[INFP] INFPs, Values, and Conflict

[mgbradsh]

I've been reading a book lately called It's All Your Fault about High Conflict Personalities and how to deal with them.

I feel like I'm sort of a magnet for those personalities. I wonder if other INFPs are too. I think there are parts of our personality that are attractive to people with High Conflict Personality traits. I think we're generally kind and relatively submissive and aren't seen as a threat to people that see threats everywhere.

I've found they like me until those same personality cross my personal value system and I feel I have to defend that. It often makes me a target for those people. I'd prefer not to be, but my values are sacrosanct to me and when they are stressed I really feel like I have to act. It goes against my more passive nature, but it just kind of happens. Often times it's triggers my fight or flight response and I'll try and get away, but I can't always.

Do other INFPs have any experiences like this? How do you deal with High Conflict Personalities? What if you aren't able to escape them? How do you handle it? What about just regular value conflicts? Not necessarily just extreme cases? Do you prefer to let it go or do you feel the need to defend your values too?

 

[Luminous]

How does a high conflict personality differ from regular, everyday conflict? I assume they're basically about conflict to the exclusion of all else? Does that include drama, and unloading all their emotional burdens on you, without regard for you?

I think I'm more introverted than you, and interact with people less, so that saves me some (okay, a lot) of grief. I suspect my father might be a higher conflict person (I am not sure, since I don't yet know how this is defined) and when I was living with my parents, I got into conflict in the form of disagreements with him. After enough times, it became clear that my disagreeing with him, even if I got him to agree on important points, wasn't actually going to change his mind, and I started avoiding the topics we had conflict over. They are values based, but I am not going to get anywhere with it, and at the time, I had to be there, so what's better? Focus on other things or waste time and energy and emotions arguing?

In regards to people who bring me their drama with little regard for me... if I don't have the energy, I try to avoid. If I can't, I try to be helpful. If I lose patience, I lose patience and either am more abrasive than usual, which I'm sure surprises them, or just go cold and unresponsive.

 

[Stanton Moore]

I used to attract these types, but I developed a more opaque look on my face, and it deters them... mostly.
A co-worker tried to bully me a few months ago, but I told him off. Now he seems afraid of me, which is fine with me.

 

[Lark]

What is meant by high conflict personalities in this context? Is it people who have a high propensity to engage in conflict?

I'm asking because when I hear people say "conflicted" or "conflictual" I still tend to think of it in terms of Karen Horney and other psycho-analysts ideas about psycho-dynamics, ie a tripartite (freud), mandela (jung) unconscious in conflict.

 

[mgbradsh]

The book talks about 4 kinds of High Conflict Personalities stemming from traits that may or may not fit a diagnosis of Narcissism, Antisocial, Histrionic, or Borderline Personality Disorders. The person may have those disorders, or not, but they exhibit at least some of the traits, especially as it relates to conflicts. They are more likely to be in conflicts and escalate them due to their fears of being wrong, abandoned, attacked, etc. It could be a coworker, parent, neighbour, friend, anyone in your life. Maybe they aren't in conflict with you, but you see them in conflict with other people quite often.

How does a high conflict personality differ from regular, everyday conflict? I assume they're basically about conflict to the exclusion of all else? Does that include drama, and unloading all their emotional burdens on you, without regard for you?

I think I'm more introverted than you, and interact with people less, so that saves me some (okay, a lot) of grief. I suspect my father might be a higher conflict person (I am not sure, since I don't yet know how this is defined) and when I was living with my parents, I got into conflict in the form of disagreements with him. After enough times, it became clear that my disagreeing with him, even if I got him to agree on important points, wasn't actually going to change his mind, and I started avoiding the topics we had conflict over. They are values based, but I am not going to get anywhere with it, and at the time, I had to be there, so what's better? Focus on other things or waste time and energy and emotions arguing?

In regards to people who bring me their drama with little regard for me... if I don't have the energy, I try to avoid. If I can't, I try to be helpful. If I lose patience, I lose patience and either am more abrasive than usual, which I'm sure surprises them, or just go cold and unresponsive.

