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  1. #62871

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    T-G-I-bloody-F.
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  2. #62872
    Sweet Summer Child Yama's Avatar
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    It said my signature was too long because of all the names I had in my signature of my "forum relationships" so I just turned it into an image and threw it in a spoiler tag lmao
    Yama, Member of the Year 2017, The Most Liked Member, The Receiver of 10,000 Likes, First of His Name, The Unburnt, King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, King of Meereen, Khal of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lord Regnant of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains, and Father of Dragons.

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    Hurr asynartetic's Avatar
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    How is 47% a majority? That's a fucking plurality (a large plurality, and still not a majority). It annoys me when writers and editors makes these sort of mistakes. This probably should have gone in the rant thread.
    I hate to make excuses for my assholery, but I'm on the spectrum, so if I insult you, it most likely wasn't intentional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anaximander View Post
    How is 47% a majority? That's a fucking plurality (a large plurality, and still not a majority). It annoys me when writers and editors makes these sort of mistakes. This probably should have gone in the rant thread.
    Were they British? They use the term a bit differently.

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    Hurr asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Were they British? They use the term a bit differently.
    Not sure, but the article was about an American primary election. Let me find that link.
    I hate to make excuses for my assholery, but I'm on the spectrum, so if I insult you, it most likely wasn't intentional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anaximander View Post
    Not sure, but the article was about an American primary election. Let me find that link.
    I think that's enough to justify your complaint. Maybe not if it's aimed at a UK audience.
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  7. #62877
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I think I've just summarized an important tension in the human condition.

    It borders tautological to say that if there is such a thing as morality, then there is a moral imperative to do the right thing. The good of the world depends on people trying to do be right, and do the right thing.

    But people who think they are doing the right thing seem to have a greatly enhanced tendency to become ignorant assholes.

    People who are ignorant assholes are rather impaired at doing the right thing.

    But, of course, you can't avoid this problem by avoiding trying to do the right thing, because then you mostly like won't (the biggest factor in getting something done is trying). If that's the route you go, then you're just a lazy, cowardly, and unimaginative person who's forfeiting any chance to contribute to humanity so you can save face and keep your hands clean.

    So we're all obligated to walk this tight rope. To try to be right, and do right, without letting it turn ourselves into ignorant assholes. It's tough.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I think I've just summarized an important tension in the human condition.

    It borders tautological to say that if there is such a thing as morality, then there is a moral imperative to do the right thing. The good of the world depends on people trying to do be right, and do the right thing.

    But people who think they are doing the right thing seem to have a greatly enhanced tendency to become ignorant assholes.

    People who are ignorant assholes are rather impaired at doing the right thing.

    But, of course, you can't avoid this problem by avoiding trying to do the right thing, because then you mostly like won't (the biggest factor in getting something done is trying). If that's the route you go, then you're just a lazy, cowardly, and unimaginative person who's forfeiting any chance to contribute to humanity so you can save face and keep your hands clean.

    So we're all obligated to walk this tight rope. To try to be right, and do right, without letting it turn ourselves into ignorant assholes. It's tough.
    Morality is not monolithic. Moral dilemmas exist for this very reason: one is forced to weigh one good vs another. More specifically, there is much more to morality than being good and kind and fair, or "contributing to humanity" as you might put it. It is very possible that those to whom you would ascribe the phrase "ignorant asshole" are following a part of morality of which you are ignorant, and just because they aren't doing that small subset of things that you describe as moral, you believe that they are essentially immoral.

    Your perspective would appear to derive from Kant's, so it has a strong pedigree, but Kant's approach is inherently flawed, as he reasons in terms of having an overall abstract monolithic morality, as opposed to how humans actually live and express their morality. Morality doesn't derive from reason; the reverse would in fact appear to be closer to the truth.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I think I've just summarized an important tension in the human condition.

    It borders tautological to say that if there is such a thing as morality, then there is a moral imperative to do the right thing. The good of the world depends on people trying to do be right, and do the right thing.

    But people who think they are doing the right thing seem to have a greatly enhanced tendency to become ignorant assholes.

    People who are ignorant assholes are rather impaired at doing the right thing.

    But, of course, you can't avoid this problem by avoiding trying to do the right thing, because then you mostly like won't (the biggest factor in getting something done is trying). If that's the route you go, then you're just a lazy, cowardly, and unimaginative person who's forfeiting any chance to contribute to humanity so you can save face and keep your hands clean.

    So we're all obligated to walk this tight rope. To try to be right, and do right, without letting it turn ourselves into ignorant assholes. It's tough.
    There's probably a name for this specific bias, but it's basically a subset of the overconfidence cognitive bias. If you start to think you're really intelligence you become less critical of your thoughts and thus less intelligent, and if you start to think you're very virtuous you become less critical of your behavior.

    The amount of "I'm rational, therefore what I'm claiming is rational" I see is immense, especially the type where people use superficial associations with rationality, like flat affect, to boost that sense that they're rational. I think people do similar a similar things with virtue signaling and get a false sense of reward for being virtuous out of it.

    Obviously I now have to own up to doing all these things otherwise I start to look stupid and immoral

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Morality is not monolithic.
    I'm pretty sure he's talking relatively. Someone becomes an ignorant asshole by their own standards, or whatever group standards they're trying to follow. It works on any scale.

    At least his point works relatively, even if he didn't mean it that way.
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    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    There's probably a name for this specific bias, but it's basically a subset of the overconfidence cognitive bias. If you start to think you're really intelligence you become less critical of your thoughts and thus less intelligent, and if you start to think you're very virtuous you become less critical of your behavior.

    The amount of "I'm rational, therefore what I'm claiming is rational" I see is immense, especially the type where people use superficial associations with rationality, like flat affect, to boost that sense that they're rational. I think people do similar a similar things with virtue signaling and get a false sense of reward for being virtuous out of it.

    Obviously I now have to own up to doing all these things otherwise I start to look stupid and immoral
    Yes, I think you're right. It is something like that. After thinking of this, I kind of moved on to wondering how that state of self-righteousness emerges. This process requires that one identifies themselves as doing or being right. One does not necessarily assume that they are what they want to be, or that they succeed at what they are trying to do, so merely aspiring to rightness wouldn't necessarily make someone think they are. Presumably, the factors involved are numerous and it would be pretty hard to work out.


    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    I'm pretty sure he's talking relatively. Someone becomes an ignorant asshole by their own standards, or whatever group standards they're trying to follow. It works on any scale.

    At least his point works relatively, even if he didn't mean it that way.

    I'm glad you said this. It is a part of what I was going to say to @uumlau. I think this will hold true pretty much regardless of what you believe is moral. The first part is, like I said, practically a tautology. The second point is that self-righteousness basically impairs, as erm was saying, meta-cognitive abilities. I think when people get the idea they are in the right, it's kind of like a mandate to do what they are doing. What they are doing is good, what poses an obstacle to what they are doing is bad. One thing that would be an obstacle, is a person trying to inform you that you are mistaken. So that person's commentary will be rejected. And I think it suffices to say that no matter what you think is good, your ability be good (or good at any thing for that matter) is impaired by a refusal to process input. No matter what you think is good, if you already think you're doing it, and process no further information on what you are doing, it's going to limit your capacity to do it.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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