don't have the crazy idea yet, come give us one! lol

Mmm well, maybe one will talk to you soon! Or better yet, go find one! haha :D

definitely. they also rarely show their own vulnerabilities or allow themselves to connect in an emotionally honest way.

emotional connectivity? you looking for a girlfriend or a man? lol seriously though I think T/T or F/F is usually in the case of Ts too standoffish and in the case of Fs too overwhelming

I'd hate to be an F guy tbh, they don't really fit in as well
 

Unique

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how unique. ;)

I seem to have replaced Fe on my function order with Fi

So yes, very unique ;p

I'm more talking about those dominant Fe guys they can sometimes have a hard time

There's unique and then there is strange... haha

I have an ENFJ mate thats a cool cat though
 

Ruthie

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do you think it is a 6 trait to have a bit of a defiant streak? my intj 6 does, but since you're leaning towards infj for yourself, i'm interested to hear what you would think about being labeled defiant. (ie i get a "don't push me, i'm not your monkey" kind of response if i rib a bit too much)

Oh yeah. I have a defiant streak. And thanks, by the way, for reducing my desire to not play the Student role in my relationships to said "defiant streak." :)
 

Udog

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men don't get it (the whole F relating) with other men. so while in terms of a functional life partnership a T woman makes more sense, they want F F F at first bc their experience in teh world with other men is usually a little too stj to get into anything meaningful to them and their sense of themselves and share that with others.

That's a damn good point.
 

the state i am in

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Oh yeah. I have a defiant streak. And thanks, by the way, for reducing my desire to not play the Student role in my relationships to said "defiant streak." :)

i like what you just did right there. :)

i'm curious tho what this is like for an inj 6. the idea of being toyed with is awful for any Ni dom type. i think part of it is a combination of Ni turning over the situation and like having a specific program running in the background finding things that could be a threat to their autonomy, security, and sense of predictability. i assumed Te was much more aggressive than Fe, but maybe it has more to do with the 6?

so where does the specific 6 motivation come into play to turn it into defiance? for me, i'll just stare someone down, kinda give 'em the glaring cold Ti intp-like intensity and just walk away. a kind of fuck you, i'm done with you kind of thing/statement. but that's the 5 talking. what registers for 6s and how do you describe the attitudes you get in the moment?
 
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