It can include drama and emotional dumping, but the without regards part is probably key.

The disagreements with your father probably describe it well. I really know what you mean about doing your best to avoid conflict too. I certainly have moments of being actively in conflict (okay, a lot), but it's not a state I seek.

I'll give you an example. I have a coworker and she is just horrible to our staff. I'd love to quit the job and get away from her, but I can't. I can't really punish her either and she can't be fired. It's almost impossible to even reason with her. So, I'm stuck in this situation that has become an ever escalating conflict. It's really challenging to watch her belittle and humiliate people and not do anything about it. It puts me in a state of inner strife which is even more difficult to deal with.

I think being cold or abrasive are fair ways of dealing with people like this. How do you handle it if they escalate? Can that trigger them to escalate and target you?

How are you helpful? One of the suggestions in the book is to be more empathetic. Do you find that easy works?

 

[Maou]

There are many emotionally starving people out there, that seek human contact from anyone willing to give. Perhaps feeling types have more patience and lenience for such people. Resulting in attracting them so. I don't think it is exclusive to a type, but more through people who are empathetic and understanding. Who are open minded and patient. A large majority of the world contains people who are not doing well. It is no surprise these people appear to anyone willing to listen. The exorcise of boundaries is very important, for all types and people. Lest they be consumed by the very thing they wish to help.

 

[mgbradsh]

There are many emotionally starving people out there, that seek human contact from anyone willing to give. Perhaps feeling types have more patience and lenience for such people. Resulting in attracting them so. I don't think it is exclusive to a type, but more through people who are empathetic and understanding. Who are open minded and patient. A large majority of the world contains people who are not doing well. It is no surprise these people appear to anyone willing to listen. The exorcise of boundaries is very important, for all types and people. Lest they be consumed by the very thing they wish to help.

I'd agree with that.

The interesting part (for me) with INFPs is that we have a really strong inner value system and those values being crossed are one of the things that might spur a normally quiet, internally focused INFP to come out of their shell.

I guess it boils down to how much inner strife is an INFP willing to handle at the risk of entering into external strife? I know for me I'm not exactly sure where that line is sometimes.

 

[Zhaylin]

I've been reading a book lately called It's All Your Fault about High Conflict Personalities and how to deal with them.

I feel like I'm sort of a magnet for those personalities. I wonder if other INFPs are too. I think there are parts of our personality that are attractive to people with High Conflict Personality traits. I think we're generally kind and relatively submissive and aren't seen as a threat to people that see threats everywhere.

I've found they like me until those same personality cross my personal value system and I feel I have to defend that. It often makes me a target for those people. I'd prefer not to be, but my values are sacrosanct to me and when they are stressed I really feel like I have to act. It goes against my more passive nature, but it just kind of happens. Often times it's triggers my fight or flight response and I'll try and get away, but I can't always.

Do other INFPs have any experiences like this? How do you deal with High Conflict Personalities? What if you aren't able to escape them? How do you handle it? What about just regular value conflicts? Not necessarily just extreme cases? Do you prefer to let it go or do you feel the need to defend your values too?

I'm not sure. Growing up was absolute hell. One of my earliest memories was being stuck in the bathtub with my little brother because my parents were going at it. Turned out, my mom threw a knife at my dad because he hung up the phone on her while she was talking to her mom.
We were living on a Navy Base in Puerto Rico and I dragged them to church after that lol. They made a real effort and it was never as bad as it was then.
But it was still miserable.

When we moved back stateside, they still verbally thrashed each other. My dad would call my mom a fat cow, she would cry then yell "Go back to work, Harry! You make us miserable!" or "Nobody wants you here!"

My dad [step], was really hard on my younger brother. Constant arguments, belittlements, a few thrashings. My mom belittled me, his "perfect little angel, who can do no wrong" (said with seething venom).
They weren't malicious, just ignorant and overwhelmed (though, when I hit my teens it felt like more than maliciousness!).

They taught me escape through isolation and flights of fancy. They also taught me how to "read" people and how NOT to act or think or be.
At one of the worst times, I actually ran away from home, at around 13 for 10 days. I built myself a lean-to in some woods and I loved almost every minute of it.
I ran away for the second and last time when I was 17. It was only for 5 or 7 days though.

My ex-husband wasn't nice, but he had no ill intent. We were just young.
Other than that, I seem to attract protectors for the most part. Of course, there are those who need to dump on me and I let them within reason.

I moved from Florida (parents) to WV (birthplace/grandmother) and my relationship with them couldn't be better
I tend to only talk to my mom a couple/few times a year. We see each other for a day or 2 every other year or so. I'm in a blessed position in being able to isolate myself. I don't have to work. Only my kids and my husband pull me away from myself unless I want decide to do otherwise.

I wouldn't be able to cope with chronic workplace drama or outright bullying. If my hands were absolutely tied and I couldn't confront the bully, I would shield her prey as much as I could (and more than I could tolerate in the long run).

It seems like an impossible position to be in.

 

[Coriolis]

I've been reading a book lately called It's All Your Fault about High Conflict Personalities and how to deal with them.

I feel like I'm sort of a magnet for those personalities. I wonder if other INFPs are too. I think there are parts of our personality that are attractive to people with High Conflict Personality traits. I think we're generally kind and relatively submissive and aren't seen as a threat to people that see threats everywhere.

I've found they like me until those same personality cross my personal value system and I feel I have to defend that. It often makes me a target for those people. I'd prefer not to be, but my values are sacrosanct to me and when they are stressed I really feel like I have to act. It goes against my more passive nature, but it just kind of happens. Often times it's triggers my fight or flight response and I'll try and get away, but I can't always.

INFPs are generally kind and can appear submissive, but in my experience, they have a core of values that is tough as nails, or mithril, as others have said. They can tolerate alot, but violate that, and you have touched the third rail. The resulting anger is often quite justified. Indeed, it can be necessary for self-preservation, as long as it can be adequately controlled.

 

[mgbradsh]

INFPs are generally kind and can appear submissive, but in my experience, they have a core of values that is tough as nails, or mithril, as others have said. They can tolerate alot, but violate that, and you have touched the third rail. The resulting anger is often quite justified. Indeed, it can be necessary for self-preservation, as long as it can be adequately controlled.

I would agree with all of that. I would say the struggle comes (for me) when weighing the intensity of reactions to violations and when and where it’s appropriate.

I was driving with a friend last weekend (his truck) and a news story came on the radio about the mosque incident in New Zealand. Out of nowhere he commented how the news coverage is biased towards Muslims and against Christians (he’s not religious, just racist, apparently). It’s a third rail for me and I was really torn between just opening the door and rolling out of his truck or not saying anything. I ended up just dropping it (I’m still very annoyed), but it’s taking a lot. I would prefer not to be in conflict with this person, but it’s a struggle to not defend my values.

I think as I’ve gotten older and experienced many reactions those choices have gotten easier to make, or maybe I’m better at making them in a way that protects my values, but it’s still difficult.

 

[Sacrophagus]

I've found they like me until those same personality cross my personal value system and I feel I have to defend that. It often makes me a target for those people. I'd prefer not to be, but my values are sacrosanct to me and when they are stressed I really feel like I have to act. It goes against my more passive nature, but it just kind of happens. Often times it's triggers my fight or flight response and I'll try and get away, but I can't always.

The reason why I really like NFPs in the workplace is because they don't follow leadership when it conflicts with their values, no matter how profitable it is for them. They can try to keep low profile or be sympathetic with histrionic or narcisstic leadership, but when the goals or behaviors of the organisation do not align with their values at all and start to make no sense, NFPs don't care about avoiding conflict anymore, especially if their patience is taken for granted.


I think the matter that could turn into an issue for some NFPs is their inability to set boundaries from the beginning.

 

[Earl Grey]

The reason why I really like NFPs in the workplace is because they don't follow leadership when it conflicts with their values, no matter how profitable it is for them. They can try to keep profile or be sympathetic with histrionic or narcisstic leadership, but when the goals or behaviors of the organisation do not align with their values at all and start to make no sense, NFPs don't care about avoiding conflict anymore, especially if their patience is taken for granted.

I think the matter that could turn into an issue for some NFPs is their inability to set boundaries from the beginning.

This a thousand times. Actually, if they are a piece of shit, forget profits, forget peace, you have to show them you see them for the shitstick they are and take none of their crap, and I can go on except I may actually devolve into a very angry antagonistic wall of text. People in a corporate setting are lucky they got laws keeping them safe where they are.

EDIT: Oya, NFPs, NFJs, actually, Fs in general, why do you have issues setting boundaries? It's simple; they don't see you as human. They don't care about your boundaries. How you should react here is an obvious mathematical equation. Come on.

 

[Earl Grey]

Do other INFPs have any experiences like this?
Yes.

How do you deal with High Conflict Personalities?
Do no harm, but take no shit. If you take harm, give harm. Show them you aren't taking their BS.

What if you aren't able to escape them?
Show them you aren't taking their BS. There is a corporate level of formality, and there is a societal level of conformity, but at the core, let them you know don't value them, you don't respect them, you don't listen to them. Keep things professional. You don't have to like your boss to finish your tasks, same way you still do need to do the dishes for the simple fact that an orderly house is important to maintain for hygiene and systemic functioning regardless of if the people you live with- family, spouse, ordered you to. A thousand times over, keep things professional. It's possible, do it.

How do you handle it?
Depends on what they do. If we can come to an enforced, cordial, professional agreement I can tolerate them. Make sure they are enforced. Get the hell away as soon as you can if not.

What about just regular value conflicts?
Deal with them as you do any other regular value conflicts, however you go about it.

Not necessarily just extreme cases? Do you prefer to let it go or do you feel the need to defend your values too?
Don't. Let. It. Go. Or well at least, that's just me.

 

[notmyapples]

I don't experience this too often, I find that I view myself as more cowardly than others would describe me. I am prone to attracting people of this type because I appear laid-back from afar but I start pushing hard when I feel like I'm not being treated fairly, so it rarely prolongs after a couple big blowouts. I have a far harder time setting boundaries with people close to me who aren't stepping over them on purpose, so I feel intense guilt when I am forced to communicate that I'm not okay with certain behaviors. Usually I don't communicate at all and the problem festers. But I have no issues with putting high-conflict people in their place because I view their actions as intentionally derogatory and disconcerting not just to me but others as well. I've actually had high-conflict people describe me as being the problematic one for not putting up with them which is incredibly ironic given my temperament.

 

[Population: 1]

They’re essentially bullies.

I used to get targeted by these types, especially in school. I learned to face aggression with aggression. They want a conflict- give them one. It seems a lot of the time they are testing your defenses, probing for weaknesses and striking if they feel they can do so and face little resistance in the process. Some people are just twisted and want to see how far they can push you.

It can be a tricky business assessing which of these people is mostly bluster and who’s a serious threat but you can gain a good sense for the type you’re dealing with after awhile. Pick the wrong tactic with the wrong one and it may lead to a messy altercation, but a lot of people are just hot air.

I’ve tried the gentle approach and kindness is weakness to super aggressive people. So give them hell.

 

[Earl Grey]

I feel like I'm sort of a magnet for those personalities. I wonder if other INFPs are too.

I think there are parts of our personality that are attractive to people with High Conflict Personality traits. I think we're generally kind and relatively submissive and aren't seen as a threat to people that see threats everywhere. I've found they like me until those same personality cross my personal value system and I feel I have to defend that. It often makes me a target for those people. I'd prefer not to be, but my values are sacrosanct to me and when they are stressed I really feel like I have to act. It goes against my more passive nature, but it just kind of happens. Often times it's triggers my fight or flight response and I'll try and get away, but I can't always.

Personally, I am a magnet in general, in the sense I get told I am likeable and get along with everyone, but for the simple fact I am polite, cordial, and inclusive (anything any personality type can do), and not because I go out my way based off some sort of ideal of how I shouldn't act, to keep peace, etc. People conflate the two; "IX is polite and nice, so I guess he is also patient not confrontational!" WRONG. I don't tiptoe, if I don't like you, you will hella know. Done. Especially on a more personal level/setting, you don't have to have stepped on me first.

I think being cold or abrasive are fair ways of dealing with people like this. How do you handle it if they escalate? Can that trigger them to escalate and target you?

How are you helpful? One of the suggestions in the book is to be more empathetic. Do you find that easy works?

Keep it professional, do what you have to do and not beyond, defend your stance, defend your space. That is completely, entirely fair. Personally, being more empathetic is hard as hell and I have no patience for that and high-conflict persons asking me for that can begone. And yes, they may escalate, because they are a mixture of both entitlement and an astronomical degree of idiocy. Prepare to take them when they do. Actually, it's easier in an office because if they do anything outrageous, it easily sabotages their own career and standing. Do your own thing, watch them self-destruct. Having an agreement imposed with clear reasons why and what you would do if they were violated (from either side) makes the handling easier, but again, they are mostly entitled idiots; avoid when possible.

---

There are many emotionally starving people out there, that seek human contact from anyone willing to give.

Yes, emotionally starving people not entitled to be fed. That's their issue, and they have the freedom to starve themselves to death.

Perhaps feeling types have more patience and lenience for such people. Resulting in attracting them so. I don't think it is exclusive to a type, but more through people who are empathetic and understanding. Who are open minded and patient. A large majority of the world contains people who are not doing well. It is no surprise these people appear to anyone willing to listen. The exorcise of boundaries is very important, for all types and people. Lest they be consumed by the very thing they wish to help.

"Perhaps feeling types have more patience and lenience for such people" WRONG. Okay, maybe stereotypically yes. But stereotypes are dumb.

"I don't think it is exclusive to a type, but more through people who are empathetic and understanding" bingo!

"Who are open minded and patient" Wrong again, you can be open-minded and not an idiot. If you are 'open minded' to the point of over-accommodating the other individual, you are not open-minded. You are a slave to what people want and prefer you to be; nice, nonconfrontational. I don't care how martyring and accepting and self-sacrificial you are being. Wake up and stop glorifying and giving yourself a medal how much of a pushover doormat you can be, that's not cool at all. Being nice is so overrated. You're just using it as an excuse to keep trying to keep to peace because you are too pathetic to see a monster where there is one much less fight them, whatever your type is.

 

[Earl Grey]

They’re essentially bullies.

I used to get targeted by these types, especially in school. I learned to face aggression with aggression. They want a conflict- give them one. It seems a lot of the time they are testing your defenses, probing for weaknesses and striking if they feel they can do so and face little resistance in the process. Some people are just twisted and want to see how far they can push you.

It can be a tricky business assessing which of these people is mostly bluster and who’s a serious threat but you can gain a good sense for the type you’re dealing with after awhile. Pick the wrong tactic with the wrong one and it may lead to a messy altercation, but a lot of people are just hot air.

I’ve tried the gentle approach and kindness is weakness to super aggressive people. So give them hell.

Seconded. Something I found on the internet years ago that is relevant;

"Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority”. And sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person. And they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay."

There is respect to convention, structure, duty, authority. Then there is respect towards a person. Don't let the line blur, respect yourself.

 

[Earl Grey]

On another note; I held my tongue and kept my temper! I am going to give myself a medal and skeedaddle from this thread all proud.

 

[LucieCat]

I'm an ENFP, but I've noticed that for NFPs in general, once you violate a core value, they often mentally check it in a way. It seems to be a reaction of "go on the offense" mixed with "get out of here as soon as possible."

I think it also just also deals with the person's background and how good they are at establishing boundaries. F types as a whole can really struggle with this. I'm not sure why though. Sometimes for Fi, the boundaries that need established are "What's going to impact me on a deep, emotional level?" I have lacked these boundaries at times myself, and I've noticed it in other NFPs as well.

For instance, an INFP friend of mine strongly dislikes when someone criticizes anyone else for something the recipient happens to enjoy. I find that he needs to set boundaries to find which of these instances are worth getting worked up about. Part of this seems to tie in to his childhood with a father who seems to be extremely insensitive and prone to viciously mocking people. Though, I sometimes find his reactions to this are too strong. He will literally shut down, become hostile, and enter a depressive funk because of comments that might not even really be serious or are directed at no one and really don't harm anyone else.

Once my friend seemed to almost have a panic attack on the spot when he realized that his dad would likely be unwarrantedly harsh and critical of my political opinions. Nothing even had to be said by anyone that was negative. Remembering a past comment was basically at fault. I just kind of shrugged and said, "Well if he thinks I'm a bad person because my skepticism and mistrust of government gives me libertarian leanings, then he can shove his opinion where the sun doesn't shine." My response seemed to make it better.

Boundaries are really the key for any type dealing with people like this. Sometimes, I've learned that the people just are not worth having in my life. A cousin comes to mind who is extremely two-faced. She's not done anything to me personally, but she has demonstrated herself to be cruel, greedy, abusive, deficient in empathy, and plain mean. So, I won't even give her the time of day to tell her I don't want a relationship. (I've essentially mentally disowned nearly an entire side of my extended family for reasons related to this. This is the most severe case though).

The problem is that boundaries with these types of people in their family can be really hard to set. Society seems to say, "But they're you're family, you just can't close them off." My response is, watch me. I can come across as rather crass and cold for this, but I don't do it lightly.

Setying boundaries with toxic people doesn't always mean blocking them out entirely. But sometimes it does warrant it.

 

[Luminous]

I'll give you an example. I have a coworker and she is just horrible to our staff. I'd love to quit the job and get away from her, but I can't. I can't really punish her either and she can't be fired. It's almost impossible to even reason with her. So, I'm stuck in this situation that has become an ever escalating conflict. It's really challenging to watch her belittle and humiliate people and not do anything about it. It puts me in a state of inner strife which is even more difficult to deal with.

I think being cold or abrasive are fair ways of dealing with people like this. How do you handle it if they escalate? Can that trigger them to escalate and target you?

How are you helpful? One of the suggestions in the book is to be more empathetic. Do you find that easy works?

Honestly, if that were my coworker I would have a very difficult time holding my tongue too. And it's likely, depending on the level of her ill behavior, that I would try to complain to someone higher up, or institute rules to force her to change her behavior. One area where I have a more difficult time controlling my anger is when someone I care about is mistreated. So it's also likely that at some point, I wouldn't be able to control myself and there would be an ugly scene.

I've been lucky and escalations haven't happened that often for me. I think I've mostly just retreated harder when it's seemed to escalate. Gotten less responsive. Become a wall to them. Disappeared. Or gone to a higher up.

Interesting that one of the suggestions is to be more empathetic. I'm assuming it's largely saying to just make the other person feel heard? I think that's likely to be helpful if that's all they really want. If they want power over others, I don't think it's going to help that much...

The interesting part (for me) with INFPs is that we have a really strong inner value system and those values being crossed are one of the things that might spur a normally quiet, internally focused INFP to come out of their shell.

I guess it boils down to how much inner strife is an INFP willing to handle at the risk of entering into external strife? I know for me I'm not exactly sure where that line is sometimes.

I remember reading somewhere that Fi had to take each situation individually to judge it, and I thought that made a lot of sense, and it's why it can be so stressful and time consuming. (I think it might have been Ixaerus who said it somewhere.)

Seconded. Something I found on the internet years ago that is relevant;

"Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority”. And sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person. And they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay."

There is respect to convention, structure, duty, authority. Then there is respect towards a person. Don't let the line blur, respect yourself.

I really like that quote. Thanks for sharing it.